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^This a thousand times over. The workers' benefits we enjoy today in Europe like 8 hour workdays, minimum 20 days vacation, paid sick leave, free healthcare, pe

^This a thousand times over. The workers' benefits we enjoy today in Europe like 8 hour workdays, minimum 20 days vacation, paid sick leave, free healthcare, pensions, unemployment benefits, etc. were due to the communist movements sweeping Europe after WW2 which governments and industrialists fought hard to suppress so they had to give concessions to the workers in order to keep their business afloat and prevent them from rioting/striking. But, the collective labor pushback has stopped since the great offshoring took over in the last 30 years thanks to globalization, and various labor unions lost their power as the great industrialists moved the labor intensive jobs overseas where they could easily enforce their 19-th century norms and environmentally damaging practices and make killer profits, which in term bought them more lobbying power and political influence back home to push for lax immigration and lax trade policies with oppressive regimes, to further water down local wages and working conditions to "increase economic competitiveness" with those oppressive regimes. Now we're slowly moving back to longer working hours and worse working conditions, but not by force like in the past, but by making housing and living so insanely expensive and getting a job so competitive, that the only chance people have is to willingly sacrifice the quality of life to get a head start in the rat race over everyone else, unless they were lucky enough to inherit some generational wealth that has appreciated, like a house. Couple this with economic policies where at every crisis or dip in the economy, the well off, asset holder and big companies get further boosted up and amass even more wealth, while the lesser well off and small business go bust and end up worse off and pushed "further back on the monopoly board".

imranq 5y ago
Is getting a job so competitive? Last I heard there was a labor shortage
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  If there really was a shortage, employers would offer concessions, better working conditions, WFH, more vacation days, etc. Just look at truck drivers or hospitality for example. Just because employers say it's a shortage doesn't always make it true or it doesn't mean it's not their fault for the shortage for refusing to offer better conditions. Depends on the field of course, but from my experience interviewing in tech, the market is very competitive now in my area in Europe for those without a lot of experience, and employers are not willing to offer any concessions besides the minimums mandated by law. Asking for full WFH is also out of the questions most of the time. This signals to me that there is no shortage, otherwise employers would be more accommodating for this. In my country there is also a perpetual shortage of doctors and nursing staff in the public sector despite an abundance of them in the private sector. So the shortage is purely because the government is not offering the right financial incentives and working conditions for them to stay in the public sector. My point is that "shortage" is always relative and we should look at the full story and the complete context to understand where it comes from and why it's happening, because without context I'm also having a perpetual shortage of Ferraris and Lamborghinis, though the full story is that my budget is $5000 and not a cent more, yet that information kind of changes and explains everything. So, in conclusion, most of the times, "shortage of workers" just means people unwilling to work for the poor conditions and compensation being offered by employers, not that there's a shortage of people capable of doing said work or capable of learning to do it if offered the chance/training.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
    I think there are several factors that play into this and beyond the points you mentioned, I wanted to introduce one more. Size of the companies appears to matter when it comes to accommodations. In my industry, companies are effectively offering the same WFH policy across the board making people like me suspicious that CEOs banded together to discuss 'best practices', but anecdata from social circle suggests that smaller companies do work to accommodate people they want to keep.
- ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
  There's a shortage of people willing to work in terrible conditions. I'd usually add "for a pittance," but I see FAANG (is it now "MAANG"?) companies offering pretty insane salaries, but they are notorious for difficult working conditions.
  - maxfurman 5y ago
    I've seen "MANGA" lately, but everyone still knows what you mean by FAANG
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - pmoriarty 5y ago
    Finance is another industry notorious for working their employees like slaves. Which I never understood, as these are some of the richest companies in the world, which could easily afford to hire more people instead of overworking the ones they had. Doctors and nurses are also infamously overworked, with crazy shifts and lack of sleep being the norm. This is even more unconscionable as lack of sleep can lead to mistakes where patients die.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
      Here in NY, many of my friends were once traders or brokers, in Finance. They passed their Series 7 (or whatever), and worked a few years in brokerages or banks. Pretty much universally, they report the experience was a tornado, and they could only manage it for a few years. But they made a lot of money. The smart ones, lived humbly, and saved up, using their earnings to do things like start small businesses. It’s kind of surprising, to talk to a painter, or shopkeeper, and have them tell you about their “days on The Floor.”
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  "Last I heard there was a labor shortage" For a counter, see the following article on demand outstripping supply of remote jobs: [1] In some fields, like tech, there's a strong demand, but not so in plenty of others -- especially if you as a worker make the unreasonable demand to be paid a living wage or not be worked to the point of burnout. [1] - https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20220421-are-there-enough-remote-jobs-for-everyone-who-wants-one https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20220421-are-there-enou...
- api 5y ago
  There is a shortage of people willing to work shitty jobs for shitty pay. Employers could fix this by either making the job less shitty or raising the pay. The inflation complaint is similar. We've had ludicrous inflation in housing, college tuition, health care, and many other things for over a decade. Inflation is not a problem until it starts to hit wages and supply chains.
mschuster91 5y ago
> But, the collective labor pushback has stopped since the great offshoring took over in the last 30 years thanks to globalization, and various labor unions lost their power Not just that. A large portion of the loss of influence of unions was the riseup of the pacifist dogma. Just look how all the benefits were won: by (sometimes extremely) brutal violence, by the blood of the workers who died by the hands and guns of corporate goons [1]. A very good example is the social structure and workers rights of the two neighboring countries France and Germany. French workers are routinely willing and able to commit to violence both in the office (in the form of "bossnapping") and on the streets and the public supports that, and when German protests escalate into a couple of banks getting redecorated with paint, concerned citizens turn up to clean the fucking bank [2]! As a result of that difference in attitude, German workers have it way worse than French workers - politicians in France know that the cost of going against the people is high. A society that doesn't fight for its rights eventually gets taken over by those that do. Democracy is not god-given, it is earned by blood and needs continuous maintenance, otherwise it erodes. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/the-10-biggest-strikes-in-u-s-history-4773384 https://www.investopedia.com/the-10-biggest-strikes-in-u-s-h... [2] https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/g20-in-hamburg-buerger-raeumen-schanzenviertel-nach-verwuestungen-auf-a-1156889.html https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/g20-in-hamburg-bu...
- blueflow 5y ago
  Re G20: The people making the mess were young activists, the article even mentions their group affiliation by name. They are not the working class, they are a nuisance to the working class. I'd be in favor of classifying them as terrorists.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    >I'd be in favor of classifying them as terrorists Same with Antifa. Some protestors are basically just mindless hooligans and their protests and property damage are harming the small business and working class people a lot more than the politicians and the ruling class. Like during the protests in France I kept seeing many mid-range Renault/Peugeot/Citroens on fire on the streets of Paris. Chances are those were most likely the cars working class people used to get to work the next day and not the cars of fat-cats. I agree with protesting violently against governments but what use is destroying working class property?
lupire 5y ago
It's little weird to slip tight-immigrarion into your communist manifesto. Immigration is only a problem when workers are forced to compete for livelihood. Immigrants crrate demand which creates more work opportunity.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  Except you are competing for livelihood. The supply of real estate, doctors, schools, teachers, jobs, is very inelastic, all of which is needed for the newly arrived.

imranq 5y ago

Is getting a job so competitive? Last I heard there was a labor shortage

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
If there really was a shortage, employers would offer concessions, better working conditions, WFH, more vacation days, etc. Just look at truck drivers or hospitality for example. Just because employers say it's a shortage doesn't always make it true or it doesn't mean it's not their fault for the shortage for refusing to offer better conditions. Depends on the field of course, but from my experience interviewing in tech, the market is very competitive now in my area in Europe for those without a lot of experience, and employers are not willing to offer any concessions besides the minimums mandated by law. Asking for full WFH is also out of the questions most of the time. This signals to me that there is no shortage, otherwise employers would be more accommodating for this. In my country there is also a perpetual shortage of doctors and nursing staff in the public sector despite an abundance of them in the private sector. So the shortage is purely because the government is not offering the right financial incentives and working conditions for them to stay in the public sector. My point is that "shortage" is always relative and we should look at the full story and the complete context to understand where it comes from and why it's happening, because without context I'm also having a perpetual shortage of Ferraris and Lamborghinis, though the full story is that my budget is $5000 and not a cent more, yet that information kind of changes and explains everything. So, in conclusion, most of the times, "shortage of workers" just means people unwilling to work for the poor conditions and compensation being offered by employers, not that there's a shortage of people capable of doing said work or capable of learning to do it if offered the chance/training.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
  I think there are several factors that play into this and beyond the points you mentioned, I wanted to introduce one more. Size of the companies appears to matter when it comes to accommodations. In my industry, companies are effectively offering the same WFH policy across the board making people like me suspicious that CEOs banded together to discuss 'best practices', but anecdata from social circle suggests that smaller companies do work to accommodate people they want to keep.
ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
There's a shortage of people willing to work in terrible conditions. I'd usually add "for a pittance," but I see FAANG (is it now "MAANG"?) companies offering pretty insane salaries, but they are notorious for difficult working conditions.
- maxfurman 5y ago
  I've seen "MANGA" lately, but everyone still knows what you mean by FAANG
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  Finance is another industry notorious for working their employees like slaves. Which I never understood, as these are some of the richest companies in the world, which could easily afford to hire more people instead of overworking the ones they had. Doctors and nurses are also infamously overworked, with crazy shifts and lack of sleep being the norm. This is even more unconscionable as lack of sleep can lead to mistakes where patients die.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
    Here in NY, many of my friends were once traders or brokers, in Finance. They passed their Series 7 (or whatever), and worked a few years in brokerages or banks. Pretty much universally, they report the experience was a tornado, and they could only manage it for a few years. But they made a lot of money. The smart ones, lived humbly, and saved up, using their earnings to do things like start small businesses. It’s kind of surprising, to talk to a painter, or shopkeeper, and have them tell you about their “days on The Floor.”
pmoriarty 5y ago
"Last I heard there was a labor shortage" For a counter, see the following article on demand outstripping supply of remote jobs: [1] In some fields, like tech, there's a strong demand, but not so in plenty of others -- especially if you as a worker make the unreasonable demand to be paid a living wage or not be worked to the point of burnout. [1] - https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20220421-are-there-enough-remote-jobs-for-everyone-who-wants-one https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20220421-are-there-enou...
api 5y ago
There is a shortage of people willing to work shitty jobs for shitty pay. Employers could fix this by either making the job less shitty or raising the pay. The inflation complaint is similar. We've had ludicrous inflation in housing, college tuition, health care, and many other things for over a decade. Inflation is not a problem until it starts to hit wages and supply chains.

mschuster91 5y ago

> But, the collective labor pushback has stopped since the great offshoring took over in the last 30 years thanks to globalization, and various labor unions lost their power Not just that. A large portion of the loss of influence of unions was the riseup of the pacifist dogma. Just look how all the benefits were won: by (sometimes extremely) brutal violence, by the blood of the workers who died by the hands and guns of corporate goons [1]. A very good example is the social structure and workers rights of the two neighboring countries France and Germany. French workers are routinely willing and able to commit to violence both in the office (in the form of "bossnapping") and on the streets and the public supports that, and when German protests escalate into a couple of banks getting redecorated with paint, concerned citizens turn up to clean the fucking bank [2]! As a result of that difference in attitude, German workers have it way worse than French workers - politicians in France know that the cost of going against the people is high. A society that doesn't fight for its rights eventually gets taken over by those that do. Democracy is not god-given, it is earned by blood and needs continuous maintenance, otherwise it erodes. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/the-10-biggest-strikes-in-u-s-history-4773384 https://www.investopedia.com/the-10-biggest-strikes-in-u-s-h... [2] https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/g20-in-hamburg-buerger-raeumen-schanzenviertel-nach-verwuestungen-auf-a-1156889.html https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/g20-in-hamburg-bu...

blueflow 5y ago
Re G20: The people making the mess were young activists, the article even mentions their group affiliation by name. They are not the working class, they are a nuisance to the working class. I'd be in favor of classifying them as terrorists.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >I'd be in favor of classifying them as terrorists Same with Antifa. Some protestors are basically just mindless hooligans and their protests and property damage are harming the small business and working class people a lot more than the politicians and the ruling class. Like during the protests in France I kept seeing many mid-range Renault/Peugeot/Citroens on fire on the streets of Paris. Chances are those were most likely the cars working class people used to get to work the next day and not the cars of fat-cats. I agree with protesting violently against governments but what use is destroying working class property?

lupire 5y ago

It's little weird to slip tight-immigrarion into your communist manifesto. Immigration is only a problem when workers are forced to compete for livelihood. Immigrants crrate demand which creates more work opportunity.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
Except you are competing for livelihood. The supply of real estate, doctors, schools, teachers, jobs, is very inelastic, all of which is needed for the newly arrived.