12 ms·

Long-Chain Omega-3 Fatty Acids Improve Brain Function, Structure in Older Adults (2014)

186 points by alwillis 4y ago

LarsAlereon 4y ago
I can't guarantee it's not the placebo effect, but I've personally felt better since I started taking NOW Ultra Omega 3-D, which is 1200mg of fish oil concentrate containing 900mg of Omega 3s and 1000 IU of Vitamin D. Many brands offer similar products that work perfectly fine so I don't want to sound like a shill, but from my research with sources like ConsumerLab.com this particular version seemed to offer the lowest cost per verifiable amount of active Omega 3s.
- pstuart 4y ago
  ConsumerLab looks intriguing but rather spendy w/o giving a sense of range/depth/quality of reviews.
  - greggsy 4y ago
    Labdoor is another testing site. https://labdoor.com/rankings/fish-oil https://labdoor.com/rankings/fish-oil The main problem with these sites is that many - if not all - brands and products are US-centric, which makes the reviews fairly useless in the rest of the world.
    - r1ch 4y ago
      I tried the top rated Omega 3 from labdoor for 6 months, it's incredibly expensive and I noticed no difference at all from my generic brand. A lot of the lower labdoor scores come from label inaccuracy rather than anything seriously wrong with the actual product.
- PostOnce 4y ago
  I wouldn't have commented if they didn't name it "Ultra Omega 3-D" which is about as bad as the quantum nano shampoo with techron they try to sell me. One can of sardines has >2x the omega 3s and is less likely to be counterfeit or adulterated as many suppliments have been found to be. The vitamin D is another matter though, harder to get enough of in winter, but also easier to overdose on with suppliments.
  - kmmlng 4y ago
    With sardines you are of course introducing the mercury issue. Vitamin D dosage is a surprisingly controversial topic, with many voices claiming the recommended dose is much too low and you are very unlikely to overdose if you are not taking completely unreasonable amounts of it.
    - reducesuffering 4y ago
      Sardines are at the bottom of the food chain, their levels are pretty low; really low for fish.
      - Aromasin 4y ago
        If anything, you might be better with a food like Mussels/Clams/Oysters. They have the lowest levels of mercury [1], and if you're so ethically inclined, some of the lowest capacity for pain or sentience in the animal kingdom. [1] https://www.fda.gov/food/metals-and-your-food/mercury-levels-commercial-fish-and-shellfish-1990-2012 https://www.fda.gov/food/metals-and-your-food/mercury-levels...
    - saiya-jin 4y ago
      If I would have to choose only 1 fish to eat purely for health benefits, it would be sardines. They don't live long enough and are low enough in food chain to not accumulate much metals and other crap.
    - RajT88 4y ago
      As others have pointed out, Mercury in sardines is as low as it gets. Mercury is actually not that big a deal if you are an adult male, or a woman who is done having kids. The main issue with it is developmental issues in children. Unrelated: IMO, Sardines are the most delicious fish.
  - have_faith 4y ago
    > but also easier to overdose on with suppliments I was under the impression that vitamin D is one of the harder supplements to overdose on and people don't take enough generally, is that not the case? (I don't take any).
pinewurst 4y ago
(2014)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Copenjin 4y ago
I've always a lot of doubts on the quality of fish oil supplements being sold (not only for the amount of omega 3 but also for the content of less desirable chemicals derived from farmed fish), and also there has been a lot of research downplaying various omega3 supposed benefits over the years.
- jonmc12 4y ago
  See Labdoor.com and Consumerlab.com to verify supplement quality. There are some good meta studies on Omega-3s. Dr Bradley Stanfield[1] walks through Mayo Clinic meta analysis[2]. Rhonda Patrick[3] is the best resource for an interpretation of the data. TLDR; consume enough omega-3s (DHA/EPA) to get omega-3 index above 8.0. Discrepancies in research outcomes are attributed to study design, methodology of measuring intake, methodology of measuring blood. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58RkZy6FEco&ab_channel=DrBradStanfield https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58RkZy6FEco&ab_channel=DrBra... [2] https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(20)30985-X/fulltext https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(20)... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcvhERcZpWw&t=2108s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcvhERcZpWw&t=2108s
  - swader999 4y ago
    Only kind that doesn't give me massive boils on my forehead is "Carlson, very finest fish oil" expensive...
    - bitexploder 4y ago
      You have a fish allergy I assume?
      - swader999 4y ago
        I don't think so.
- adrian_b 4y ago
  It is very good to be skeptical about the composition of the food you buy, and to check as much as possible which it is. However, when you buy some kind of fish oil for which the vendor provides precise values for its content in DHA, EPA and vitamin D, and you buy this in a country where such false claims are punished, you can be reasonably certain about the quality of the oil. I have not seen a vendor publishing the admissible content of mercury, but in most countries there are legal limits for it. I have seen a few studies where random samples taken from various fish oil commercial products were analyzed for mercury, and in most cases the content was significantly lower than encountered in most fish meat that is sold. Also one would eat much less fish oil per day, e.g. at most a spoon, than one would eat fish meat, when choosing a fish dish. I agree that unfortunately, due to the human stupidity in managing waste, now eating any fish-derived products implies some risks. However, in the case of fish oil obtained from some reputable source, I believe that the benefits outweigh the risks. The only good alternative to fish oil is the oil obtained from cultures of some unicellular living beings, but that is about 8 times more expensive than fish oil, so few people can afford it in the quantities that are needed for the recommended daily intake. Regarding the research downplaying the "omega3 supposed benefits", I have read many such studies and the conclusions were mostly opposite. While in many cases there could not be observed any effects from taking various vitamin supplements, there were nonetheless in most cases measurable good effects from the use of omega3 supplements. The reason for this is easy to understand. Any kind of vitamin, mineral or omega3 supplements can have effects only when the food eaten is deficient in those substances, otherwise there is no effect. Someone who eats large quantities of food obtained from animals will not need any kind of omega3 supplements. On the other hand someone who is either vegan or eats mostly vegetable food, will need omega3 supplements, like also vitamin D and vitamin B12 supplements. I am not vegan, but I eat mostly vegetable food, so I add some cod liver oil to the olive oil that I put in my food, to ensure an adequate daily intake of DHA, EPA and vitamin D.
zsolt224 4y ago
There are 3 types of omega3: 1. Trigliceride 2. Ethyl ester 3. Re-esterified trigliceride Almost all suplements sold are ethyl ester which means poor absorption and fast degradation (rancid). Always buy triglycerides. If you take ethyl ester, make sure it’s fresh and take it with fatty food
- dustingetz 4y ago
  what brand?
- stinos 4y ago
  Could you post sources? I feel this is especially wanted for free dietary advice on the internet. Not saying that you're wrong, I simply don't know, but just a quick search on 'bioavailability of n-3 fatty acids' show a lot of research which goes various ways and not necessarily confirming what you say here.
  - andy_ppp 4y ago
    This probably covers it, not sure if the original papers are mentioned in here but I haven't heard of these guys misleading people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcvhERcZpWw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcvhERcZpWw
    - bacr 4y ago
      It does indeed cover it, starting at the 35 minute mark. It’ll require some more digging if you want the primary sources they reference.
- alecco 4y ago
  But those registered krill oils are way more expensive. Alleged absorption improvement is 2.5x (in only 1 study AFAIK). Just take more cheaper algae or fish oil. This all smells of krill oil manufacturer marketing. And who knows who funded that study.
  - 4y ago
djmips 4y ago
What do you do if you are allergic to fish but don't want to take supplements?
- triyambakam 4y ago
  Algae oil. That's what I take as a vegan, and I also eat ground flax and chia in smoothies regularly
  - stefantalpalaru 4y ago
  - pure_simplicity 4y ago
    ALA (short chain omega 3) is very important to get. It is converted to DHA/EPA, but the conversion efficiency depends on the ratio between your omega 6 and omega 3 intake. The same enzyme that converts ALA to DHA converts omega 6 to the inflamatory arachidonic acid. Since omega 6 is so abundant in most oil rich foods, you have to be mindful of how much you ingest relative to ALA omega 3, which is harder to come by. Hence the algea oil is important too, because it contians pre-formed DHA/EPA Just to give some bacground info.
    - triyambakam 4y ago
      Thanks for the further detail! I don't eat any processed foods. My diet is dals and pulses, fresh fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds. Breakfast is e.g. masoor dal, lunch is apples, mangos and strawberries with ground flax, then lobhiya, and dinner greens or broccoli, fermented veggies, onion and chana.
- ddorian43 4y ago
  Eat more ruminant red meat.
  - pure_simplicity 4y ago
    That would have to be grass fed for best results. it's the ALA (short chain omega 3) in the greens that get converted to DHA/EPA so grain fed won't have a lot of omega 3. You can observe this difference in the butter from grass fed versus grain fed: thd grass fed derived butter melts at lower temperatures because of the higher omega 3. However you can also take algea or algea derived omega 3 supplements, i think the species is called nannochloropsis gaditana, and it has vegan omega 3, so probably causes no issues with fish allergies.
nwienert 4y ago
I have a collagen issue and so googled for studies about omega 3 and collagen the other day. Was surprised to find a strong negative result for wound healing and collagen formation (in mice, but the effect size means something) https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-45508-1 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-45508-1 It’s interesting to note the anti-inflammatory effect seems directly responsible for slowing healing (where you want it), and that this may be broadly applicable. We don’t always want less inflammation, everywhere.
- stephen_g 4y ago
  For anybody without any specific issues like yours, surely this effect would be hardly observable? They administered 2 g/kg every day for four weeks, which is absolutely massive, whereas most people eating a lot of fish might be eating at most 0.05 g/kg of EPA/DHA, and that would probably only be a couple of days days a week… I take “high strength” fish oil supplements (for an autoimmune condition), and that only has 900 mg of triglycerides per capsule (1.5g of fish oil), which for me is 0.01 g/kg. I usually take two, except on days I eat salmon, when I only have one.
sendfoods 4y ago
Flaxseeds contain short-chain omega-3s, algae contain very long-chain omega 3s. Is anyone aware of another plant containing long-chain omega 3s in significant quantities?
- adrian_b 4y ago
  No plants contain long-chain omega-3 fatty acids. Besides flaxseeds, walnuts have also a large content of short-chain omega-3 fatty acids. Walnuts were my preferred source of omega-3 fatty acids when I was young. The problem is that the short-chain fatty acids must be elongated in the liver to become useful. For many people, the elongation capacity per day of the liver is not enough to provide a sufficient quantity of long-chain fatty acids. Because the fatty-acid elongation capacity of the liver decreases with age, for older people it is much more important to eat food with long-chain omega-3 fatty acids, e.g. fish oil or oily fish, than it is for young people, for whom flaxseeds or walnuts may be enough. That is why in the parent article the conclusion was that the long-chain omega-3 fatty acid supplements have been more effective for older people. There are unicellular micro-organisms which produce long-chain omega-3 fatty acids. They can be cultivated and the oil extracted from them is available commercially, but at prices 8 times higher than the price of fish oil (for the same quantity of DHA or EPA). Moreover, different cultures must be used for DHA and for EPA, so for a complete supplement 2 oils would have to be mixed. Because a single producer usually has only the technology for a single type of culture, in most cases one would have to buy both a DHA oil and an EPA oil and consume both supplements. In contrast, fish oil from oily fish has both DHA and EPA, while cod liver oil has DHA, EPA and also vitamin D.
- derbOac 4y ago
  Camelina sativa — the oil of which I've sometimes seen in groceries — is similar to flax in omega 3 content. Varieties with high DHA content have been genetically engineered, although I haven't seen that sold retail.
mark_l_watson 4y ago
I hope that I am doing this correctly: I eat about 1 1/2 tablespoons of chia seeds a day. I soak them for an hour and then put them in whatever I am eating. I prefer to not eat much fish oil. EDIT: after just reading the comments here, I just order some vegan algae oil for omega 3 to add to the soaked chia seeds. I try hard to avoid all foods with omega 6.
- stevespang 4y ago
- stevespang 4y ago
- hsn915 4y ago
  Omega 6 is also an essential oil. You should not reduce it to zero. It just happens to be everywhere you end up consuming a lot more than necessary.
  - xutopia 4y ago
    I don't remember the study but ratios of Omega 6 to Omega 3 can matter if you are prone to inflammation. In our North American diet Omega 6 is nearly unavoidable in amounts that hurt some folks with inflammation.
- johnsimer 4y ago
  I don’t think you are doing this correctly Most of omega 3 benefits come from EPA and DHA. Not ALA. chia seeds have mainly ALA. Your body will only convert some of ALA into EPA, but not much. If you are trying to avoid fish oil, you could try krill oil
  - bch 4y ago
    > If you are trying to avoid fish oil, you could try krill oil Curious - what about fish oil is to-be-avoided but lets krill be a suitable substitute?
daralthus 4y ago
Isn't the Omega-3 to Omega-6 ratio the more important over just consuming enough Omega-3?
- oofbey 4y ago
  I’ve read this but always had a hard time believing it. Why would the omega 6/3 ratio matter? Seems like a falsehood peddled by people trying to convince you to buy more expensive unsustainable hunted fish.
  - throwamon 4y ago
    > Why would the omega 6/3 ratio matter? You might also ask yourself: Why would the HDL/LDL ratio matter? Why would mineral ratios matter? This pattern is not unique to Omega 3. Search for "micronutrient ratios", also timing the consumption of certain vitamins and minerals, fiber, etc. Nutrition isn't just about putting enough molecules into your body.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > I’ve read this but always had a hard time believing it. Why would the omega 6/3 ratio matter? Seems like a falsehood peddled by people trying to convince you to buy more expensive unsustainable hunted fish. What I read 20 years ago when Omega 3s were starting to be a thing, is that Omega 3s are processed into certain anti-inflammatory compounds, and Omega 6s into certain pro-inflammatory compounds. "Natural" diets had the two fats balanced, but modern Western diets have reduced Omega 3s and increased Omega 6s, leading to more inflammation. IIRC, one big mechanism for the change is feeding our food crappy food to increase production (e.g. switching from typically grass-fed to typically grain-fed beef).
tintedfireglass 4y ago
I'm vegetarian The only animal food I eat are milk products and honey. From where do I get my omegas from?
- tomweingarten 4y ago
  You can get them from the same place the fish get them from, algae! Like many micronutrients, fish don't actually produce them, they just accumulate them from non-animal sources. Unfortunately they also accumulate heavy metals, so they're not the cleanest source. Much better and more sustainable to go straight to the source. Just one example: https://www.nordic.com/products/algae-omega/?variant=39472182919352 https://www.nordic.com/products/algae-omega/?variant=3947218...
  - tintedfireglass 4y ago
    Wow, interesting. Thanks :)
- photochemsyn 4y ago
  > "α-Linolenic acid (ALA), (from Greek linon, meaning flax), is an n−3, or omega-3, essential fatty acid. ALA is found in many seeds and oils, including flaxseed, walnuts, chia, hemp, and many common vegetable oils." (wiki1) > "Mammals are unable to synthesize the essential omega−3 fatty acid ALA and can only obtain it through diet. However, they can use ALA, when available, to form EPA and DHA, by creating additional double bonds along its carbon chain (desaturation) and extending it (elongation)." (wiki2) There's a claim that the latter biochemical process (ALA -> EPA, DHA) is negatively impacted as humans age. Is this really true? Who knows, this is the supplement industry we're talking about here. Known for peddling things like shark cartilage as a cure for cancer, etc. (I'm biased: I was a QA lab analyst for a supplement outfit for a while and ended up getting fired over refusing to doctor lead content tests so that bulk imported chinese herbs would pass tests. The company didn't want to hold up production of the hottest latest fad, at the time).
  - tintedfireglass 4y ago
chasd00 4y ago
Who would have thought getting enough Omega3 would be such an involved discussion. This conversation reads like how to choose TheBest(tm) javascript framework.
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
  I just get Costco (Kirkland) frozen salmon. Tastes good, cooks well, not outrageously expensive. I generally keep red meats to a minimum, as well as cheeses, and whatnot (to keep a handle on cholesterol). Otherwise, I don't really get too bent out of shape about trying to be healthy. I walk three miles a day, and don't do much between-meal snacking.
  - caymanjim 4y ago
    Eating cholesterol doesn't raise your blood cholesterol level.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
      Yeah, I know that the effect is minor, but the same foods that have a lot of cholesterol, also tend to have a lot of fats and whatnot, so it's not a bad idea to moderate.
      - caymanjim 4y ago
        Eating fats doesn't raise your blood cholesterol level either. Diet is complicated, but all these myths about cholesterol/fat in leading to blood cholesterol have been debunked. People who avoid eating them tend to eat a lot more carbs and end up with higher cholesterol.
        wbsss4412 4y ago
        I’ve heard of a connection between carb intake and triglycerides, but this is the first I’ve heard about there being a connection to cholesterol levels. Do you have any sources for this?
DantesKite 4y ago
I take fish oil pills. I try not to overcomplicate it lol.
magic5227 4y ago
Omega 3 linked to a fib https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-10-13/another-study-suggests-too-much-fish-oil-could-trigger-a-fib https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-10-13/...
- UncleOxidant 4y ago
  IIRC there have been more recent studies that have narrowed it down to the EPA component being implicated in afib.
- sinenomine 4y ago
  I don't think it should matter much, if there is solid data on omega-3 (DHA) blood levels being correlated with lowered all-cause mortality: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-22370-2 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-22370-2
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- rubicon33 4y ago
  This is exactly why I don’t take supplements. I just eat. Randomly inflating certain micronutrients without actually monitoring their levels is probably way more dangerous than just eating “healthy”.
  - mrandish 4y ago
    Sure, it could be. For those that want to really know what's going on it's better to actually get the data. Fortunately, it's not that hard to do. A couple times a year I track all my dietary intake for a week using an app. I'm not just interested in the macro-nutrients (protein, fat & carbs) but also all the micronutrients. There are apps that are more focused on micronutrients. I can track just a couple of typical one-week samples a year and get a decent ballpark approximation because my normal diet isn't super varied. Vacations and a few special occasions aside, I typically eat mostly the same types things in about the same amounts because I like those things and it's convenient. I decided to spot check micronutrients because for the last five years I've been on a very low carb diet that's working great for me health wise and I've also had significant improvements in cognitive sharpness and emotional stability vs eating a 'normal' diet that made me obese for decades. Because what I eat is fairly limited, I was concerned that over a long time period I might be missing out on some important nutrients. After getting a few data points, I was pleased to learn I was already covering everything my body needs. The only thing I was a little low on was DHA/EPA. While I can eat lots of fish on a VLC diet, I just don't particularly like fish, so I don't choose to eat much. For that reason I've added a high-quality supplement. Except for special cases like mine, I do agree it's entirely possible (and preferable) to cover all your body's nutritional needs with real foods. The challenge is that individual metabolisms can vary. General dietary advice is based on large-scale averages across many individuals. I'd also caution that the typical FDA "Food Pyramid" that is still widely promoted isn't ideal for every individual. My metabolism was certainly an outlier and the recommended 'balanced' diet wasn't working optimally over the long run for me.
mint2 4y ago
I did not realize left handed people were often excluded from trials
- Sparkle-san 4y ago
  They are sinister after all. Jokes aside, exclusions of certain groups, both demographic and people with medical conditions, in trials is a big issue that's still not fully being addressed. Medical trials often end up with candidates with better health than the average person and lean towards white males while psychology experiments are conducted on college students.
civilized 4y ago
Small study, p value just under 0.05. Has it held up?
sysadm1n 4y ago
Omega-3 gets me a little 'wired' sometimes. It's a powerful nootropic. My brain fires on all cylinders because it's now in an optimal state and primed for solving problems. This is generally good, but also sort of annoying since sometimes I just want to chill out and not do anything productive for a day. Otherwise: take it, but avoid taking it, if problem solving is not on the plate.
- bobobob420 4y ago
  To the people reading this..it does not have that effect at all. Please do not take omega-3 because you think its a nootropic
  - whatshisface 4y ago
    Anything can be a nootropic if you have a deficiency.
  - tsol 4y ago
    Eh everyone is different. Some people have weird reactions, I can believe it might make someone feel simulated for some reason. It's probably not a common reaction though
nikolay 4y ago
Just a friendly reminder - toxicity is all about the dose. Never forget what happened to Seth Roberts, who was overdosing on omega-3s! Also, there are tons of studies that most omega-3 sold are rancid and do more harm than good!
pengaru 4y ago
Canned wild sardines in water, drink the liquid before eating. The omega-3s are in the oily spots floating on top, do not drain/discard.
- nikolay 4y ago
  You mean "brisling sardines", i.e. "sprats", right? Because warm-water fish don't have much omega-3s! What's wrong if the sardines are in olive oil?
  - pengaru 4y ago
    No, this is the cheaper decent-quality option available at practically any big box grocer in the states: https://www.amazon.com/Season-Sardines-Water-Added-4-375-Ounce/dp/B000HDOPGA https://www.amazon.com/Season-Sardines-Water-Added-4-375-Oun... The high Omega-3 content is advertised right on the box. Sardines are considered by many as a "super food". Sustainable, low on the food chain, great nutrient profile... Re: in olive oil, I don't know about you but I'm not interested in drinking olive oil. Packed in water is pleasant to drink, it's like drinking fish broth. Not to mention it's far less calories, oil is calorie dense. Nor do they generally use high-quality single source oils in canned fish, that oil is low-quality junk. Most people I know who eat fish packed in oil are actually more interested in eating bread with a side of fish+dipping oil. That's nowhere near resembling my preferred diet, YMMV.
    - nikolay 4y ago
      Olive oil (well, oleic acid) is a sirtuan booster, so, why not?! I personally prefer King Oscar. Sardines truly are a super food - quality protein, stable omega-3s, and tons of other nutrients! A great low-calory nutritionally-dense food for less than a Startbucks coffee!
      - pengaru 4y ago
        Be my guest. I have little interest in drinking even the highest quality oil - and absolutely zero interest in drinking whatever best volume deal of the month they're canning fish in.
JohnWhigham 4y ago
Anyone know any good supplements that are not soybean/corn oil? Pretty much everything at grocery stores is.
- nikolay 4y ago
  Isn't krill oil the safest choice?
nano9 4y ago
I am having a hard time understanding what is "essential" about essential fatty acids. That the body does not produce EPA or DHA is necessary but not sufficient for the claim that humans need to consume n-3 PUFA. The body doesn't endogenously produce amphetamine or cayenne pepper, are those essential too? When the human organism lacks n-3 PUFA, it generates n-9 20:3 LCPUFA (Mead) from 18:1 oleic acid (which makes up over 80% of the lipid content of olive oil). Is this Mead acid of no benefit compared to the n-3 series? Secondly, it seems strange that supplementing n-3 PUFA is so popular, considering the brain seems to mirror overall fatty acid composition of the diet. Throwing in a little n-3 isn't going to change much when you're getting a lot of n-6 AA, and AA in the brain is linked to Alzheimer's and cognitive impairment. Therefore, outside of changing your diet entirely (or trying your best to cut out omega-6), there isn't much of a call to action from these studies.
- nikolay 4y ago
  According to Ray Peat, PUFAs in any amount are toxic to humans. It's so obvious that after we started to consume PUFAs, the mitochondrial dysfunction, and all associated with it chronic diseases and obesity started as well! I've only heard Ray Peat talk about cardiolipin and how detrimental the desaturation of fatty acids is for our health!
- eternalban 4y ago
  You made me curious (and don't know anything about this subject) however the first result in ddg contradicts what you say: https://www.webmd.com/diet/foods-high-in-omega-6 https://www.webmd.com/diet/foods-high-in-omega-6
  - nano9 4y ago
    Sorry, I'm not a biochemist, which is why my post consists of two questions. I do think a diet with plenty of n-3 is good, just not sure how much or what type. But I'm glad I made you curious. Please do more research and form your own conclusions. Also please note that when I wrote AA I meant arachidonic acid, which your link unfortunately does not address. This is also my gripe. Information on fatty acids is extremely basic and sometimes downright condescending, as if all n-3, n-6, n-9 PUFA are the same. They don't seem to be.
NonNefarious 4y ago
NonNefarious 4y ago

186 points by alwillis 4y ago

I can't guarantee it's not the placebo effect, but I've personally felt better since I started taking NOW Ultra Omega 3-D, which is 1200mg of fish oil concentrate containing 900mg of Omega 3s and 1000 IU of Vitamin D. Many brands offer similar products that work perfectly fine so I don't want to sound like a shill, but from my research with sources like ConsumerLab.com this particular version seemed to offer the lowest cost per verifiable amount of active Omega 3s.

pstuart 4y ago
ConsumerLab looks intriguing but rather spendy w/o giving a sense of range/depth/quality of reviews.
- greggsy 4y ago
  Labdoor is another testing site. https://labdoor.com/rankings/fish-oil https://labdoor.com/rankings/fish-oil The main problem with these sites is that many - if not all - brands and products are US-centric, which makes the reviews fairly useless in the rest of the world.
  - r1ch 4y ago
    I tried the top rated Omega 3 from labdoor for 6 months, it's incredibly expensive and I noticed no difference at all from my generic brand. A lot of the lower labdoor scores come from label inaccuracy rather than anything seriously wrong with the actual product.
PostOnce 4y ago
I wouldn't have commented if they didn't name it "Ultra Omega 3-D" which is about as bad as the quantum nano shampoo with techron they try to sell me. One can of sardines has >2x the omega 3s and is less likely to be counterfeit or adulterated as many suppliments have been found to be. The vitamin D is another matter though, harder to get enough of in winter, but also easier to overdose on with suppliments.
- kmmlng 4y ago
  With sardines you are of course introducing the mercury issue. Vitamin D dosage is a surprisingly controversial topic, with many voices claiming the recommended dose is much too low and you are very unlikely to overdose if you are not taking completely unreasonable amounts of it.
  - reducesuffering 4y ago
    Sardines are at the bottom of the food chain, their levels are pretty low; really low for fish.
    - Aromasin 4y ago
      If anything, you might be better with a food like Mussels/Clams/Oysters. They have the lowest levels of mercury [1], and if you're so ethically inclined, some of the lowest capacity for pain or sentience in the animal kingdom. [1] https://www.fda.gov/food/metals-and-your-food/mercury-levels-commercial-fish-and-shellfish-1990-2012 https://www.fda.gov/food/metals-and-your-food/mercury-levels...
  - saiya-jin 4y ago
    If I would have to choose only 1 fish to eat purely for health benefits, it would be sardines. They don't live long enough and are low enough in food chain to not accumulate much metals and other crap.
  - RajT88 4y ago
    As others have pointed out, Mercury in sardines is as low as it gets. Mercury is actually not that big a deal if you are an adult male, or a woman who is done having kids. The main issue with it is developmental issues in children. Unrelated: IMO, Sardines are the most delicious fish.
- have_faith 4y ago
  > but also easier to overdose on with suppliments I was under the impression that vitamin D is one of the harder supplements to overdose on and people don't take enough generally, is that not the case? (I don't take any).

pinewurst 4y ago

(2014)

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Copenjin 4y ago

I've always a lot of doubts on the quality of fish oil supplements being sold (not only for the amount of omega 3 but also for the content of less desirable chemicals derived from farmed fish), and also there has been a lot of research downplaying various omega3 supposed benefits over the years.

jonmc12 4y ago
See Labdoor.com and Consumerlab.com to verify supplement quality. There are some good meta studies on Omega-3s. Dr Bradley Stanfield[1] walks through Mayo Clinic meta analysis[2]. Rhonda Patrick[3] is the best resource for an interpretation of the data. TLDR; consume enough omega-3s (DHA/EPA) to get omega-3 index above 8.0. Discrepancies in research outcomes are attributed to study design, methodology of measuring intake, methodology of measuring blood. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58RkZy6FEco&ab_channel=DrBradStanfield https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58RkZy6FEco&ab_channel=DrBra... [2] https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(20)30985-X/fulltext https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(20)... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcvhERcZpWw&t=2108s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcvhERcZpWw&t=2108s
- swader999 4y ago
  Only kind that doesn't give me massive boils on my forehead is "Carlson, very finest fish oil" expensive...
  - bitexploder 4y ago
    You have a fish allergy I assume?
    - swader999 4y ago
      I don't think so.
adrian_b 4y ago
It is very good to be skeptical about the composition of the food you buy, and to check as much as possible which it is. However, when you buy some kind of fish oil for which the vendor provides precise values for its content in DHA, EPA and vitamin D, and you buy this in a country where such false claims are punished, you can be reasonably certain about the quality of the oil. I have not seen a vendor publishing the admissible content of mercury, but in most countries there are legal limits for it. I have seen a few studies where random samples taken from various fish oil commercial products were analyzed for mercury, and in most cases the content was significantly lower than encountered in most fish meat that is sold. Also one would eat much less fish oil per day, e.g. at most a spoon, than one would eat fish meat, when choosing a fish dish. I agree that unfortunately, due to the human stupidity in managing waste, now eating any fish-derived products implies some risks. However, in the case of fish oil obtained from some reputable source, I believe that the benefits outweigh the risks. The only good alternative to fish oil is the oil obtained from cultures of some unicellular living beings, but that is about 8 times more expensive than fish oil, so few people can afford it in the quantities that are needed for the recommended daily intake. Regarding the research downplaying the "omega3 supposed benefits", I have read many such studies and the conclusions were mostly opposite. While in many cases there could not be observed any effects from taking various vitamin supplements, there were nonetheless in most cases measurable good effects from the use of omega3 supplements. The reason for this is easy to understand. Any kind of vitamin, mineral or omega3 supplements can have effects only when the food eaten is deficient in those substances, otherwise there is no effect. Someone who eats large quantities of food obtained from animals will not need any kind of omega3 supplements. On the other hand someone who is either vegan or eats mostly vegetable food, will need omega3 supplements, like also vitamin D and vitamin B12 supplements. I am not vegan, but I eat mostly vegetable food, so I add some cod liver oil to the olive oil that I put in my food, to ensure an adequate daily intake of DHA, EPA and vitamin D.

zsolt224 4y ago

There are 3 types of omega3: 1. Trigliceride 2. Ethyl ester 3. Re-esterified trigliceride Almost all suplements sold are ethyl ester which means poor absorption and fast degradation (rancid). Always buy triglycerides. If you take ethyl ester, make sure it’s fresh and take it with fatty food

dustingetz 4y ago
what brand?
stinos 4y ago
Could you post sources? I feel this is especially wanted for free dietary advice on the internet. Not saying that you're wrong, I simply don't know, but just a quick search on 'bioavailability of n-3 fatty acids' show a lot of research which goes various ways and not necessarily confirming what you say here.
- andy_ppp 4y ago
  This probably covers it, not sure if the original papers are mentioned in here but I haven't heard of these guys misleading people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcvhERcZpWw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcvhERcZpWw
  - bacr 4y ago
    It does indeed cover it, starting at the 35 minute mark. It’ll require some more digging if you want the primary sources they reference.
alecco 4y ago
But those registered krill oils are way more expensive. Alleged absorption improvement is 2.5x (in only 1 study AFAIK). Just take more cheaper algae or fish oil. This all smells of krill oil manufacturer marketing. And who knows who funded that study.
- 4y ago

djmips 4y ago

What do you do if you are allergic to fish but don't want to take supplements?

triyambakam 4y ago
Algae oil. That's what I take as a vegan, and I also eat ground flax and chia in smoothies regularly
- stefantalpalaru 4y ago
- pure_simplicity 4y ago
  ALA (short chain omega 3) is very important to get. It is converted to DHA/EPA, but the conversion efficiency depends on the ratio between your omega 6 and omega 3 intake. The same enzyme that converts ALA to DHA converts omega 6 to the inflamatory arachidonic acid. Since omega 6 is so abundant in most oil rich foods, you have to be mindful of how much you ingest relative to ALA omega 3, which is harder to come by. Hence the algea oil is important too, because it contians pre-formed DHA/EPA Just to give some bacground info.
  - triyambakam 4y ago
    Thanks for the further detail! I don't eat any processed foods. My diet is dals and pulses, fresh fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds. Breakfast is e.g. masoor dal, lunch is apples, mangos and strawberries with ground flax, then lobhiya, and dinner greens or broccoli, fermented veggies, onion and chana.
ddorian43 4y ago
Eat more ruminant red meat.
- pure_simplicity 4y ago
  That would have to be grass fed for best results. it's the ALA (short chain omega 3) in the greens that get converted to DHA/EPA so grain fed won't have a lot of omega 3. You can observe this difference in the butter from grass fed versus grain fed: thd grass fed derived butter melts at lower temperatures because of the higher omega 3. However you can also take algea or algea derived omega 3 supplements, i think the species is called nannochloropsis gaditana, and it has vegan omega 3, so probably causes no issues with fish allergies.

nwienert 4y ago

I have a collagen issue and so googled for studies about omega 3 and collagen the other day. Was surprised to find a strong negative result for wound healing and collagen formation (in mice, but the effect size means something) https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-45508-1 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-45508-1 It’s interesting to note the anti-inflammatory effect seems directly responsible for slowing healing (where you want it), and that this may be broadly applicable. We don’t always want less inflammation, everywhere.

stephen_g 4y ago
For anybody without any specific issues like yours, surely this effect would be hardly observable? They administered 2 g/kg every day for four weeks, which is absolutely massive, whereas most people eating a lot of fish might be eating at most 0.05 g/kg of EPA/DHA, and that would probably only be a couple of days days a week… I take “high strength” fish oil supplements (for an autoimmune condition), and that only has 900 mg of triglycerides per capsule (1.5g of fish oil), which for me is 0.01 g/kg. I usually take two, except on days I eat salmon, when I only have one.

sendfoods 4y ago

Flaxseeds contain short-chain omega-3s, algae contain very long-chain omega 3s. Is anyone aware of another plant containing long-chain omega 3s in significant quantities?

adrian_b 4y ago
No plants contain long-chain omega-3 fatty acids. Besides flaxseeds, walnuts have also a large content of short-chain omega-3 fatty acids. Walnuts were my preferred source of omega-3 fatty acids when I was young. The problem is that the short-chain fatty acids must be elongated in the liver to become useful. For many people, the elongation capacity per day of the liver is not enough to provide a sufficient quantity of long-chain fatty acids. Because the fatty-acid elongation capacity of the liver decreases with age, for older people it is much more important to eat food with long-chain omega-3 fatty acids, e.g. fish oil or oily fish, than it is for young people, for whom flaxseeds or walnuts may be enough. That is why in the parent article the conclusion was that the long-chain omega-3 fatty acid supplements have been more effective for older people. There are unicellular micro-organisms which produce long-chain omega-3 fatty acids. They can be cultivated and the oil extracted from them is available commercially, but at prices 8 times higher than the price of fish oil (for the same quantity of DHA or EPA). Moreover, different cultures must be used for DHA and for EPA, so for a complete supplement 2 oils would have to be mixed. Because a single producer usually has only the technology for a single type of culture, in most cases one would have to buy both a DHA oil and an EPA oil and consume both supplements. In contrast, fish oil from oily fish has both DHA and EPA, while cod liver oil has DHA, EPA and also vitamin D.
derbOac 4y ago
Camelina sativa — the oil of which I've sometimes seen in groceries — is similar to flax in omega 3 content. Varieties with high DHA content have been genetically engineered, although I haven't seen that sold retail.

mark_l_watson 4y ago

I hope that I am doing this correctly: I eat about 1 1/2 tablespoons of chia seeds a day. I soak them for an hour and then put them in whatever I am eating. I prefer to not eat much fish oil. EDIT: after just reading the comments here, I just order some vegan algae oil for omega 3 to add to the soaked chia seeds. I try hard to avoid all foods with omega 6.

stevespang 4y ago
stevespang 4y ago
hsn915 4y ago
Omega 6 is also an essential oil. You should not reduce it to zero. It just happens to be everywhere you end up consuming a lot more than necessary.
- xutopia 4y ago
  I don't remember the study but ratios of Omega 6 to Omega 3 can matter if you are prone to inflammation. In our North American diet Omega 6 is nearly unavoidable in amounts that hurt some folks with inflammation.
johnsimer 4y ago
I don’t think you are doing this correctly Most of omega 3 benefits come from EPA and DHA. Not ALA. chia seeds have mainly ALA. Your body will only convert some of ALA into EPA, but not much. If you are trying to avoid fish oil, you could try krill oil
- bch 4y ago
  > If you are trying to avoid fish oil, you could try krill oil Curious - what about fish oil is to-be-avoided but lets krill be a suitable substitute?

daralthus 4y ago

Isn't the Omega-3 to Omega-6 ratio the more important over just consuming enough Omega-3?

oofbey 4y ago
I’ve read this but always had a hard time believing it. Why would the omega 6/3 ratio matter? Seems like a falsehood peddled by people trying to convince you to buy more expensive unsustainable hunted fish.
- throwamon 4y ago
  > Why would the omega 6/3 ratio matter? You might also ask yourself: Why would the HDL/LDL ratio matter? Why would mineral ratios matter? This pattern is not unique to Omega 3. Search for "micronutrient ratios", also timing the consumption of certain vitamins and minerals, fiber, etc. Nutrition isn't just about putting enough molecules into your body.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > I’ve read this but always had a hard time believing it. Why would the omega 6/3 ratio matter? Seems like a falsehood peddled by people trying to convince you to buy more expensive unsustainable hunted fish. What I read 20 years ago when Omega 3s were starting to be a thing, is that Omega 3s are processed into certain anti-inflammatory compounds, and Omega 6s into certain pro-inflammatory compounds. "Natural" diets had the two fats balanced, but modern Western diets have reduced Omega 3s and increased Omega 6s, leading to more inflammation. IIRC, one big mechanism for the change is feeding our food crappy food to increase production (e.g. switching from typically grass-fed to typically grain-fed beef).

tintedfireglass 4y ago

I'm vegetarian The only animal food I eat are milk products and honey. From where do I get my omegas from?

tomweingarten 4y ago
You can get them from the same place the fish get them from, algae! Like many micronutrients, fish don't actually produce them, they just accumulate them from non-animal sources. Unfortunately they also accumulate heavy metals, so they're not the cleanest source. Much better and more sustainable to go straight to the source. Just one example: https://www.nordic.com/products/algae-omega/?variant=39472182919352 https://www.nordic.com/products/algae-omega/?variant=3947218...
- tintedfireglass 4y ago
  Wow, interesting. Thanks :)
photochemsyn 4y ago
> "α-Linolenic acid (ALA), (from Greek linon, meaning flax), is an n−3, or omega-3, essential fatty acid. ALA is found in many seeds and oils, including flaxseed, walnuts, chia, hemp, and many common vegetable oils." (wiki1) > "Mammals are unable to synthesize the essential omega−3 fatty acid ALA and can only obtain it through diet. However, they can use ALA, when available, to form EPA and DHA, by creating additional double bonds along its carbon chain (desaturation) and extending it (elongation)." (wiki2) There's a claim that the latter biochemical process (ALA -> EPA, DHA) is negatively impacted as humans age. Is this really true? Who knows, this is the supplement industry we're talking about here. Known for peddling things like shark cartilage as a cure for cancer, etc. (I'm biased: I was a QA lab analyst for a supplement outfit for a while and ended up getting fired over refusing to doctor lead content tests so that bulk imported chinese herbs would pass tests. The company didn't want to hold up production of the hottest latest fad, at the time).
- tintedfireglass 4y ago

chasd00 4y ago

Who would have thought getting enough Omega3 would be such an involved discussion. This conversation reads like how to choose TheBest(tm) javascript framework.

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
I just get Costco (Kirkland) frozen salmon. Tastes good, cooks well, not outrageously expensive. I generally keep red meats to a minimum, as well as cheeses, and whatnot (to keep a handle on cholesterol). Otherwise, I don't really get too bent out of shape about trying to be healthy. I walk three miles a day, and don't do much between-meal snacking.
- caymanjim 4y ago
  Eating cholesterol doesn't raise your blood cholesterol level.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
    Yeah, I know that the effect is minor, but the same foods that have a lot of cholesterol, also tend to have a lot of fats and whatnot, so it's not a bad idea to moderate.
    - caymanjim 4y ago
      Eating fats doesn't raise your blood cholesterol level either. Diet is complicated, but all these myths about cholesterol/fat in leading to blood cholesterol have been debunked. People who avoid eating them tend to eat a lot more carbs and end up with higher cholesterol.
      - wbsss4412 4y ago
        I’ve heard of a connection between carb intake and triglycerides, but this is the first I’ve heard about there being a connection to cholesterol levels. Do you have any sources for this?

DantesKite 4y ago

I take fish oil pills. I try not to overcomplicate it lol.

magic5227 4y ago

Omega 3 linked to a fib https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-10-13/another-study-suggests-too-much-fish-oil-could-trigger-a-fib https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-10-13/...

UncleOxidant 4y ago
IIRC there have been more recent studies that have narrowed it down to the EPA component being implicated in afib.
sinenomine 4y ago
I don't think it should matter much, if there is solid data on omega-3 (DHA) blood levels being correlated with lowered all-cause mortality: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-22370-2 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-22370-2
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
rubicon33 4y ago
This is exactly why I don’t take supplements. I just eat. Randomly inflating certain micronutrients without actually monitoring their levels is probably way more dangerous than just eating “healthy”.
- mrandish 4y ago
  Sure, it could be. For those that want to really know what's going on it's better to actually get the data. Fortunately, it's not that hard to do. A couple times a year I track all my dietary intake for a week using an app. I'm not just interested in the macro-nutrients (protein, fat & carbs) but also all the micronutrients. There are apps that are more focused on micronutrients. I can track just a couple of typical one-week samples a year and get a decent ballpark approximation because my normal diet isn't super varied. Vacations and a few special occasions aside, I typically eat mostly the same types things in about the same amounts because I like those things and it's convenient. I decided to spot check micronutrients because for the last five years I've been on a very low carb diet that's working great for me health wise and I've also had significant improvements in cognitive sharpness and emotional stability vs eating a 'normal' diet that made me obese for decades. Because what I eat is fairly limited, I was concerned that over a long time period I might be missing out on some important nutrients. After getting a few data points, I was pleased to learn I was already covering everything my body needs. The only thing I was a little low on was DHA/EPA. While I can eat lots of fish on a VLC diet, I just don't particularly like fish, so I don't choose to eat much. For that reason I've added a high-quality supplement. Except for special cases like mine, I do agree it's entirely possible (and preferable) to cover all your body's nutritional needs with real foods. The challenge is that individual metabolisms can vary. General dietary advice is based on large-scale averages across many individuals. I'd also caution that the typical FDA "Food Pyramid" that is still widely promoted isn't ideal for every individual. My metabolism was certainly an outlier and the recommended 'balanced' diet wasn't working optimally over the long run for me.

mint2 4y ago

I did not realize left handed people were often excluded from trials

Sparkle-san 4y ago
They are sinister after all. Jokes aside, exclusions of certain groups, both demographic and people with medical conditions, in trials is a big issue that's still not fully being addressed. Medical trials often end up with candidates with better health than the average person and lean towards white males while psychology experiments are conducted on college students.

civilized 4y ago

Small study, p value just under 0.05. Has it held up?

sysadm1n 4y ago

Omega-3 gets me a little 'wired' sometimes. It's a powerful nootropic. My brain fires on all cylinders because it's now in an optimal state and primed for solving problems. This is generally good, but also sort of annoying since sometimes I just want to chill out and not do anything productive for a day. Otherwise: take it, but avoid taking it, if problem solving is not on the plate.

bobobob420 4y ago
To the people reading this..it does not have that effect at all. Please do not take omega-3 because you think its a nootropic
- whatshisface 4y ago
  Anything can be a nootropic if you have a deficiency.
- tsol 4y ago
  Eh everyone is different. Some people have weird reactions, I can believe it might make someone feel simulated for some reason. It's probably not a common reaction though

nikolay 4y ago

Just a friendly reminder - toxicity is all about the dose. Never forget what happened to Seth Roberts, who was overdosing on omega-3s! Also, there are tons of studies that most omega-3 sold are rancid and do more harm than good!

pengaru 4y ago

Canned wild sardines in water, drink the liquid before eating. The omega-3s are in the oily spots floating on top, do not drain/discard.

nikolay 4y ago
You mean "brisling sardines", i.e. "sprats", right? Because warm-water fish don't have much omega-3s! What's wrong if the sardines are in olive oil?
- pengaru 4y ago
  No, this is the cheaper decent-quality option available at practically any big box grocer in the states: https://www.amazon.com/Season-Sardines-Water-Added-4-375-Ounce/dp/B000HDOPGA https://www.amazon.com/Season-Sardines-Water-Added-4-375-Oun... The high Omega-3 content is advertised right on the box. Sardines are considered by many as a "super food". Sustainable, low on the food chain, great nutrient profile... Re: in olive oil, I don't know about you but I'm not interested in drinking olive oil. Packed in water is pleasant to drink, it's like drinking fish broth. Not to mention it's far less calories, oil is calorie dense. Nor do they generally use high-quality single source oils in canned fish, that oil is low-quality junk. Most people I know who eat fish packed in oil are actually more interested in eating bread with a side of fish+dipping oil. That's nowhere near resembling my preferred diet, YMMV.
  - nikolay 4y ago
    Olive oil (well, oleic acid) is a sirtuan booster, so, why not?! I personally prefer King Oscar. Sardines truly are a super food - quality protein, stable omega-3s, and tons of other nutrients! A great low-calory nutritionally-dense food for less than a Startbucks coffee!
    - pengaru 4y ago
      Be my guest. I have little interest in drinking even the highest quality oil - and absolutely zero interest in drinking whatever best volume deal of the month they're canning fish in.

JohnWhigham 4y ago

Anyone know any good supplements that are not soybean/corn oil? Pretty much everything at grocery stores is.

nikolay 4y ago
Isn't krill oil the safest choice?

nano9 4y ago

I am having a hard time understanding what is "essential" about essential fatty acids. That the body does not produce EPA or DHA is necessary but not sufficient for the claim that humans need to consume n-3 PUFA. The body doesn't endogenously produce amphetamine or cayenne pepper, are those essential too? When the human organism lacks n-3 PUFA, it generates n-9 20:3 LCPUFA (Mead) from 18:1 oleic acid (which makes up over 80% of the lipid content of olive oil). Is this Mead acid of no benefit compared to the n-3 series? Secondly, it seems strange that supplementing n-3 PUFA is so popular, considering the brain seems to mirror overall fatty acid composition of the diet. Throwing in a little n-3 isn't going to change much when you're getting a lot of n-6 AA, and AA in the brain is linked to Alzheimer's and cognitive impairment. Therefore, outside of changing your diet entirely (or trying your best to cut out omega-6), there isn't much of a call to action from these studies.

nikolay 4y ago
According to Ray Peat, PUFAs in any amount are toxic to humans. It's so obvious that after we started to consume PUFAs, the mitochondrial dysfunction, and all associated with it chronic diseases and obesity started as well! I've only heard Ray Peat talk about cardiolipin and how detrimental the desaturation of fatty acids is for our health!
eternalban 4y ago
You made me curious (and don't know anything about this subject) however the first result in ddg contradicts what you say: https://www.webmd.com/diet/foods-high-in-omega-6 https://www.webmd.com/diet/foods-high-in-omega-6
- nano9 4y ago
  Sorry, I'm not a biochemist, which is why my post consists of two questions. I do think a diet with plenty of n-3 is good, just not sure how much or what type. But I'm glad I made you curious. Please do more research and form your own conclusions. Also please note that when I wrote AA I meant arachidonic acid, which your link unfortunately does not address. This is also my gripe. Information on fatty acids is extremely basic and sometimes downright condescending, as if all n-3, n-6, n-9 PUFA are the same. They don't seem to be.

NonNefarious 4y ago