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> I don't understand this opinion. Ok, let me spell it out: you're not special. Nothing about your profession makes you special, you are not somehow better tha

> I don't understand this opinion. Ok, let me spell it out: you're not special. Nothing about your profession makes you special, you are not somehow better than anyone because you can sit at a computer and write code. It's a skill, a very highly compensated one for now but an incredibly narrow one that happens to be useful a select few corps, sure, but so was were many other things. And if one thing that COVID has taught us is how incredibly unnecessary you are to maintaining civilization--unless you are some supply chain developer in which case you were doomed either way. No one was calling for the return for programmers like they were for even barbers or cooks, in fact people lauded the fact that FB went down. In short, you like being told you're special, it makes you feel good. But you are not. Wide spread misery isn't about equality, I can assure this isn't what I'm advocating here, it's about a self-awareness issue.

commandlinefan 4y ago
> you are not somehow better than anyone because you can sit at a computer and write code. You're right, any human being with a pulse can produce effective software with no training or education or experience or effort whatsoever, and nobody's better at it than anybody else, unlike every other single human endeavor.
grog454 4y ago
> And if one thing that COVID has taught us is how incredibly unnecessary you are to maintaining civilization--unless you are some supply chain developer Wait what? So you somehow realize that if you're a software engineer supporting some necessary field, you're necessary by extension, but apparently the only thing we needed during covid was a function supply chain. Impressive mental gymnastics. No one was calling for the "return" of programmers because (almost) no one interacts with them directly like they do their barber. Do you think their barbers decided during covid that they no longer needed to support credit card payments, an electronic scheduling system, etc?
emteycz 4y ago
I assume this is a reply to my comment. What you're saying here is right, but I have no idea why you're saying it as I really don't care about being special, at all. Never crossed my mind until now, and nobody ever told me so (except for the other meaning of "special", and that has a lot of truth to it). And then, even if I thought I was special (I don't), I would still be fully capable of feeling concerned for other less fortunate people while feeling concerned about making less than X times the average. Anyways, the demand for software engineers increased extremely significantly (multiples of open positions, rates doubled) when Covid started and all remaining companies hopped on the digital transformation trend; and that continues to today. Every contract I interviewed for since it began, they literally begged me to work for them (previously it felt like we're equals, they were able to say no without fear of not finding anyone else). They don't even ask programming questions anymore, they just try to make their company look like the best place while apologizing profusely for their limited budget. Your characterization of the programmers market seems totally out of loop.
- jason0597 4y ago
  Excuse my reply, but he told you: >"you're not special" and you replied with >"they literally begged me to work for them" >"they just try to make their company look like the best place while apologizing profusely for their limited budget" Do you not see how your 2 comments here give off the impression that you feel special? Maybe you don't feel special (like you explicitly say), but those two comments especially give a strong impression that you do feel special. EDIT: I continued reading down this thread and I found a comment chain that perfectly encapsulates the "feeling special" observation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31336614 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31336614 >"Well said. Working in tech is like writing a book with 50 people instead of 1."
  - emteycz 4y ago
    I don't feel special because the same thing applies to every programmer I know. How could I in any way feel special when I'm just the same as others? I said it because I wanted you to feel how the market is, not because it makes me special. And I don't think that a job makes a person special, why would it? It's just a job. I work on a hot market, someone else does not - that doesn't make any of us special people. To me, a special person is distinguished by much more than just working on a hot market. I don't even know how much money the people who I think are special have or make, and don't care about it at all. Few of the best programmers I know make nearly zero money (of course, by choice). They're special by themselves, not because of their money. Should I lie about the market so you don't think I feel special even if I repeat like 10 times it doesn't make me special, or what?
    - jason0597 4y ago
      > "And I don't think that a job makes a person special, why would it? It's just a job. I work on a hot market, someone else does not - that doesn't make any of us special people." Well, a job takes up roughly 1/3 of our working lives (minus 2/3 for sleep (8hrs) and "leisure" (8hrs)), so I would say that it defines us very much, and it's a lot more than "just a job". A "job" is stacking shelves at Tesco or driving lorries for Amazon. Tech is a career (and a lifestyle, given how much it seeps into one's personal life e.g. watching Defcon before bed, I doubt lorry drives watch Lorrycon talks before bed...) As for your other point, fair enough, point taken.
inertiatic 4y ago
>And if one thing that COVID has taught us is how incredibly unnecessary you are to maintaining civilization I don't think you understand how the world dealt with COVID. Governments needed software fast to deal with things like tracking the spread of the virus, ensuring people observe protocols (like in my country Greece where you had to go online or send a text to make sure that you're allowed to be outside during the peak of the pandemic). You do mention supply chain, like it's one simple job, but in fact software is now an integral part of selling anything to anyone. People went online to do things like work, socialize, buy things they don't need, buy the things they need to survive, go to school or learn skills they now need to survive like how to cook, exercise, perform, have sex. I don't think being a programmer makes me special either, I'm not attacking that argument of yours, but in trying to make that argument you make some very myopic remarks...
- nradov 4y ago
  It's horrifying that any software developer would participate in a scheme that required people to get permission to go outside. That was a fundamental violation of human rights that can't possibly be justified for any public health reasons. Developers need a better sense of ethics, and the courage to refuse such projects.
  - nicoburns 4y ago
    Do you also consider prisons a fundamental violation of human rights?
- Workaccount2 4y ago
  Everyone from every profession can write about how their work is critical to a pandemic world.

commandlinefan 4y ago

> you are not somehow better than anyone because you can sit at a computer and write code. You're right, any human being with a pulse can produce effective software with no training or education or experience or effort whatsoever, and nobody's better at it than anybody else, unlike every other single human endeavor.

grog454 4y ago

> And if one thing that COVID has taught us is how incredibly unnecessary you are to maintaining civilization--unless you are some supply chain developer Wait what? So you somehow realize that if you're a software engineer supporting some necessary field, you're necessary by extension, but apparently the only thing we needed during covid was a function supply chain. Impressive mental gymnastics. No one was calling for the "return" of programmers because (almost) no one interacts with them directly like they do their barber. Do you think their barbers decided during covid that they no longer needed to support credit card payments, an electronic scheduling system, etc?

emteycz 4y ago

I assume this is a reply to my comment. What you're saying here is right, but I have no idea why you're saying it as I really don't care about being special, at all. Never crossed my mind until now, and nobody ever told me so (except for the other meaning of "special", and that has a lot of truth to it). And then, even if I thought I was special (I don't), I would still be fully capable of feeling concerned for other less fortunate people while feeling concerned about making less than X times the average. Anyways, the demand for software engineers increased extremely significantly (multiples of open positions, rates doubled) when Covid started and all remaining companies hopped on the digital transformation trend; and that continues to today. Every contract I interviewed for since it began, they literally begged me to work for them (previously it felt like we're equals, they were able to say no without fear of not finding anyone else). They don't even ask programming questions anymore, they just try to make their company look like the best place while apologizing profusely for their limited budget. Your characterization of the programmers market seems totally out of loop.

jason0597 4y ago
Excuse my reply, but he told you: >"you're not special" and you replied with >"they literally begged me to work for them" >"they just try to make their company look like the best place while apologizing profusely for their limited budget" Do you not see how your 2 comments here give off the impression that you feel special? Maybe you don't feel special (like you explicitly say), but those two comments especially give a strong impression that you do feel special. EDIT: I continued reading down this thread and I found a comment chain that perfectly encapsulates the "feeling special" observation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31336614 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31336614 >"Well said. Working in tech is like writing a book with 50 people instead of 1."
- emteycz 4y ago
  I don't feel special because the same thing applies to every programmer I know. How could I in any way feel special when I'm just the same as others? I said it because I wanted you to feel how the market is, not because it makes me special. And I don't think that a job makes a person special, why would it? It's just a job. I work on a hot market, someone else does not - that doesn't make any of us special people. To me, a special person is distinguished by much more than just working on a hot market. I don't even know how much money the people who I think are special have or make, and don't care about it at all. Few of the best programmers I know make nearly zero money (of course, by choice). They're special by themselves, not because of their money. Should I lie about the market so you don't think I feel special even if I repeat like 10 times it doesn't make me special, or what?
  - jason0597 4y ago
    > "And I don't think that a job makes a person special, why would it? It's just a job. I work on a hot market, someone else does not - that doesn't make any of us special people." Well, a job takes up roughly 1/3 of our working lives (minus 2/3 for sleep (8hrs) and "leisure" (8hrs)), so I would say that it defines us very much, and it's a lot more than "just a job". A "job" is stacking shelves at Tesco or driving lorries for Amazon. Tech is a career (and a lifestyle, given how much it seeps into one's personal life e.g. watching Defcon before bed, I doubt lorry drives watch Lorrycon talks before bed...) As for your other point, fair enough, point taken.

inertiatic 4y ago

>And if one thing that COVID has taught us is how incredibly unnecessary you are to maintaining civilization I don't think you understand how the world dealt with COVID. Governments needed software fast to deal with things like tracking the spread of the virus, ensuring people observe protocols (like in my country Greece where you had to go online or send a text to make sure that you're allowed to be outside during the peak of the pandemic). You do mention supply chain, like it's one simple job, but in fact software is now an integral part of selling anything to anyone. People went online to do things like work, socialize, buy things they don't need, buy the things they need to survive, go to school or learn skills they now need to survive like how to cook, exercise, perform, have sex. I don't think being a programmer makes me special either, I'm not attacking that argument of yours, but in trying to make that argument you make some very myopic remarks...

nradov 4y ago
It's horrifying that any software developer would participate in a scheme that required people to get permission to go outside. That was a fundamental violation of human rights that can't possibly be justified for any public health reasons. Developers need a better sense of ethics, and the courage to refuse such projects.
- nicoburns 4y ago
  Do you also consider prisons a fundamental violation of human rights?
Workaccount2 4y ago
Everyone from every profession can write about how their work is critical to a pandemic world.