9 ms·

After losing contact with its helicopter, NASA put the Mars mission on hold

119 points by Stevvo 4y ago

pengaru 4y ago
> They had been closely monitoring the health of their tiny spacecraft, particularly the charge state of its batteries. Is Ingenuity a spacecraft? I thought it was an aircraft/helicopter... is the Martian atmosphere not characterized as containing air?
Rastonbury 4y ago
Put on hold for a day* Almost thought they lost it
- thoughtpalette 4y ago
  Yea, what a click bait headline. Was also worried.
rwmj 4y ago
the engineering team commanded Perseverance to halt all of its ongoing science activities for a full day to essentially sit there and listen intently for Ingenuity's call That sounds like a nerve-racking bit of troubleshooting!
tablespoon 4y ago
> But recently, the small, automated helicopter has had problems with dust accumulating on its solar panels, NASA says. This dust reduces the ability of the vehicle to recharge its six lithium-ion batteries. IIRC, this dust-on-solar-panels problem has been a serious threat to all the Mars rover missions. I wouldn't make sense on a helicopter, but it seems it would be smart to include some kind of emergency-use brush to clean it from the panels as a last-ditch solution on a rover. Especially considering how greatly-"extended" missions seem de rigueur for NASA.
- Rastonbury 4y ago
  When reading up on this, the commonly discussed point is that they expected other parts to fail a lot before the panels are covered in dust. Although I've never found an "official" rationale
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - rtkwe 4y ago
    Modern rovers just use RTGs and avoid the problem all together. Ingenuity couldn't and had to use solar panels but was mostly planned as a test craft so the accumulation problem would happen long after it achieved it's mission goals so it wouldn't cause a mission failure. All of the rovers start with a fairly small mission and it gets extended as it provides good science and congress/NASA finds money to continue to staff the support teams and get time on the Deep Space Network.
- pjc50 4y ago
  This was the first ever exoplanet helicopter, I think they were only 50-50 on whether it would work at all, with a very high risk of some other issue crashing it first.
- topynate 4y ago
  Not for Curiosity and Perseverance, which use RTGs. NASA like RTGs for their big, power-hungry vehicles, and use solar panels on the smaller ones. I guess that one problem is that any brush or compressed air mechanism would have to be particularly light to justify itself, else you might as well design around an RTG instead of solar panels. Rotorcraft are a special case though, because they come with powerful fans attached. Maybe the next rotorcraft will have a way to direct its prop wash over its solar panels.
- wrycoder 4y ago
  Do it like horse race jockeys, who wear multiple pairs of goggles on top of each other, and just rip off the top one when it gets muddy. So, layers of Mylar and a way to peel back or roll away.
boringg 4y ago
Such a great story about ingenuity completely shooting past all that we thought it would be able to achieve. I also like the usage of plucky to describe it. Against all odds...
jffry 4y ago
I hope Ingenuity can survive the Martian winter, but even if it does not, it has been a massively successful mission. Everybody who contributed to it must be incredibly proud of how well it has done!
mkr-hn 4y ago
Just getting (relative) closeups of the discarded landing stuff will probably improve reliability of the next missions all on its own. Knowing what broke, what didn't, how it broke, etc means they can hopefully allow for narrower tolerances and fewer redundances to pack more stuff into the science mission. The next helicopter can check up on its predecessor's remains to make its successor even better. https://mars.nasa.gov/resources/26696/debris-field-from-perseverance-landing-gear-seen-by-mars-helicopter/ https://mars.nasa.gov/resources/26696/debris-field-from-pers... https://mars.nasa.gov/resources/26694/rovers-backshell-seen-from-the-air/ https://mars.nasa.gov/resources/26694/rovers-backshell-seen-... https://mars.nasa.gov/resources/26695/rover-landing-gear-seen-from-the-air-by-mars-helicopter/ https://mars.nasa.gov/resources/26695/rover-landing-gear-see...
- lumost 4y ago
  It's very expensive to send a science mission to check on the remains of a previous mission. Odds are the next helicopter will be sent somewhere far away from the original.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Maybe Musk can plan his summer house there and post some pics to Twitter?
    - ASalazarMX 4y ago
      2030: After losing contact with his summer house, Elon Musk put the Mars mission on hold.
  - KineticLensman 4y ago
    > It's very expensive to send a science mission to check on the remains of a previous mission. Apollo 12 intentionally landed within walking distance of Surveyor 3 [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_12 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_12
- crispyambulance 4y ago
geocrasher 4y ago
The amount of absolutely insane engineering that happens on these mission is outstanding all on its own- then you go and add stunts like this, and it makes you realize something: The folks doing this stuff are just like the rest of us. They're hackers, but they have billion dollar stuff to hack on. And, they're likely far better at it than the rest of us. Still, we're cut from the same cloth. Love it.
- varispeed 4y ago
  - randrews 4y ago
    Why is it whenever someone says something unifying and wholesome like gp, someone like you isn't too far behind to remind everyone to feel bad about themselves?
    - mathgladiator 4y ago
      Bitterness is deep in some.
      - randrews 4y ago
        Yep. Not to mention it's objectively not true: I worked at NASA for years, most people working there aren't rich, it pays less than most other engineering jobs. One of my parents worked there and we weren't rich when I was growing up. Nobody was paying for private schools or tutors or things... I had a stack of cheap books from a used bookstore and a handful of surplus nonworking computers that would have been thrown out.
        dqpb 4y ago
        > I had a stack of cheap books from a used bookstore and a handful of surplus nonworking computers that would have been thrown out. And a parent who worked an NASA. I agree I don't think excessive privilege is responsible for success in technical fields. But it sure doesn't hurt to have friends or family members already on the inside.
scohesc 4y ago
This is probably a silly question - but what are the complications of mitigating dust sticking to devices like solar panels on mars? My inexperienced mind thinks of things like windshield wipers, maybe some electronics to oppose the static forces of dust sticking to the panels? We sure can't send someone over there every 6 months to wash the panels off, that's for sure.
- twinkletwinkle_ 4y ago
  The helicopter is already outside its original mission parameters. It was only supposed to make 5 flights - probably the engineering team didn't want to invest money or weight or complexity in something they knew wouldn't be an issue during their originally scheduled timeframe.
- JKCalhoun 4y ago
  Yeah, I've been thinking electrostatics.
oxplot 4y ago
> The achievement of powered flight on another world is one of the great spaceflight feats of the last decade. Really? Could someone with more knowledge about this outline how different the Mars copter is from a run of the mill quad copter?

119 points by Stevvo 4y ago

> They had been closely monitoring the health of their tiny spacecraft, particularly the charge state of its batteries. Is Ingenuity a spacecraft? I thought it was an aircraft/helicopter... is the Martian atmosphere not characterized as containing air?

Rastonbury 4y ago

Put on hold for a day* Almost thought they lost it

thoughtpalette 4y ago
Yea, what a click bait headline. Was also worried.

rwmj 4y ago

the engineering team commanded Perseverance to halt all of its ongoing science activities for a full day to essentially sit there and listen intently for Ingenuity's call That sounds like a nerve-racking bit of troubleshooting!

tablespoon 4y ago

> But recently, the small, automated helicopter has had problems with dust accumulating on its solar panels, NASA says. This dust reduces the ability of the vehicle to recharge its six lithium-ion batteries. IIRC, this dust-on-solar-panels problem has been a serious threat to all the Mars rover missions. I wouldn't make sense on a helicopter, but it seems it would be smart to include some kind of emergency-use brush to clean it from the panels as a last-ditch solution on a rover. Especially considering how greatly-"extended" missions seem de rigueur for NASA.

Rastonbury 4y ago
When reading up on this, the commonly discussed point is that they expected other parts to fail a lot before the panels are covered in dust. Although I've never found an "official" rationale
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- rtkwe 4y ago
  Modern rovers just use RTGs and avoid the problem all together. Ingenuity couldn't and had to use solar panels but was mostly planned as a test craft so the accumulation problem would happen long after it achieved it's mission goals so it wouldn't cause a mission failure. All of the rovers start with a fairly small mission and it gets extended as it provides good science and congress/NASA finds money to continue to staff the support teams and get time on the Deep Space Network.
pjc50 4y ago
This was the first ever exoplanet helicopter, I think they were only 50-50 on whether it would work at all, with a very high risk of some other issue crashing it first.
topynate 4y ago
Not for Curiosity and Perseverance, which use RTGs. NASA like RTGs for their big, power-hungry vehicles, and use solar panels on the smaller ones. I guess that one problem is that any brush or compressed air mechanism would have to be particularly light to justify itself, else you might as well design around an RTG instead of solar panels. Rotorcraft are a special case though, because they come with powerful fans attached. Maybe the next rotorcraft will have a way to direct its prop wash over its solar panels.
wrycoder 4y ago
Do it like horse race jockeys, who wear multiple pairs of goggles on top of each other, and just rip off the top one when it gets muddy. So, layers of Mylar and a way to peel back or roll away.

boringg 4y ago

Such a great story about ingenuity completely shooting past all that we thought it would be able to achieve. I also like the usage of plucky to describe it. Against all odds...

jffry 4y ago

I hope Ingenuity can survive the Martian winter, but even if it does not, it has been a massively successful mission. Everybody who contributed to it must be incredibly proud of how well it has done!

mkr-hn 4y ago

Just getting (relative) closeups of the discarded landing stuff will probably improve reliability of the next missions all on its own. Knowing what broke, what didn't, how it broke, etc means they can hopefully allow for narrower tolerances and fewer redundances to pack more stuff into the science mission. The next helicopter can check up on its predecessor's remains to make its successor even better. https://mars.nasa.gov/resources/26696/debris-field-from-perseverance-landing-gear-seen-by-mars-helicopter/ https://mars.nasa.gov/resources/26696/debris-field-from-pers... https://mars.nasa.gov/resources/26694/rovers-backshell-seen-from-the-air/ https://mars.nasa.gov/resources/26694/rovers-backshell-seen-... https://mars.nasa.gov/resources/26695/rover-landing-gear-seen-from-the-air-by-mars-helicopter/ https://mars.nasa.gov/resources/26695/rover-landing-gear-see...

lumost 4y ago
It's very expensive to send a science mission to check on the remains of a previous mission. Odds are the next helicopter will be sent somewhere far away from the original.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Maybe Musk can plan his summer house there and post some pics to Twitter?
  - ASalazarMX 4y ago
    2030: After losing contact with his summer house, Elon Musk put the Mars mission on hold.
- KineticLensman 4y ago
  > It's very expensive to send a science mission to check on the remains of a previous mission. Apollo 12 intentionally landed within walking distance of Surveyor 3 [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_12 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_12
crispyambulance 4y ago

geocrasher 4y ago

The amount of absolutely insane engineering that happens on these mission is outstanding all on its own- then you go and add stunts like this, and it makes you realize something: The folks doing this stuff are just like the rest of us. They're hackers, but they have billion dollar stuff to hack on. And, they're likely far better at it than the rest of us. Still, we're cut from the same cloth. Love it.

varispeed 4y ago
- randrews 4y ago
  Why is it whenever someone says something unifying and wholesome like gp, someone like you isn't too far behind to remind everyone to feel bad about themselves?
  - mathgladiator 4y ago
    Bitterness is deep in some.
    - randrews 4y ago
      Yep. Not to mention it's objectively not true: I worked at NASA for years, most people working there aren't rich, it pays less than most other engineering jobs. One of my parents worked there and we weren't rich when I was growing up. Nobody was paying for private schools or tutors or things... I had a stack of cheap books from a used bookstore and a handful of surplus nonworking computers that would have been thrown out.
      - dqpb 4y ago
        > I had a stack of cheap books from a used bookstore and a handful of surplus nonworking computers that would have been thrown out. And a parent who worked an NASA. I agree I don't think excessive privilege is responsible for success in technical fields. But it sure doesn't hurt to have friends or family members already on the inside.

scohesc 4y ago

This is probably a silly question - but what are the complications of mitigating dust sticking to devices like solar panels on mars? My inexperienced mind thinks of things like windshield wipers, maybe some electronics to oppose the static forces of dust sticking to the panels? We sure can't send someone over there every 6 months to wash the panels off, that's for sure.

twinkletwinkle_ 4y ago
The helicopter is already outside its original mission parameters. It was only supposed to make 5 flights - probably the engineering team didn't want to invest money or weight or complexity in something they knew wouldn't be an issue during their originally scheduled timeframe.
JKCalhoun 4y ago
Yeah, I've been thinking electrostatics.

oxplot 4y ago

> The achievement of powered flight on another world is one of the great spaceflight feats of the last decade. Really? Could someone with more knowledge about this outline how different the Mars copter is from a run of the mill quad copter?