7 ms·

If there's a demand for certain roles, which clearly seems to be the case, what difference does it make where the people filling those roles comes from?

fallingknife 4y ago
Well, I would prefer them to come from the US instead of allowing companies to import cheaper workers from abroad.
- sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
  Why is that?
  - jaywalk 4y ago
    The US government is supposed to first and foremost take care of US citizens, not just allow them to be pushed out of jobs because corporations would rather import cheap labor.
    - sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
      I agree with that. Do you agree that should be weighted by the need of the country to remain competitive, say in the hypothetically scenario where we came to the conclusion that the average american is lazy, and that that's the core reason why immigrants replace them?
      - jaywalk 4y ago
        The entire reason we have this system is so that the country can remain competitive, which is an important and valid reason. But it was never meant to be what it has become, which is just a way to import cheap labor. It needs to get back to what it was supposed to be, which is a way to bring in highly-skilled labor that simply can't be found in the US, at the same pay US citizens would receive.
        sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
        You have it backwards. Not importing cheaper labor would make it less competitive.
      - meowtimemania 4y ago
        The country shouldn’t act in the interests of the “country” but rather in the interests of its citizens. “Replacing” the citizens (sounds a little genocidal) is not in the citizens best interests.
    - mtoner23 4y ago
      Yes but these people and their children could also be US citizens why should they not be prioritized?
      - jaywalk 4y ago
        I'm not understanding how people imported from abroad could be US citizens.
    - tarentel 4y ago
      I agree with your first statement. I've never felt threatened by imported cheap labor in my role though. I think our immigration laws should protect US citizens but what they seem to be doing is allowing companies to hire people for cheap but not giving a very good path for those people to become US citizens even though they're contributing to US companies and the US economy as a whole. If you're worried about losing your job to cheap labor that's an issue with our immigration system not a problem with immigration in general. You should be asking yourself why companies are allowed to pay non-US citizens less for the same jobs we're doing.
      - jaywalk 4y ago
        I, personally, have zero fear of being replaced by cheap labor. I've climbed high enough in what I do and I know how valuable my skillset is. But I see it all over the place, and it still concerns me. > You should be asking yourself why companies are allowed to pay non-US citizens less for the same jobs we're doing. I would ask myself this, but I know the answer. It's because these companies have our lawmakers in their pockets. That is the problem that really needs to be solved, which would take care of this and many other issues.
    - zamalek 4y ago
      Oh, this tired talking point. In the tech labor market (as per the post) the labor simply isn't available. We don't generally see American software engineers languishing and unable to find jobs. I guarantee that the like of Microsystems, Google, and Amazon were not paying the poster a pittance.
      - illplaythatgame 4y ago
        Not sure who you hang out with, but black, hispanic, and latino US citizens have a very hard time getting jobs despite having software engineering degrees. They end up in GS-5 equivalent military tech "careers" or crappy geek squad jobs.
        renewiltord 4y ago
        If you have friends in each of these categories who are skilled, I’ll interview them. Job is onsite in San Francisco. Interview is leetcode style plus software design. Since it isn’t based primarily on past experience, it won’t matter that they haven’t had opportunity if they do have the skills. I’m in HFT. Only hire people I’d consider capable and I’m comfortable with our interview process. If they knock the interview off the hook they’ll be in. Let me know.
        nebula8804 4y ago
        Nobody wants to work for your crappy startup. What you are asking for requires a lot of sacrifice and investment (living in an overpriced dump called SF, leetcode interviews, dealing with people like you) for not enough benefits hence thats why you rely on outside "help".
        zamalek 4y ago
        > Nobody wants to work for your crappy startup. I rest my case.
        nebula8804 4y ago
jaywalk 4y ago
I'll flip your question on its head: why are the people filling these roles so heavily skewed to one country?
- d3nj4l 4y ago
  Let me flip your question too: why do you think it matters?
  - jaywalk 4y ago
    Because all else being equal, that skew shouldn't exist. There is nothing inherent to Indian people (or any other people) making them better at these jobs, so there is value to understanding why their numbers are so high. And by value, I mean value to US citizens. It could show us how we can improve within the country, or it could expose fraud in the system. Or a mix of both.
    - enriquec 4y ago
      This is just obviously and factually wrong. Even average age differs greatly between countries. Why would they have the same degrees/skills/value? You just want to chop down the forest because trees are different heights - you're optimizing for nothing based on nothing.
    - codegeek 4y ago
      So what about Basketball ? Should there be more whites ? Is that skewed by design ? Have you ever thought about the various factors behind why a certain group dominates certain fields or you just think it is unfair and on purpose ?
      - jaywalk 4y ago
        It's funny that you bring up sports, because one of the hot topics in the sports world right now is that there should be less whites in many positions, from coaching to ownership. It's supposed to be accepted as fact that if there are a lot of non-whites somewhere, it's simply because they're better. But if there are a lot of whites somewhere, it's because of racism.

fallingknife 4y ago

Well, I would prefer them to come from the US instead of allowing companies to import cheaper workers from abroad.

sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
Why is that?
- jaywalk 4y ago
  The US government is supposed to first and foremost take care of US citizens, not just allow them to be pushed out of jobs because corporations would rather import cheap labor.
  - sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
    I agree with that. Do you agree that should be weighted by the need of the country to remain competitive, say in the hypothetically scenario where we came to the conclusion that the average american is lazy, and that that's the core reason why immigrants replace them?
    - jaywalk 4y ago
      The entire reason we have this system is so that the country can remain competitive, which is an important and valid reason. But it was never meant to be what it has become, which is just a way to import cheap labor. It needs to get back to what it was supposed to be, which is a way to bring in highly-skilled labor that simply can't be found in the US, at the same pay US citizens would receive.
      - sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
        You have it backwards. Not importing cheaper labor would make it less competitive.
    - meowtimemania 4y ago
      The country shouldn’t act in the interests of the “country” but rather in the interests of its citizens. “Replacing” the citizens (sounds a little genocidal) is not in the citizens best interests.
  - mtoner23 4y ago
    Yes but these people and their children could also be US citizens why should they not be prioritized?
    - jaywalk 4y ago
      I'm not understanding how people imported from abroad could be US citizens.
  - tarentel 4y ago
    I agree with your first statement. I've never felt threatened by imported cheap labor in my role though. I think our immigration laws should protect US citizens but what they seem to be doing is allowing companies to hire people for cheap but not giving a very good path for those people to become US citizens even though they're contributing to US companies and the US economy as a whole. If you're worried about losing your job to cheap labor that's an issue with our immigration system not a problem with immigration in general. You should be asking yourself why companies are allowed to pay non-US citizens less for the same jobs we're doing.
    - jaywalk 4y ago
      I, personally, have zero fear of being replaced by cheap labor. I've climbed high enough in what I do and I know how valuable my skillset is. But I see it all over the place, and it still concerns me. > You should be asking yourself why companies are allowed to pay non-US citizens less for the same jobs we're doing. I would ask myself this, but I know the answer. It's because these companies have our lawmakers in their pockets. That is the problem that really needs to be solved, which would take care of this and many other issues.
  - zamalek 4y ago
    Oh, this tired talking point. In the tech labor market (as per the post) the labor simply isn't available. We don't generally see American software engineers languishing and unable to find jobs. I guarantee that the like of Microsystems, Google, and Amazon were not paying the poster a pittance.
    - illplaythatgame 4y ago
      Not sure who you hang out with, but black, hispanic, and latino US citizens have a very hard time getting jobs despite having software engineering degrees. They end up in GS-5 equivalent military tech "careers" or crappy geek squad jobs.
      - renewiltord 4y ago
        If you have friends in each of these categories who are skilled, I’ll interview them. Job is onsite in San Francisco. Interview is leetcode style plus software design. Since it isn’t based primarily on past experience, it won’t matter that they haven’t had opportunity if they do have the skills. I’m in HFT. Only hire people I’d consider capable and I’m comfortable with our interview process. If they knock the interview off the hook they’ll be in. Let me know.
        nebula8804 4y ago
        Nobody wants to work for your crappy startup. What you are asking for requires a lot of sacrifice and investment (living in an overpriced dump called SF, leetcode interviews, dealing with people like you) for not enough benefits hence thats why you rely on outside "help".
        zamalek 4y ago
        > Nobody wants to work for your crappy startup. I rest my case.
        nebula8804 4y ago

jaywalk 4y ago

I'll flip your question on its head: why are the people filling these roles so heavily skewed to one country?

d3nj4l 4y ago
Let me flip your question too: why do you think it matters?
- jaywalk 4y ago
  Because all else being equal, that skew shouldn't exist. There is nothing inherent to Indian people (or any other people) making them better at these jobs, so there is value to understanding why their numbers are so high. And by value, I mean value to US citizens. It could show us how we can improve within the country, or it could expose fraud in the system. Or a mix of both.
  - enriquec 4y ago
    This is just obviously and factually wrong. Even average age differs greatly between countries. Why would they have the same degrees/skills/value? You just want to chop down the forest because trees are different heights - you're optimizing for nothing based on nothing.
  - codegeek 4y ago
    So what about Basketball ? Should there be more whites ? Is that skewed by design ? Have you ever thought about the various factors behind why a certain group dominates certain fields or you just think it is unfair and on purpose ?
    - jaywalk 4y ago
      It's funny that you bring up sports, because one of the hot topics in the sports world right now is that there should be less whites in many positions, from coaching to ownership. It's supposed to be accepted as fact that if there are a lot of non-whites somewhere, it's simply because they're better. But if there are a lot of whites somewhere, it's because of racism.