8 ms·

It's a shame that personal music players are still so niche. The hardware coming out of China right now blows any phone out of the water in terms of usability,

by cush 4y ago

It's a shame that personal music players are still so niche. The hardware coming out of China right now blows any phone out of the water in terms of usability, performance, and battery life, all at a fraction of the cost. We're in a Renaissance age of mobile listening thanks to ChiFi. I love carrying around a second device that has no persistent connection to the internet, no notifications, and can drive any headphones I throw at it... With sideloaded Audible and Tidal to boot. Media used to be this easy and pleasurable to consume before phones got it the way.

cush 4y ago
People replying here have already forgotten about the headphone jack...
zls 4y ago
Battery life? Usability? Renaissance?? Have I been trying the wrong DAPs? I'm also really into single-purpose electronics. My whole library is FLAC, so these players should be right up my alley. Except they tend to be heavy and expensive, and when it comes to UI, either they're using Android poorly, with incredibly bad battery life (HiBy R5/R6, Fiio M9, A&K anything), or they're using a custom UI with pre-iPod UX sensibilities. And even when they use Android, they try to graft their own UI onto it, so that in the end you have the worst of both worlds -- just watch what happens to the volume settings on any Android-based HiBy DAP after connecting with Bluetooth. The communities that buy this stuff are much more into the technical and theoretical sound quality than how it actually comes together as a product. The marketing reflects that; the product pages are all litanies of incremental DAC processor upgrades, circuit diagrams, and cryptic audio codecs. And because this is what folks care about, it's hard to find reviewers who even mention into UX. If you have a rec I'm all ears, because I'm on the verge of resuscitating my original Pixel just for this.
- cush 4y ago
  For me, physical buttons are the best UI. Completely agree with the screen UI being ugly but being able to play/pause, switch songs, change volume, and rewind my book using a clicky button beats any touchscreen UI imo. I'm using an AK SR25 right now and absolutely love it. It's pretty small.
- thorncorona 4y ago
  Just get an old iphone tbh. They have great DACs built in and support iOS apps.
  - roboyoshi 4y ago
    but then I am forced to use the Apple Music app, which is sadly moving away from library management to streaming. It's still a good advice for the many people with old iphones in their drawers.
- ABoredBirb 4y ago
  Korean, not Chinese, but I'm a massive fan of Cowon products. The (sadly discontinued) Cowon J3 was legendary, rightfully called the best DAP of all time by many. Currently have a Cowon Plenue D2 in my pocket.
- Jiejeing 4y ago
  My HiBy R3 has solid battery life (north of fiften hours of continuous playtime) and nice physical buttons, but I agree the custom UI is very sub-par, and I get somewhat more mileage of it as a high-quality bluetooth DAC than as a DAP.
rahimnathwani 4y ago
"can drive any headphones" Can it drive Bluetooth headphones? That's the only reason I no longer use my Xduoo X3. If I had something similar (small, minimal screen, dual TF slots) that worked with Bluetooth, I'd use it all the time.
- cush 4y ago
  Yes. They all do BT5 now.
  - rahimnathwani 4y ago
    Awesome. Do you have any specific recommendation? I'd like something similar to the Xduoo X3: - candybar form factor - OLED screen - 2 TF slots (ideal) or 1 TF slot (must support at least 200GB card)
- zls 4y ago
  Well, if you use Bluetooth you're no longer using the DAC inside the DAP, so it's not "driving" the headphones in the sense that GP meant. That said, most DAPs support bluetooth these days, with trendy codecs like LDAC, aptX-HD, etc. However, eschewing the device DAC kinda wastes a lot of the money you spent on the DAP. For Bluetooth usage a year or two ago I would have recommended the Shanling M0. All these devices have awful touchscreens and the M0 is no exception, but it's tiny, light, and has long battery life. Unfortunately, in this space the manufacturers tend to discontinue products in favor of new ones within a year.
chrisseaton 4y ago
> all at a fraction of the cost But you already have a phone (I guess) so the cost you're competing against is zero.
- cush 4y ago
  It's much cheaper than a phone, I mean. Sure, you got me...
- refactor_master 4y ago
  So in fact it’s actually entirely additional cost.
- Tenoke 4y ago
  Not for phones without SD cards on which you might have limited space or for situations/phones where you have to conserve battery.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    Phones come with like 128 GB of storage. Not all is usable but that accommodates like four days of continuous uncompressed music. How long do you really go without a network connection and need music for? Also I think they playback with hardware don’t they? They aren’t running the CPU. It uses a trickle of charge just like your iPod.
    - femiagbabiaka 4y ago
      IMO a person who wants to store music on their phone locally doesn't want to supplement streaming, they want to replace it entirely. If they didn't then you're right, all of the major DSP's offer local storage through their apps and the 128/256/512 GB options available from iPhones is fine. (no idea what the limit is like for Android phones, I'm sure it's much more)
bigbillheck 4y ago
> The hardware coming out of China right now blows any phone out of the water in terms of usability, performance, and battery life, Can you point to anything in particular? I bought a Chinese mp3 player earlier this year and it's a piece of junk.
- idonotknowwhy 4y ago
  Look up the f-audio devices on aliexpress. I bought one a few years ago, it plays flac and drives my 600ohn headphones as well as my 8ohm iems
hiisukun 4y ago
I'd love a suggestion or three - my old ipod nano is dying and I would find sifting through the junk/good on alixpress or other sites almost impossible without recommendations. I also prefer it not to have internet, notifications, etc, so that sounds perfect.
- ABoredBirb 4y ago
  Try Cowon products, they are Korean and make excellent DAPs. Currently have a Cowon Plenue D2 in my pocket.
k_sze 4y ago
Speaking of ChiFi, the latest Fiio flagship portable DAP, the M17, looks like what happens when your industrial engineer has a mental breakdown and completely loses his shit. The thing is thick and dissipates so much heat that they have an official active cooling stand to go with it. How is that portable? What makes the whole situation funnier is that they spin it as a feature, calling it "Desktop tier heat dissipation" (you can't make this up). In contrast, Shanling's M9 still looks normal.

by cush 4y ago

cush 4y ago

People replying here have already forgotten about the headphone jack...

zls 4y ago

Battery life? Usability? Renaissance?? Have I been trying the wrong DAPs? I'm also really into single-purpose electronics. My whole library is FLAC, so these players should be right up my alley. Except they tend to be heavy and expensive, and when it comes to UI, either they're using Android poorly, with incredibly bad battery life (HiBy R5/R6, Fiio M9, A&K anything), or they're using a custom UI with pre-iPod UX sensibilities. And even when they use Android, they try to graft their own UI onto it, so that in the end you have the worst of both worlds -- just watch what happens to the volume settings on any Android-based HiBy DAP after connecting with Bluetooth. The communities that buy this stuff are much more into the technical and theoretical sound quality than how it actually comes together as a product. The marketing reflects that; the product pages are all litanies of incremental DAC processor upgrades, circuit diagrams, and cryptic audio codecs. And because this is what folks care about, it's hard to find reviewers who even mention into UX. If you have a rec I'm all ears, because I'm on the verge of resuscitating my original Pixel just for this.

cush 4y ago
For me, physical buttons are the best UI. Completely agree with the screen UI being ugly but being able to play/pause, switch songs, change volume, and rewind my book using a clicky button beats any touchscreen UI imo. I'm using an AK SR25 right now and absolutely love it. It's pretty small.
thorncorona 4y ago
Just get an old iphone tbh. They have great DACs built in and support iOS apps.
- roboyoshi 4y ago
  but then I am forced to use the Apple Music app, which is sadly moving away from library management to streaming. It's still a good advice for the many people with old iphones in their drawers.
ABoredBirb 4y ago
Korean, not Chinese, but I'm a massive fan of Cowon products. The (sadly discontinued) Cowon J3 was legendary, rightfully called the best DAP of all time by many. Currently have a Cowon Plenue D2 in my pocket.
Jiejeing 4y ago
My HiBy R3 has solid battery life (north of fiften hours of continuous playtime) and nice physical buttons, but I agree the custom UI is very sub-par, and I get somewhat more mileage of it as a high-quality bluetooth DAC than as a DAP.

rahimnathwani 4y ago

"can drive any headphones" Can it drive Bluetooth headphones? That's the only reason I no longer use my Xduoo X3. If I had something similar (small, minimal screen, dual TF slots) that worked with Bluetooth, I'd use it all the time.

cush 4y ago
Yes. They all do BT5 now.
- rahimnathwani 4y ago
  Awesome. Do you have any specific recommendation? I'd like something similar to the Xduoo X3: - candybar form factor - OLED screen - 2 TF slots (ideal) or 1 TF slot (must support at least 200GB card)
zls 4y ago
Well, if you use Bluetooth you're no longer using the DAC inside the DAP, so it's not "driving" the headphones in the sense that GP meant. That said, most DAPs support bluetooth these days, with trendy codecs like LDAC, aptX-HD, etc. However, eschewing the device DAC kinda wastes a lot of the money you spent on the DAP. For Bluetooth usage a year or two ago I would have recommended the Shanling M0. All these devices have awful touchscreens and the M0 is no exception, but it's tiny, light, and has long battery life. Unfortunately, in this space the manufacturers tend to discontinue products in favor of new ones within a year.

chrisseaton 4y ago

> all at a fraction of the cost But you already have a phone (I guess) so the cost you're competing against is zero.

cush 4y ago
It's much cheaper than a phone, I mean. Sure, you got me...
refactor_master 4y ago
So in fact it’s actually entirely additional cost.
Tenoke 4y ago
Not for phones without SD cards on which you might have limited space or for situations/phones where you have to conserve battery.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  Phones come with like 128 GB of storage. Not all is usable but that accommodates like four days of continuous uncompressed music. How long do you really go without a network connection and need music for? Also I think they playback with hardware don’t they? They aren’t running the CPU. It uses a trickle of charge just like your iPod.
  - femiagbabiaka 4y ago
    IMO a person who wants to store music on their phone locally doesn't want to supplement streaming, they want to replace it entirely. If they didn't then you're right, all of the major DSP's offer local storage through their apps and the 128/256/512 GB options available from iPhones is fine. (no idea what the limit is like for Android phones, I'm sure it's much more)

bigbillheck 4y ago

> The hardware coming out of China right now blows any phone out of the water in terms of usability, performance, and battery life, Can you point to anything in particular? I bought a Chinese mp3 player earlier this year and it's a piece of junk.

idonotknowwhy 4y ago
Look up the f-audio devices on aliexpress. I bought one a few years ago, it plays flac and drives my 600ohn headphones as well as my 8ohm iems

hiisukun 4y ago

I'd love a suggestion or three - my old ipod nano is dying and I would find sifting through the junk/good on alixpress or other sites almost impossible without recommendations. I also prefer it not to have internet, notifications, etc, so that sounds perfect.

ABoredBirb 4y ago
Try Cowon products, they are Korean and make excellent DAPs. Currently have a Cowon Plenue D2 in my pocket.

k_sze 4y ago

Speaking of ChiFi, the latest Fiio flagship portable DAP, the M17, looks like what happens when your industrial engineer has a mental breakdown and completely loses his shit. The thing is thick and dissipates so much heat that they have an official active cooling stand to go with it. How is that portable? What makes the whole situation funnier is that they spin it as a feature, calling it "Desktop tier heat dissipation" (you can't make this up). In contrast, Shanling's M9 still looks normal.