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Indians account for 73.9 percent out of the total number of H1B visa holders in the USA. Now i wouldn't want anyone to be discriminated but still it makes sens

• tarentel 4y ago
  If there's a demand for certain roles, which clearly seems to be the case, what difference does it make where the people filling those roles comes from?
  • fallingknife 4y ago
    Well, I would prefer them to come from the US instead of allowing companies to import cheaper workers from abroad.
    • sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
      Why is that?
      • jaywalk 4y ago
        The US government is supposed to first and foremost take care of US citizens, not just allow them to be pushed out of jobs because corporations would rather import cheap labor.
        • sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
          I agree with that. Do you agree that should be weighted by the need of the country to remain competitive, say in the hypothetically scenario where we came to the conclusion that the average american is lazy, and that that's the core reason why immigrants replace them?
          • jaywalk 4y ago
            The entire reason we have this system is so that the country can remain competitive, which is an important and valid reason. But it was never meant to be what it has become, which is just a way to import cheap labor. It needs to get back to what it was supposed to be, which is a way to bring in highly-skilled labor that simply can't be found in the US, at the same pay US citizens would receive.
            • sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
              You have it backwards. Not importing cheaper labor would make it less competitive.
          • meowtimemania 4y ago
            The country shouldn’t act in the interests of the “country” but rather in the interests of its citizens. “Replacing” the citizens (sounds a little genocidal) is not in the citizens best interests.
        • mtoner23 4y ago
          Yes but these people and their children could also be US citizens why should they not be prioritized?
          • jaywalk 4y ago
            I'm not understanding how people imported from abroad could be US citizens.
        • tarentel 4y ago
          I agree with your first statement. I've never felt threatened by imported cheap labor in my role though. I think our immigration laws should protect US citizens but what they seem to be doing is allowing companies to hire people for cheap but not giving a very good path for those people to become US citizens even though they're contributing to US companies and the US economy as a whole. If you're worried about losing your job to cheap labor that's an issue with our immigration system not a problem with immigration in general. You should be asking yourself why companies are allowed to pay non-US citizens less for the same jobs we're doing.
          • jaywalk 4y ago
            I, personally, have zero fear of being replaced by cheap labor. I've climbed high enough in what I do and I know how valuable my skillset is. But I see it all over the place, and it still concerns me. > You should be asking yourself why companies are allowed to pay non-US citizens less for the same jobs we're doing. I would ask myself this, but I know the answer. It's because these companies have our lawmakers in their pockets. That is the problem that really needs to be solved, which would take care of this and many other issues.
        • zamalek 4y ago
          Oh, this tired talking point. In the tech labor market (as per the post) the labor simply isn't available. We don't generally see American software engineers languishing and unable to find jobs. I guarantee that the like of Microsystems, Google, and Amazon were not paying the poster a pittance.
          • illplaythatgame 4y ago
            Not sure who you hang out with, but black, hispanic, and latino US citizens have a very hard time getting jobs despite having software engineering degrees. They end up in GS-5 equivalent military tech "careers" or crappy geek squad jobs.
            • renewiltord 4y ago
              If you have friends in each of these categories who are skilled, I’ll interview them. Job is onsite in San Francisco. Interview is leetcode style plus software design. Since it isn’t based primarily on past experience, it won’t matter that they haven’t had opportunity if they do have the skills. I’m in HFT. Only hire people I’d consider capable and I’m comfortable with our interview process. If they knock the interview off the hook they’ll be in. Let me know.
              • nebula8804 4y ago
                Nobody wants to work for your crappy startup. What you are asking for requires a lot of sacrifice and investment (living in an overpriced dump called SF, leetcode interviews, dealing with people like you) for not enough benefits hence thats why you rely on outside "help".
                • zamalek 4y ago
                  > Nobody wants to work for your crappy startup. I rest my case.
                  • nebula8804 4y ago
  • jaywalk 4y ago
    I'll flip your question on its head: why are the people filling these roles so heavily skewed to one country?
    • d3nj4l 4y ago
      Let me flip your question too: why do you think it matters?
      • jaywalk 4y ago
        Because all else being equal, that skew shouldn't exist. There is nothing inherent to Indian people (or any other people) making them better at these jobs, so there is value to understanding why their numbers are so high. And by value, I mean value to US citizens. It could show us how we can improve within the country, or it could expose fraud in the system. Or a mix of both.
        • enriquec 4y ago
          This is just obviously and factually wrong. Even average age differs greatly between countries. Why would they have the same degrees/skills/value? You just want to chop down the forest because trees are different heights - you're optimizing for nothing based on nothing.
        • codegeek 4y ago
          So what about Basketball ? Should there be more whites ? Is that skewed by design ? Have you ever thought about the various factors behind why a certain group dominates certain fields or you just think it is unfair and on purpose ?
          • jaywalk 4y ago
            It's funny that you bring up sports, because one of the hot topics in the sports world right now is that there should be less whites in many positions, from coaching to ownership. It's supposed to be accepted as fact that if there are a lot of non-whites somewhere, it's simply because they're better. But if there are a lot of whites somewhere, it's because of racism.
• throw123123123 4y ago
  What doesn't make sense is putting limits whatsoever.
  • meowtimemania 4y ago
    Why does it not make sense? Imagine you have factory workers making 15$ an hour and a company decides to import labor to work at 10$ an hour because there’s “no limits” to immigration. The government should act in the interests of its citizens.
    • throw123123123 4y ago
      It's in the interest of citizens to get their goods at the cheapest price. Thats why you have imports, which is no less than importing the produce of labor. With people, you have the added benefit that if people working within your country they spend and consume in your country. Countries all over the world fight each other for talent, and the US immigration system is doing to itself what other countries spend money to prevent.
• cletus 4y ago
  This is an emotional subject. I've gone through this but come from a country that has a relatively easy path. The source of the huge delay for Indian-born people is these four facts: 1. India has a population exceeding one billion; 2. Green cards have a diversity rule that no more than 7% of applicants can come from a single country; 3. Your category is based solely on country of birth not country of citizenship; and 4. H1B visas have no per-country caps or quotas (beyond the total annual quota). The companies that are really ruining this for anyone are the bodyshops like Tata and Infosys who direclty benefit from the situation. As the article mentions, if you have a pending I140 petition you can stay beyond the 6 year limit and changing jobs is dangerous. So employes get to hold this over employees creating an indentured servant type situation for 10+ years. These bodyshops flood applications and create the lottery problem. There are numerous problems with all of this and (I really do hate to say this but it's true) the only administration who even made noises about reforming the H1B system was the Trump administration like basing H1B on salary (these bodyshops pay low for software engineers). None of this came to pass. Here's one big problem: children ageing out of the system. If an Indian national has a pending green card petition and their child is born outside the US and that child gets to age 18 before the petition is approved, they are no longer eligible to receive a green card as part of their family's petition. Given how long Indian delays are, this may mean deporting someone to a country they left when they were 6 months old and have no memory of. They may not even speak the language. Prior to the pandemic a couple of bills floated around to fix this backlog, most notably S369 [1]. These all ultimately went nowhere and (IMHO) had a lot of problems. For example, this didn't really increase the annual caps (it did, kinda, by only counting the petitioner and not their family against the quota) and eliminated the per-country cap. But what this would've done is made things terrible for everyone else for a transition period of years. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31338329 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31338329
  • 0xcafecafe 4y ago
    Attributing all the problems to those bodyshops is a bit disingenuous IMO. Yes they are part of the problem. Even Chinese nationals face 5+ years backlog for their green cards. Limiting immigration from populous countries based on arbitrary country caps for employment based immigration makes no sense. As it is it is a small piece of the overall immigration pie (14% and if we count only primary applicants, ~5%). What is happening due to this is all advocacy to fix this has to be done by the folks in backlogs (Indians & Chinese) and the rest of the world folks can happily go about business as usual. Yes, H1 reform is needed but green card reform is needed yesterday.
• 0xcafecafe 4y ago
  Why though? If Google is hiring an engineer, it doesn't make a distinction and does so purely on skill. Why should it matter if said engineer is from Argentina (arbitrary example) instead of India? The US issues roughly 1 million green cards each year. 86% of those go to family based immigration. The rest 14% are for employment based immigration. Even in there the dependents (spouse + kids) are counted against that quota. So net effect is close to 5% employment based immigration if we count only primary applicants. What purpose is discrimination by country of birth serving here?
  • meowtimemania 4y ago
    Benefit is greater diversity. Rather than have majority of immigrants from hugely populated countries like China or India, immigrants are more evenly distributed from all around the world. The system obviously has big downsides to individuals from India/China. If it can be proved to US citizens that it’s in their interests to get rid of the cap, I think it will be gone.
    • 0xcafecafe 4y ago
      Diversity can be preserved for 86% of the green card quota. Why does need to be there for the other 14%? Already this is forcing companies to make investments in offshore centers as it is difficult to hire here. There is enough proof this is bad for Americans but the current political climate makes any change impossible.
      • valarauko 4y ago
        Doesn't the country cap also apply for family sponsored greencards?
    • screye 4y ago
      What makes arbitrary geographic borders markers of diversity ? The language, religious practices, food, festivals and traditions change every 100 miles in India. It is an old civilization with as much or more diversity than all of Europe. Small countries like Belgium, Netherlands and Austria can balkanize and claim diversity over minor differences. Yet, Indians are clumped together under 1 umbrella ? How does that make sense ?
• 29athrowaway 4y ago
  In other words, a brain drain, which is the real problem to fix. There is no amount of money that can make you truly happy being away from your friends, family, your culture, etc. If there were good opportunities in India, people would be happier there.
• robinsoh 4y ago
  > Now i wouldn't want anyone to be discriminated but still it makes sense to limit green card based on nationality You're saying you want people to be discriminated by nationality. Correct?
  • np- 4y ago
    Not the op, but to be pedantic, every single international border crossing in the world is an official government “nationality discrimination” department. That’s what passports are for. (Not saying I necessarily agree with this, but it is the world we live in)
    • robinsoh 4y ago
      I'm just trying to understand the meaning of "I wouldn't want anyone to be discriminated" in the context of "Now i wouldn't want anyone to be discriminated but still it makes sense to limit green card based on nationality". I just think it is unclear. If we want to discriminate by nationality then we should just admit it and say we're going to discriminate by nationality instead of being covert about it.
• thunkshift1 4y ago
  My theory: green cards only go to christian nations
• valarauko 4y ago
  Why do you suppose that is? Indians are forced to remain on H1B visas for decades while other applicants move onto Green Cards.
• muzaffarpur 4y ago
  Do you know what discrimination means? This is literally discrimination. Yes, it is encoded in law, still is discrimination. Imagine this, next time you getting interviewed by someone, and he rejects you,because you are not chineese/Indian. Then you'll be discriminated and that would be acceptable, per law. I'm sure your definition of discrimination won't change then.