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Cloudflare is down 71% in that same period. Zoom is down 60%. Speculative pandemic tech darlings are no longer darlings and are being hammered across the board.
by ferdowsi 4y ago
Cloudflare is down 71% in that same period. Zoom is down 60%. Speculative pandemic tech darlings are no longer darlings and are being hammered across the board.
It's going to be a rough time for anyone who had high hopes for their equity compensation.
- imwillofficial 4y ago::cries in almost vested RSUs that I really need::
- 0xy 4y agoCloudflare might have been a frothy valuation, but it's still growing 54% YoY. I'm buying at these prices. ($NET bagholder)
- shitlord 4y agoSame here. I bought their stock on several occasions, and a few times near the peak. I regret the timing, but not the decision to invest in this company.
- mmaunder 4y agoP/E is back. Funny how irrational exuberance is seen as a normal market and a return to fundamentals is a financial crisis.
- arthurcolle 4y agoThis is a delightfully succinct way to put it, going to steal this one!
- neogodless 4y agoThe phrase "irrational exuberance" is sprinkled throughout John Bogle's book, Don't Count On It. (At least I think I'm remembering that correctly. But some Google brought up Alan Greenspan as using the phrase a lot.) If you don't recognize the name, he founded Vanguard and the first index fund.
- yostrovs 4y agoGreenspan gave it to the world:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrational_exuberance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrational_exuberance
- kolbe 4y agoYou may want to go see what $COIN's P/E is and get back to me.
- stjohnswarts 4y agoIf you look at P/E then the current "collapse" isn't nearly as worrisome and realize it's just the inevitable result of market self correction vs human emotion, market Always wins. I personally believe the massacre will be over in a couple or three weeks.
- STRiDEX 4y agoI sold enough to pay off double my initial investment, so i'm not too mad about cloudflare, but i agree and will be buying more.
- nr2x 4y agoMy personal rule is living expenses should be salary-bounded, as you can’t have security if you’re living off equity. But everybody assumes a risk level they’re comfortable with, this works for me.
- bradlys 4y agoProbably works in some parts of the country but it doesn’t work in SV unless you’re mega-wealthy already and paid off your house.
- closeparen 4y agoIt works if you live by yourself in a 1BR. To pay the mortgage on a family home you probably need to sell RSUs. It is also super risky to to buy a house you need RSUs to hold on to - exactly the kind of risk that is unreasonable if you have a family.
- bradlys 4y agoMost people in SV do this. So, it’s pretty normal actually.
- closeparen 4y agoThen there's going to be a lot of foreclosures soon.
- nr2x 4y agoYup, I think the housing market got totally overheated on the back of RSU values going through the roof. Now that even Apple and Google are well off peak, I’m super curious what happens next.
- nradov 4y agoThat's just totally disconnected from reality. The majority of Silicon Valley homeowners don't receive any equity compensation. You should walk around and talk to regular people sometime. (The numbers may be different if you look solely at recent buyers in a certain limited set of neighborhoods.)
- pcbro141 4y agoCould be a good time to switch companies and get a new grant on the other hand.
- adfjalkfja 4y agoGuess I'll buy some cloudflare along with hashicorp
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- danieldevries 4y agoadd Samsara to that list
- stjohnswarts 4y agolol yeah cloudflare and AWS ain't going anywhere anytime soon.
- freyr 4y agoDown 71% from the recent peak, still up 264% in the past 2.5 years.
- vrc 4y agoSmall consolation for all of those people with big equity packages on recent prices.
- Solvitieg 4y agoWhen Robinhood's stock tanked, employees were given a bump in equity. I suspect Coinbase will do the same if they haven't already.
- sammaher1 4y agoCoinbase also gives 1 year grants, so employees would be less affected then those from companies with 4 year grants.
- weatherlite 4y agoIt could dilute the stock and further hurt it though no?
- vrc 4y agoProbably not materially. I also assume they have a pre-allocated pool for their ESOP or equivalent.
- babyshake 4y agoGood time to change jobs and lock in a strike price?
- sulam 4y agoI did that in 2008 by going to Salesforce. It worked out really well. Highly recommend.
- claytonjy 4y agomaybe not yet, unless a super early company, since no one is worth the round they raised in the last 6mo, which is what determines the strike price you'll get today. You're either looking for a down round, or a company that hasn't gone up yet.
- nostrademons 4y agoOr a public company that took it in the chin over the last 4 months. With public companies you get the market price at the first board meeting after hiring, and you don't take quite as much risk of your stock being totally worthless as you would with a down round or unknown company.
- claytonjy 4y agois it still called a "strike price" when dealing with RSUs? I agree with you but I took parent to imply startups & options
- bob1029 4y agoMongodb is also taking quite a beating. Probably doesn't help that sqlite has been all over the front page lately (e.g. right now).
- redwood 4y agoSqlite is not a server side database
- XorNot 4y agoMongoDB are basically their Atlas product right now, and AWS has a number of offerings aimed right at it. I'm surprised Google hasn't been more aggressive in this space, but Google cloud strategy has never made terrific sense to me.
- masterteague3 4y agoGoogle's fairly recently acquired Snowflake is their answer to MongoDB in the cloud.
- redwood 4y agoHuh?
- gqewogpdqa 4y agoGoogle didn't acquire Snowflake - unless you know something the rest of the world doesn't ;-) But if they did, how would it be "an answer to MongoDB"? i.e. MongoDB Atlas. AFAIK, MongoDB is focused mostly on the operational database market, not the offline analytics market. Would love to understand that part - thanks!
- geitir 4y agoI hate mongodb with a passion so maybe that's bringing it down
- ayngg 4y agoLike half of NASDAQ has lost ~50%, a quarter have lost ~75% and 5% have lost ~90% of their value from their highs. Coinbase is not an outlier, basically everything growth and risk on is getting dragged out behind the shed right now.
- esoterica 4y agoCoinbase has a P/E of 5.8, which means the market thinks profits are going to shrink in the future. It's the opposite of a growth stock.
- sooheon 4y agoEx-growth. Which, as long as companies don't outgrow expectations in perpetuity, is the final destination of all growth stocks.
- roflyear 4y ago
- kumarvvr 4y agoIts surprising to see companies like CF being down. Like, they are the foundation on which apps and services are built. They are like the water supply, to the restaurant. Is it a correction to true value or an over-reaction to market sentiment?
- PolygonSheep 4y agoJust because a company provides genuinely useful and important products doesn't mean it's not overvalued. > They are like the water supply, to the restaurant. Even actual water companies get overvalued. Just look at American Water Works or Essential Utilities Inc stock.
- granshaw 4y agoWon’t expectations for startup equity be even worse then? Hard to see any IPOs or good exits in this environment
- weatherlite 4y agoOne has to be crazy to IPO now yes..I'd wait a couple of years.
- granshaw 4y agoHence rsus are still more attractive than late stage equity - I might have this choice coming up between companies to join
- scarface74 4y agoRSUs have always been more attractive statistically than equity in a private company.
- gorgoiler 4y agoCloudflare’s value, as a business, is in their crack team of amazing neteng talent. All these employees could just leave if they wanted to. If you are a public company and your worth is so heavily dependent on talent, how do you mitigate that risk? Is there a future for football player style contracts for engineers, where you are tied in to a team for N years, and with a requirement that another team has to pay big money for your contract if they want you to transfer?
- pushrax 4y ago> football player style contracts for engineers, where you are tied in to a team for N years, and with a requirement that another team has to pay big money for your contract if they want you to transfer? i.e. golden handcuff equity grants with vesting schedules? Top performers in highly demanded areas can have some or all of their remaining equity bought out. It definitely ties the value of the contract to the stock price. In a way the company is leveraging its stock - significant declines hurt talent retention, and significant gains help it.
- gorgoiler 4y agoThat’s different. You are talking about doing a deal with the player. I’m talking about Company X having to pay off Cloudflare-the-business if they want Team Cloudflare’s top network engineer to transfer to Team Company X, mid contract.
- rightbyte 4y agoSounds like servitude or serfs? Elite sport is one thing but for mere mortals I guess it would become extremely abusive.
- nradov 4y agoThat only really works in professional sports because each team is part of a league which enforces operating rules, including rules about player contracts and trades. No such "league" exists in the tech industry, and any attempt to form one would likely be a criminal violation of antitrust laws.
- princevegeta89 4y agoDon't see all that much value in them honestly. Way too expensive and centralized
- autokad 4y agoin fairness, coinbase was never ever a darling :(
- Melting_Harps 4y ago> tech darlings are no longer darlings and are being hammered across the board. Good, let it fall much more. Coinbase was never a darling for anything but the out of touch uninitiated (marks) in the 'crypto markets' because only MTGOX was ever this incompetent and amazingly useless at what they do. Be it from canceled purchases, reversed transactions, inappropriately flagged, suspended, or canceled accounts etc... There history is one of perpetual incompetence with little to save them other than being backed by the tech oligarchs and VC. Armstrong's appearance on the all in podcast just reminded me why their is so much distrust in this space as a result of people like him, all they wanted to do was virtue signal to one another about being a 'non-woke' worksplace. But they never addressed this very clear and glaring issue: the IPO was over-inflated and their relevance in this space is based on convenience of an ever smaller demographic. I wish they got to how and why they acquired 21, but that would require a level of transparency that I don't think he is capable of. I hope Jack eats Armstrong's fucking lunch and just fights a war of attrition from his cut of the Twitter Buy out by Elon. I don't think there is a place for Armstrong in this ecosystem since he sided with Ver and set us back for several years, but it's with absolute schadenfreude that I look at this YC backed unicorn go down in flames. Just like how Altman turned out to be a conman pushing Worldcoin, Armstrong is of same SV insider ilk. What that looks like maybe horrible since they hold so much BTC, despite supposedly being advocates of the BCASH fork during the Segwit/USAF wars.
- nunorbatista 4y agoI heard the podcast and honestly didn't see it like this. I saw Armstrong as a driven guy that puts business first. I don't think the "non-woke" communication was intentional, it was forced. The guy wanted the company to move forward and saw himself discussing other things that were not important for the future of the company. Where I felt it was a but empty was on the part where he talked about the mission. I felt like he's trying to find a reason for them to exist when in fact their success until today is from retail investors pumping Crypto. I don't think there's much good in the world coming from their actions. PS I don't have any Coinbase shares.
- Melting_Harps 4y ago
- deshpand 4y agoA little over a year ago, there was an incident with a lot of sites being down and Cloudflare/Lumen being involved (per Hacker News chatter, I only ready about the incident here). I bought a few shares of each, at around 39 and 11. While NET is down significantly from the peak, they have both worked out OK so far (LUMN has been paying $0.25 per quarter dividend). LUMN has been paying down debt and has good cashflow. They are contrasting and yet in a similar space.