4 ms·

There are plenty of orgs that tackle portions of what the ACLU used to - enough that I’m sure with 3 or 4 donations one could replace the former ACLU donations

There are plenty of orgs that tackle portions of what the ACLU used to - enough that I’m sure with 3 or 4 donations one could replace the former ACLU donations one made. For example, FIRE has done way more for campus free speech issues this last decade or two than the ACLU despite a considerably smaller budget. Between them, Institute for Justice, and EFF, I don’t miss my ACLU donations much.

vkou 4y ago
And what has FIRE done for, say, minority voting rights in the south? Police harassment?
- ethbr0 4y ago
  If you want to support those causes, wouldn't the SPLC be a better method?
  - vkou 4y ago
    Why the SPLC over the ACLU, if their missions largely overlap? I give to both, FYI. If you don't give a crap about all the social causes, and just care about alt-right speech, I agree, the ACLU is not the organization you should donate to! In that case, I also can't say I care very much for your vision of the problems in this country, but it's your opinion, everyone's free to have one.
    - ethbr0 4y ago
      I think the point of the article and general consensus here is that their missions should not overlap as much as they do. Or as the ACLU puts it, on why they defend abhorrent groups: "The ACLU is frequently asked to explain its defense of certain people or groups — particularly controversial and unpopular entities such as the Ku Klux Klan, the Nation of Islam, and the National Socialist Party of America. We do not defend them because we agree with them. Rather we defend their right to free expression and free assembly. Historically, the people whose opinions are the most controversial or extreme are the people whose rights are most often threatened. Once the government has the power to violate one person’s rights, it can use that power against everyone. We work to stop the erosion of civil liberties before it’s too late." https://www.aclu.org/about-aclu https://www.aclu.org/about-aclu Which is somewhat different than the SPLC: "The SPLC is a catalyst for racial justice in the South and beyond, working in partnership with communities to dismantle white supremacy, strengthen intersectional movements, and advance the human rights of all people." https://www.splcenter.org/about https://www.splcenter.org/about
    - jimbokun 4y ago
      > but it's your opinion, everyone's free to have one. Clearly not any more, especially if the ACLU were to have their way.
    - mechanical_bear 4y ago
      I do care about alt-right speech. I care about leftist speech. I care about anarchist speech. I care about conspiracy weirdos speech. I care about religious nut job speech. I care about free speech.
- atdrummond 4y ago
  I think there are more effective organizations to tackle those specific issues, too. The Brennan Center comes to mind for the former.
pmoriarty 4y ago
"FIRE has done way more for campus free speech issues this last decade or two than the ACLU despite a considerably smaller budget" You mean conservative speech? Or has FIRE actually defended speech they despised, like the ACLU used to?
- euroclear 4y ago
  You can find a list of cases on their web site. I don't think they are a conservative organization, either. https://www.thefire.org/category/cases/ https://www.thefire.org/category/cases/
- fieryscribe 4y ago
  I'm not sure why you're implying that FIRE "despises" speech; perhaps you see them as conservative. That said, here's are some recent situations in which FIRE has taken the side of what would be under the general progressive/liberal umbrella: * https://www.thefire.org/cases/new-york-university-administration-investigating-anti-zionst-statement-by-law-students-for-justice-in-palestine-following-harassment-complaints/ https://www.thefire.org/cases/new-york-university-administra... * https://www.thefire.org/cases/catholic-university-of-america-student-investigated-for-arthur-childrens-cartoon-meme-criticizing-student-group/ https://www.thefire.org/cases/catholic-university-of-america... * https://www.thefire.org/cases/suny-brockport-event-featuring-faculty-invited-speaker-jalil-muntaqim-defunded/ https://www.thefire.org/cases/suny-brockport-event-featuring... There are more, for sure, but hopefully this points you in the right direction.
  - Shebanator 4y ago
    You should re-read the comment you are replying to. You misunderstood.
    - fieryscribe 4y ago
      I'm not sure what you're suggesting. This is the comment: > FIRE has done way more for campus free speech issues this last decade or two ... > You mean conservative speech? Or has FIRE actually defended speech they despised, like the ACLU used to? It seems to imply that FIRE has done way more for conservative campus free speech issues. I supplied examples of times when FIRE supported non-conservative campus free speech. I'm not quite clear how else to read that comment, but would love your take.

vkou 4y ago

And what has FIRE done for, say, minority voting rights in the south? Police harassment?

ethbr0 4y ago
If you want to support those causes, wouldn't the SPLC be a better method?
- vkou 4y ago
  Why the SPLC over the ACLU, if their missions largely overlap? I give to both, FYI. If you don't give a crap about all the social causes, and just care about alt-right speech, I agree, the ACLU is not the organization you should donate to! In that case, I also can't say I care very much for your vision of the problems in this country, but it's your opinion, everyone's free to have one.
  - ethbr0 4y ago
    I think the point of the article and general consensus here is that their missions should not overlap as much as they do. Or as the ACLU puts it, on why they defend abhorrent groups: "The ACLU is frequently asked to explain its defense of certain people or groups — particularly controversial and unpopular entities such as the Ku Klux Klan, the Nation of Islam, and the National Socialist Party of America. We do not defend them because we agree with them. Rather we defend their right to free expression and free assembly. Historically, the people whose opinions are the most controversial or extreme are the people whose rights are most often threatened. Once the government has the power to violate one person’s rights, it can use that power against everyone. We work to stop the erosion of civil liberties before it’s too late." https://www.aclu.org/about-aclu https://www.aclu.org/about-aclu Which is somewhat different than the SPLC: "The SPLC is a catalyst for racial justice in the South and beyond, working in partnership with communities to dismantle white supremacy, strengthen intersectional movements, and advance the human rights of all people." https://www.splcenter.org/about https://www.splcenter.org/about
  - jimbokun 4y ago
    > but it's your opinion, everyone's free to have one. Clearly not any more, especially if the ACLU were to have their way.
  - mechanical_bear 4y ago
    I do care about alt-right speech. I care about leftist speech. I care about anarchist speech. I care about conspiracy weirdos speech. I care about religious nut job speech. I care about free speech.
atdrummond 4y ago
I think there are more effective organizations to tackle those specific issues, too. The Brennan Center comes to mind for the former.

pmoriarty 4y ago

"FIRE has done way more for campus free speech issues this last decade or two than the ACLU despite a considerably smaller budget" You mean conservative speech? Or has FIRE actually defended speech they despised, like the ACLU used to?

euroclear 4y ago
You can find a list of cases on their web site. I don't think they are a conservative organization, either. https://www.thefire.org/category/cases/ https://www.thefire.org/category/cases/
fieryscribe 4y ago
I'm not sure why you're implying that FIRE "despises" speech; perhaps you see them as conservative. That said, here's are some recent situations in which FIRE has taken the side of what would be under the general progressive/liberal umbrella: * https://www.thefire.org/cases/new-york-university-administration-investigating-anti-zionst-statement-by-law-students-for-justice-in-palestine-following-harassment-complaints/ https://www.thefire.org/cases/new-york-university-administra... * https://www.thefire.org/cases/catholic-university-of-america-student-investigated-for-arthur-childrens-cartoon-meme-criticizing-student-group/ https://www.thefire.org/cases/catholic-university-of-america... * https://www.thefire.org/cases/suny-brockport-event-featuring-faculty-invited-speaker-jalil-muntaqim-defunded/ https://www.thefire.org/cases/suny-brockport-event-featuring... There are more, for sure, but hopefully this points you in the right direction.
- Shebanator 4y ago
  You should re-read the comment you are replying to. You misunderstood.
  - fieryscribe 4y ago
    I'm not sure what you're suggesting. This is the comment: > FIRE has done way more for campus free speech issues this last decade or two ... > You mean conservative speech? Or has FIRE actually defended speech they despised, like the ACLU used to? It seems to imply that FIRE has done way more for conservative campus free speech issues. I supplied examples of times when FIRE supported non-conservative campus free speech. I'm not quite clear how else to read that comment, but would love your take.