4 ms·

New York is losing population at a breakneck pace. Our government is to blame. I am for single payer to some extent, but if done poorly medical staff (who are

New York is losing population at a breakneck pace. Our government is to blame. I am for single payer to some extent, but if done poorly medical staff (who are already leaving due to pandemic policies) will just pick up and leave. We recently expanded the privileges of nurse practitioners which is great, but two large nursing unions are less than 60 days away from striking.

joshstrange 4y ago
Citation needed. Every population graph I can find show a small decline over the last few years but it's still above 2000 and they've had population dips before (1970-1980) that then recovered. This comment reads like my in-laws who always talk about how "people can't get out of CA fast enough", um the population numbers say otherwise.
- pirate787 4y ago
  "A smaller Empire State: New York continues to lead nation in population decline" https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/politics/albany/2021/12/21/new-york-population-decline/8981869002/ https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/politics/alb... The population flight is primarily for US-born residents, which is what happened in CA as well.
  - q1w2 4y ago
    One of the main errors that people miss is that the people leaving California and New York are the people making money and paying tax revenues. Covid CRUSHED NYC tax revenues - and many people have still not returned.
  - jliptzin 4y ago
    From the article: "Most of New York's population decline has been upstate."
- timtom39 4y ago
  CA is losing population: https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Bay-Area-counties-helped-drive-California-s-17142106.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Bay-Area-countie... It isn't crazy fast but it is happening. We will see if the trend holds...
  - UnpossibleJim 4y ago
    How much of this do you think comes from the Bay Area and Los Angeles housing costs and the ability to remote work in the last couple of years (which seems to be coming to an end... possibly) and how much do you think is because of policy and city deterioration which has been publicized? I can't speak for CA but I see parallels in Seattle, though there's only movement to other cities within other WA cities (mainly the east side).
    - majormajor 4y ago
      The common refrain is very Yogi-Berra-like, "nobody lives there anymore, it's too crowded." Few people on the right want to connect things like rising homelessness -> rising rents and property values in the same period -> an influx of high paying jobs. There aren't concrete policy proposals given to fix those things given the circumstances of the last decade, just finger-pointing at whatever particularly policy someone doesn't like. The amount of gymnastics done to blame anything other than "importing a bunch of high-earners and/or wealthy people has unintended consequences" is high. E.g., pointing to pre-Covid out-migration overall numbers while ignoring net in-migration within the US for earners over 100K/yr. (I haven't seen if this has changed post-Covid, it wouldn't suprise me if it has, but one would want to keep an eye on it over the next two years as policies around WFH shift, of course.)
      - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
        Why would you even mention "the right" in any conversation involving the governance of San Francisco? What level of control does a party need before accepting responsibility for their governing instead of looking for an exiled boogeyman to blame?
- dwighttk 4y ago
  NY had been holding steady at about 6.5% of the US population since around 2010, but recently dipped just below 6% https://united-states.reaproject.org/analysis/comparative-trends-analysis/population/tools/360000/0/ https://united-states.reaproject.org/analysis/comparative-tr...
  - astura 4y ago
    Doesn't sound like a "breakneck pace."
tootie 4y ago
I don't see how expanding coverage will have any bearing on the quality of care givers. It's going to be the exact same doctors and nurses, just compensated from a different source.
OrvalWintermute 4y ago
> We recently expanded the privileges of nurse practitioners which is great, but two large nursing unions are less than 60 days away from striking. The problem is that NPs are not fundamentally trained in diagnosis and have huge gaps in their medical training compared to physicians. In the best case you go to an NP for a simple scrip. In the worst case you see a series of NPs and never get an accurate diagnosis, leading to a circular series of appointments. NP = 2 year program on top of a 4 year nursing degree. Physician = 1-3 years of fellowship (optional) + 3-7 years of residency + 4 year medical school on top of a 4 year bachelors degree

joshstrange 4y ago

Citation needed. Every population graph I can find show a small decline over the last few years but it's still above 2000 and they've had population dips before (1970-1980) that then recovered. This comment reads like my in-laws who always talk about how "people can't get out of CA fast enough", um the population numbers say otherwise.

pirate787 4y ago
"A smaller Empire State: New York continues to lead nation in population decline" https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/politics/albany/2021/12/21/new-york-population-decline/8981869002/ https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/politics/alb... The population flight is primarily for US-born residents, which is what happened in CA as well.
- q1w2 4y ago
  One of the main errors that people miss is that the people leaving California and New York are the people making money and paying tax revenues. Covid CRUSHED NYC tax revenues - and many people have still not returned.
- jliptzin 4y ago
  From the article: "Most of New York's population decline has been upstate."
timtom39 4y ago
CA is losing population: https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Bay-Area-counties-helped-drive-California-s-17142106.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Bay-Area-countie... It isn't crazy fast but it is happening. We will see if the trend holds...
- UnpossibleJim 4y ago
  How much of this do you think comes from the Bay Area and Los Angeles housing costs and the ability to remote work in the last couple of years (which seems to be coming to an end... possibly) and how much do you think is because of policy and city deterioration which has been publicized? I can't speak for CA but I see parallels in Seattle, though there's only movement to other cities within other WA cities (mainly the east side).
  - majormajor 4y ago
    The common refrain is very Yogi-Berra-like, "nobody lives there anymore, it's too crowded." Few people on the right want to connect things like rising homelessness -> rising rents and property values in the same period -> an influx of high paying jobs. There aren't concrete policy proposals given to fix those things given the circumstances of the last decade, just finger-pointing at whatever particularly policy someone doesn't like. The amount of gymnastics done to blame anything other than "importing a bunch of high-earners and/or wealthy people has unintended consequences" is high. E.g., pointing to pre-Covid out-migration overall numbers while ignoring net in-migration within the US for earners over 100K/yr. (I haven't seen if this has changed post-Covid, it wouldn't suprise me if it has, but one would want to keep an eye on it over the next two years as policies around WFH shift, of course.)
    - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
      Why would you even mention "the right" in any conversation involving the governance of San Francisco? What level of control does a party need before accepting responsibility for their governing instead of looking for an exiled boogeyman to blame?
dwighttk 4y ago
NY had been holding steady at about 6.5% of the US population since around 2010, but recently dipped just below 6% https://united-states.reaproject.org/analysis/comparative-trends-analysis/population/tools/360000/0/ https://united-states.reaproject.org/analysis/comparative-tr...
- astura 4y ago
  Doesn't sound like a "breakneck pace."

tootie 4y ago

I don't see how expanding coverage will have any bearing on the quality of care givers. It's going to be the exact same doctors and nurses, just compensated from a different source.

OrvalWintermute 4y ago

> We recently expanded the privileges of nurse practitioners which is great, but two large nursing unions are less than 60 days away from striking. The problem is that NPs are not fundamentally trained in diagnosis and have huge gaps in their medical training compared to physicians. In the best case you go to an NP for a simple scrip. In the worst case you see a series of NPs and never get an accurate diagnosis, leading to a circular series of appointments. NP = 2 year program on top of a 4 year nursing degree. Physician = 1-3 years of fellowship (optional) + 3-7 years of residency + 4 year medical school on top of a 4 year bachelors degree