8 ms·
Intel’s Core i9-12950HX has 16 cores and 55 watts of power
- mperham 4y agoThe 14” MBP has a 70 watt-hour battery so a 55W draw will drain the battery in just over an hour. And that’s just the CPU.
- windowsrookie 4y agoIt's even worse. The Max turbo power on these CPUs is 157W. So if the cooling can keep up these will draw much more than 55W.
- gabagool 4y agoIn fact, the de facto upper limit for laptop batteries is 100 watt hours since this is the largest battery size permitted on a flight by the FAA (the US air travel regulatory body) without special approval [1]. The CPU would drain such a battery in 1 hour and 50 minutes. [1]: https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/items/lithium-batteries-more-100-watt-hours https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/...
- daniel-cussen 4y agoI like that. I work on algorithmic performance, making the big-oh notation better often accompanied by a better hidden constant (both at the same time), and I would say... Waiting for a machine is considered harmful. You are never to wait for your machine, it ought to wait for you. You yes want it running at 1% or so. Then it's at your beck and call, ready to fire up at a moment's notice. Instead of the other way around, you planning your schedule around the machine's work. I've done that, there's problems with this, for instance experiments failing half-way while I was out on a walk. I think one time I left it running overnight, that's a classic. But if the computer can go all-out for 110 minutes, that's good, means it's a good sprinter, that's actually better than a good marathoner for the type of mathematical experiments typically carried out on a laptop. And for the laptop? Nobody cares about the energy efficiency when it's working hard. Then you plug it in. Or you think the problem over harder. Like I've never had to do a long mathematical experiment without connecting to the wall. In 13 years as an algorithmist, doing all kinds of shit, not one time. Because then you can't use it for listening to music, or writing essays on Hacker News, or applying to anything, or using emacs. I guess the reason for that is lack of will, so that 110 minutes according to a child node of this poster is much less on an older battery, like 60% of that, so 66 minutes. Then, don't assume I start out on a full charge, I have to code up the algo first, that takes a lot of time at low intensity, a lot of battery, plus you have to finish up the experiment properly, save some files before shutting down. So I guess if you were allotted a limited amount of charge overnight and that's all you could use, then sure. Plus the TDP is lower than if you do really fucked up things with the cores, one time the jumping I think would use up more than TDP. I think I've broken the conceivable limit on one chip, one chip for sure. They assumed my algorithms were sane, reasonable, that's where they fucked up. And all these considerations, I could brainstorm more, but all the considerations reduce the effective battery. Nothing makes it bigger again, it's all a drain. Even writing about the drain like I am now causes drain, accounting for accounting should be accounted for in the total. In other words the Silva Paradox https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=silva%20paradox&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... . In practice I behave totally differently on eg an airplane trip with limited battery than plugged into the wall. Might as well get another user account on everything, full on Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde with power versus battery. . . And I had fucking old old batteries most of the time, my laptop was only a supercomputer due to algorithms, not software or hardware. Only a few of the algorithms were that good yet, when I had it, so in practice I couldn't say it was truly a supercomputer like this machine. Single thread, dual core, like a crappy plastic Macbook. It got looks at Stanford because your laptop is always visible in class (pre-covid) and a status symbol. Well mine was becoming the best, under the hood. And I did all sorts of stunts on it. It's not meaningfully different than now, that was 2.0 GHz, this is less than 3.0 GHz, clock speed for me is still king. Well I guess it depends. Yeah so in fact because of the clock speed factor, your experiments will run on one core usually, I wonder how that compares with the assumptions that lead to a 55W TDP.
- alkonaut 4y agoI’d pay good money for a 5kg laptop without any battery at all. I just need a computer I can move between the office and home. I don’t need a screen, keyboard or touchpad either. They are a bonus (for meetings, for example) but I’d trade them away for a more powerful cpu any day.
- Beltiras 4y agoSounds like you really just need sshfs and mount the machine from 2 locations.
- alkonaut 4y agoNot sure what that is but it sounds linux-y. I work on windows and with desktop/graphics intensive development. Even a remote desktop on a low latency network connection in between is painful.
- Beltiras 4y agosshfs is a linux filesystem driver that uses ssh (secure socket host) as a transport mechanism. With proper setup you shouldn't feel latency except with very large files (can be mitigated with caching). I think there's a windows client available but an alternative Windows solution is using WSL2 to facilitate ssh.
- Gravityloss 4y agoYou could build a Mini ITX PC. Some cases have even handles.
- alkonaut 4y agoI have considered it. Problem is, my employer only allows certain manufacturers due to purchasing and service agreements. Building isn't an option.
- Gravityloss 4y ago
- thefz 4y agoWho cares? MBPs will never see this CPU anyway. Assuming that a CPU is at 100% TDP all the time is a bit naif, too.
- nottorp 4y agoYeah, with Intel's recent definition of TDP the CPU can stay at 300% TDP.
- nindalf 4y agoInteresting choice to double down on a power hungry chip when targeting mobile. Personally I would prioritise battery life and a quiet laptop above other considerations. But perhaps the gaming laptop segment they’re targeting is big enough that it makes sense?
- Mikeb85 4y agoDon't forget workstation laptops that are basically always plugged in.
- flatiron 4y agomy work laptop's CPU sucks 45W: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/201837/intel-core-i710750h-processor-12m-cache-up-to-5-00-ghz.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/201837/... lasts about 90 minutes when not plugged in (it also has a nvidia card to drive a bunch of monitors). is basically only not-plugged in while checking a quick e-mail or something. i have USB-C bricks and cables scattered throughout the house. doesn't particularly bother me.
- macilacilove 4y agoWith severe throttling it might become an energy efficient but slow chip when needed.
- wmf 4y agoThis is kind of a rebrand of the 12900K so it didn't cost much to develop. They have P class and H class processors for laptops that you could actually use on your lap.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago>This is kind of a rebrand of the 12900K so it didn't cost much to develop More correct would be binning instead of rebranding, and no, better binned chips do cost more to weed out from the rest of the silicon, regardless of being identical in design to the rest of the (cheaper) chips, since they can clock higher within the same power envelope due to winning the silicon fab lottery.
- vondur 4y agoThese CPU's appear to be for a niche market, the semi-portable mobile workstation.
- alkonaut 4y agoWhich shouldn’t be niche these days. What developer (for example) doesn’t sit 8h per day 98 days of 100 plugged into a wall socket and using external keyboard/screen? Seems it would be a more common laptop use case than actual mobile use.
- inglor_cz 4y agoI take a train to a far away city sometimes (and I am due to take it more often from October on) and there isn't always a socket available, or I have to share it with someone else in turns (one socket for two or three people).
- mrtweetyhack 4y ago
- ChuckNorris89 4y agoWhy? This exact class of powerful Intel chips were placed in MacBook Pros before the M1 and those were not exactly niche nor workstation class.
- denimnerd42 4y agoI need a chip like this for remote work. I work from my at-home office and company policy doesn't allow desktops at home so we work with H/HX series Intel processors instead. Battery life or weight don't matter at all.
- caycep 4y agosomeone should make cloud desktops for this sort of thing?
- ChuckNorris89 4y agoLaptop OEMs like Eluktronics or XMG have been putting desktop chips in laptops since forever. Have you checked them out? Sounds exactly what you need.
- l-albertovich 4y agoOMG, I just went to Eluktronics' site out of curiosity and saw LPP which sounds AMAZING. I've been thinking of something like that for a long time and seeing it readily available just blew my socks off.
- ChuckNorris89 4y agoWhat a coincidence, Linus did a review yesterday :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH-x2Wgd-0c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH-x2Wgd-0c
- throwaway81523 4y agoI have not felt the need for a very fast laptop given reasonable internet. I just do any heavy computation (builds etc.) on a remote server.
- antisthenes 4y agoYou don't. You need better software. Unless you're encoding video or compiling kernels 24/7 on your local machine. This is the equivalent of asking for a faster horse instead of a car.
- bitL 4y agoMisleading marketing. It has 8 cores and 8 "cores". Hybrid workloads can really kill performance on big.LITTLE architectures.
- kllrnohj 4y agoIntel's efficient cores are not like the little cores of a big.LITTLE. They are still very potent CPU cores in their own right. We're still talking out-of-order cores & all that jazz ( https://www.anandtech.com/show/16881/a-deep-dive-into-intels-alder-lake-microarchitectures/4 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16881/a-deep-dive-into-intels... ). If you have a multithreaded workload that can actually hammer that many cores, you will get decent scaling out of them ( https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Intel-12th-Gen---How-do-P-Cores-and-E-Cores-Compare-2289/ https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Intel-12th-Gen---... )
- bitL 4y agoStill, it's a "Core" core and "Atom" core together, leading to all kinds of unexpected consanguinities. As with M1 benchmarks, what really suffers is the 20%-80% load area, together with the lack of AVX-512 which 11th gen had that might be a deal breaker to some. Also, having 8 efficiency cores is just silly, if you just want to run background tasks with minimal power consumption, how do 8 cores lead to that?
- jeffbee 4y agoThe only thing I can figure out to do on these hybrids is to constrain system junk to the e-cores using a systemd directive, and put all my user session processes on the p-cores in the same fashion. Also necessary to boot with interrupts on the p-cores only, unless you want your nvme and ethernet device performance to be terrible. I'm not sure the complexity is worth it.
- kllrnohj 4y agoThere's still 8P cores, so no the 20-80% load area is not suffering. > Also, having 8 efficiency cores is just silly, if you just want to run background tasks with minimal power consumption, how do 8 cores lead to that? Who said efficient cores must only be for low power background tasks? These efficiency cores are small, very small, so Intel can pack a lot of them into the die. And they provide far far bigger returns on multithreaded workloads than SMT does. As in, given a choice between 2 more P cores (so 10P cores total) or these 8 E cores (so 8p+8e), it's a no brainer to go with the 8 E cores. You get larger multithreading returns with a similar die size cost. And the background power efficiency is just a freebie bonus.
- dmitrygr 4y agoThey rate these things like planes are rated: "1900 mile range, 400mph speed" really means "1900 mile range" OR "400 mph speed" because the range is only at best economy speed, and the top speed will never produce range. Same thing here: stated perf OR stated low power. Power use at max perf: 157W
- hu3 4y agoNice. I might get one to replace my current mobile workstation. Then replace thermal paste with liquid metal and it's good to go. Should stay silent unless running some benchmarks.
- hulitu 4y agoAre all the cores working at full speed at those 55 watts ?
- wmf 4y agoNo, at full speed it consumes 175W.
- johnklos 4y agoIt's a little sad to see Intel trying so hard to be relevant. AMD has really upped the game, and Apple has surprisingly made Intel #3, all in just the last few years. Intel is only relevant when they throw power at their CPUs, which isn't something you want with mobile chips. I genuinely hope they become more competitive soon, since it'll mean better performance and prices for everyone. However, the high power chips really need to go.
- mbrodersen 4y agoNot sad at all. I am glad to see that the market place is working. Punishing companies like Intel that decided to focus more on top management enrichment than quality products. Intel had the chance to do the iPhone CPU and turned it down. Intel was the #1 chip manufacturer in the world but ended up falling behind. Intel had the chance to be the #1 ARM manufacturer in the world but decided not to. And yet the Intel CEO’s who made these decision were all rewarded with massive bonuses. So much for accountability.
- nix23 4y agoDon't be sad, since intel changed from a engineering to a pure money-making firm, it went downhill...they deserve it. So many shady things, blatantly lying to customers and faking benchmarks. I hope they are a getting beaten down until they realize that the are an engineer firm, and if the US is smart, they eventually take over Intel -> "country important products" Intel - From Inventors of the CPU to Laughing Stock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH2nXMv6yZI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH2nXMv6yZI
- teleforce 4y agoIf you're willing to spend USD500 on a new Intel CPU for your new system, you might as well buy the new Xeon W-3300 series CPU (3rd Gen Xeon Scalable). The cheapest W-3300 (W-3323) series is based on Ice Lake architecture, that means it can now suport accelerator for polynomials multiplication and SHA-2 for crypto operations. The lowest specs CPU has 12 cores/24 threads and only cost double compared to Core i9 (around USD1000), however it can support up to 4TB RAM (~30 times more memory than the core i9 max 128GB RAM). But again we're comparing mobile CPU with workstation CPU, i.e. 1/4 of the power, 55 W vs 220 W. If any laptop manufacturer is adopting the Xeon CPU in a laptop workstation (e.g. Thinkpad Extreme), I'll probably buy the laptop in a heartbeat. If we can have a powerful gaming tablet, why not a powerful laptop workstation? [1] [1]Introducing The World's Most Powerful Gaming Tablet: The Rog Flow Z13: https://rog.asus.com/articles/rog-gaming-laptops/2022-rog-flow-z13-announced/ https://rog.asus.com/articles/rog-gaming-laptops/2022-rog-fl...