4 ms·

Everyone should work in a kitchen (back of the house, not wait staff) for at least a couple months at some point in their life. The experience will make you 95

by ethbr0 5y ago

Everyone should work in a kitchen (back of the house, not wait staff) for at least a couple months at some point in their life. The experience will make you 95% less shitty to food service employees when something goes awry and give you a firmer, more true baseline for work difficulty : salary, to measure your subsequent jobs against.

matwood 5y ago
Until my first programming job I was a bus boy and eventually worked up to a fine dining waiter. IMO, it doesn't matter if you work front or back of house, it will give you a huge appreciation for how much work and stress it is to be in service. I also learned a lot about how to deal with people, not only customers, but also the chefs. Even 20 some odd years later, I have enormous patience when eating out and always tip well.
- candiddevmike 5y ago
  This just made me realize there are some interesting parallels with technology jobs actually. Front of house roles = PM, sales, executives, back of house roles = engineering. Sales compensation is quite similar too, where the front of house roles have more variable incentive and back of house are paid more up front with less variable comp. Maybe someone in the restaurant industry should write a book on tech org structures that models highly efficient restaurants.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    Back of the house tends to be paid poorly in food service. They essentially pay for the privilege of not interacting with customers and/or having personality traits that make putting them and customers in the same room a bad idea.
- Melting_Harps 5y ago
  > IMO, it doesn't matter if you work front or back of house... Not even remotely true, BOH gets to work in near slave labour conditions, while FOH gets to be in much more relaxed environment: the deal with the clientele, which sucks, but most are well compensated and when ever the topic of tip-sharing is brought up they are the first to start the divisiveness that is rife in Kitchen work. BOH gets screwed 99% of the time, there is very little to no parallel to FOH in anyway until you get to the GM level and that's only because they are often working late nights along with BOH staff, but the rest of FOH leave at reasonable hours and can hold down decent wages--there is no such thing in BOH. > Back of the house tends to be paid poorly in food service. They essentially pay for the privilege of not interacting with customers and/or having personality traits that make putting them and customers in the same room a bad idea. I've done both, and ran my Kitchens, I can guarantee you FOH have the same if not worst traits: substance abuse is one of the main reasons people go from BOH to bar-tending after all. It's one of the most desired transitions for alcoholics to make in their career: they're paid well to pour drinks and have several throughout their shift, but most cook personalities and aesthetics do not allow for it. What I've encountered more was a total lack of comradery in FOH, it's all about personal gain and backstabbing is the norm whereas in the BOH despite the prison culture aspect of it all the comradery is the cohesive glue that keeps the thing from descending into chaos during a busy night. It's all coordination and a constant reminder of how critical teamwork is in BOH, the same cannot be said as you get into higher end kitchens: I spent a couple of weeks in Michelin star kitchens, and all the back-stabbing, sabotaging etc... was not just lame it was pathetic--40 year old season vets of the Industry contaminating your mise en place was just sad. It's the nature of the beast, I suppose and to be honest after finally retiring for the 3rd and last time, I'm glad to say I will never miss the Culinary World as it has become a ghost of its former self. Which in many ways is good but no longer has the allure that it once did for me.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
You're making the assumption that without that experience, people are going to be dicks to food service employees. That is, assuming people are dicks by default, which I don't believe is the case. Maybe American culture instills that in people though, I dunno.
- ch4s3 5y ago
  I think they mean it will give you life experience that will make you more sympathetic rather than just empathetic. An inoculation against casual or accidental rudeness if you will.
- AlwaysRock 5y ago
  "I don't believe people are dicks by default except for Americans" lol
- ethbr0 5y ago
  > assumption that without that experience, people are going to be dicks to food service employees Yes. > assuming people are dicks by default Also yes. Not everyone. But on any given, sufficiently busy day, there would be at least one completely unreasonable person. Kudos to everyone else, but if everyone had the experience, I feel like it wouldn't happen.
- honkdaddy 5y ago
  Where does your prejudice against Americans come from?
  - formerkrogemp 5y ago
    Probably two words: American tourists. They're almost as notorious as British or Chinese tourists in the countries that I've visited. It seems to be a trend.
- gernb 5y ago
  It's hard not to get frustrated with a bad experience and it's hard not to take it out on the person who is the business's representative (the service person). I'm not making an excuse, you should be kind to everyone, but it's hard to get punched in the face and turn to the puncher and say "I'm sorry but did you mean to punch me in the face because I don't think I deserved to be punched. Are you having a bad day?" instead of "F you!" Sure, bad service is not a punch in the face but it is in the same category of receiving something you shouldn't have received and don't deserve. And, where do you draw the line on what's mean? I can be kind to the service person but then go leave a bad review on the restaurant. Isn't that also being unkind to people? (or maybe it's being kind to others, warning them against bad experiences). That said, I do see people in the USA (not sure about other countries) that act entitiled. Example, they spill something an instead of cleaning it up they think "not my job. Someone is paid to clean here so no need to clean the mess I made". Even if it's just bussing your own table in a fast food place where it's clearly expected you're supposed to clean up after yourself lots of people will just leave their trash at the table with a "not my problem" attitude.
cbm-vic-20 5y ago
I worked in a kitchen at a summer camp for a number of years when I was a teen. That was one of the hardest jobs I've ever had in my life: waking up at 5:30am to get breakfast prepared, cleaning up, moving on to preparing lunch, cleaning up, take an hour or two break, then prep for dinner, cleaning up, and we'd be done work around 8pm or so. We had fun. Labor laws now restrict this type of work for minors.
paxys 5y ago
If you made a list of all the "everyone should work in <xyz> at least once" that people proclaim as universal rules, we'd be doing nothing else but switching between all these jobs our entire lives.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  What's on the list? Off the top of my head, I'd think of food service, roofing in the summer, carpentry, and ditch digging.
  - drewcoo 5y ago
    Farm labor. Soup kitchen. There are different ones depending on the lesson someone thinks we should all learn.
    - Ekaros 5y ago
      Maybe some janitorial work, cleaning toilets, cleaning cess pits. Ofc, plumbing, electrical, carpentry, road work, list goes on and on. Maybe also teaching various subjects like, math, physics and chemistry, Just to get some basic understanding of world.
      - ethbr0 5y ago
        Well, I was limiting myself to jobs that through the work itself taught invaluable lessons. Less-so training for jobs type education. I was trying to figure out the best "dealing with filthy sludge" option. Probably plumber's assistant (and drop carpenter).
- blantonl 5y ago
  I'll tell you straight up, right now, that the parent poster is correct. I, like you, tend to roll my eyes at the "everyone should work in <xyz>" proclamations, but the parent is correct. Nothing goes right in a busy kitchen. Every assumption you might have about your upcoming shift is thrown out the window. A busy kitchen is absolutely a meritocracy. There's no racism, no views on drugs and alcohol. You are 2 secs away from lighting your hair on fire, or stepping in a boiling vat of water or grease and headed to the urgent care. You'll learn fast about being on the bottom, on the top, leadership, procrastination, laziness, scheduling, stock, product, financials, you name it.
supertofu 5y ago
People should be kind to others in frustrating situations by default. This is the basic social convention of politeness, which seems to have not been properly learned by the vast majority of people.
- JackFr 5y ago
  People should be kind to others.

by ethbr0 5y ago

matwood 5y ago

Until my first programming job I was a bus boy and eventually worked up to a fine dining waiter. IMO, it doesn't matter if you work front or back of house, it will give you a huge appreciation for how much work and stress it is to be in service. I also learned a lot about how to deal with people, not only customers, but also the chefs. Even 20 some odd years later, I have enormous patience when eating out and always tip well.

candiddevmike 5y ago
This just made me realize there are some interesting parallels with technology jobs actually. Front of house roles = PM, sales, executives, back of house roles = engineering. Sales compensation is quite similar too, where the front of house roles have more variable incentive and back of house are paid more up front with less variable comp. Maybe someone in the restaurant industry should write a book on tech org structures that models highly efficient restaurants.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  Back of the house tends to be paid poorly in food service. They essentially pay for the privilege of not interacting with customers and/or having personality traits that make putting them and customers in the same room a bad idea.
Melting_Harps 5y ago
> IMO, it doesn't matter if you work front or back of house... Not even remotely true, BOH gets to work in near slave labour conditions, while FOH gets to be in much more relaxed environment: the deal with the clientele, which sucks, but most are well compensated and when ever the topic of tip-sharing is brought up they are the first to start the divisiveness that is rife in Kitchen work. BOH gets screwed 99% of the time, there is very little to no parallel to FOH in anyway until you get to the GM level and that's only because they are often working late nights along with BOH staff, but the rest of FOH leave at reasonable hours and can hold down decent wages--there is no such thing in BOH. > Back of the house tends to be paid poorly in food service. They essentially pay for the privilege of not interacting with customers and/or having personality traits that make putting them and customers in the same room a bad idea. I've done both, and ran my Kitchens, I can guarantee you FOH have the same if not worst traits: substance abuse is one of the main reasons people go from BOH to bar-tending after all. It's one of the most desired transitions for alcoholics to make in their career: they're paid well to pour drinks and have several throughout their shift, but most cook personalities and aesthetics do not allow for it. What I've encountered more was a total lack of comradery in FOH, it's all about personal gain and backstabbing is the norm whereas in the BOH despite the prison culture aspect of it all the comradery is the cohesive glue that keeps the thing from descending into chaos during a busy night. It's all coordination and a constant reminder of how critical teamwork is in BOH, the same cannot be said as you get into higher end kitchens: I spent a couple of weeks in Michelin star kitchens, and all the back-stabbing, sabotaging etc... was not just lame it was pathetic--40 year old season vets of the Industry contaminating your mise en place was just sad. It's the nature of the beast, I suppose and to be honest after finally retiring for the 3rd and last time, I'm glad to say I will never miss the Culinary World as it has become a ghost of its former self. Which in many ways is good but no longer has the allure that it once did for me.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

You're making the assumption that without that experience, people are going to be dicks to food service employees. That is, assuming people are dicks by default, which I don't believe is the case. Maybe American culture instills that in people though, I dunno.

ch4s3 5y ago
I think they mean it will give you life experience that will make you more sympathetic rather than just empathetic. An inoculation against casual or accidental rudeness if you will.
AlwaysRock 5y ago
"I don't believe people are dicks by default except for Americans" lol
ethbr0 5y ago
> assumption that without that experience, people are going to be dicks to food service employees Yes. > assuming people are dicks by default Also yes. Not everyone. But on any given, sufficiently busy day, there would be at least one completely unreasonable person. Kudos to everyone else, but if everyone had the experience, I feel like it wouldn't happen.
honkdaddy 5y ago
Where does your prejudice against Americans come from?
- formerkrogemp 5y ago
  Probably two words: American tourists. They're almost as notorious as British or Chinese tourists in the countries that I've visited. It seems to be a trend.
gernb 5y ago
It's hard not to get frustrated with a bad experience and it's hard not to take it out on the person who is the business's representative (the service person). I'm not making an excuse, you should be kind to everyone, but it's hard to get punched in the face and turn to the puncher and say "I'm sorry but did you mean to punch me in the face because I don't think I deserved to be punched. Are you having a bad day?" instead of "F you!" Sure, bad service is not a punch in the face but it is in the same category of receiving something you shouldn't have received and don't deserve. And, where do you draw the line on what's mean? I can be kind to the service person but then go leave a bad review on the restaurant. Isn't that also being unkind to people? (or maybe it's being kind to others, warning them against bad experiences). That said, I do see people in the USA (not sure about other countries) that act entitiled. Example, they spill something an instead of cleaning it up they think "not my job. Someone is paid to clean here so no need to clean the mess I made". Even if it's just bussing your own table in a fast food place where it's clearly expected you're supposed to clean up after yourself lots of people will just leave their trash at the table with a "not my problem" attitude.

cbm-vic-20 5y ago

I worked in a kitchen at a summer camp for a number of years when I was a teen. That was one of the hardest jobs I've ever had in my life: waking up at 5:30am to get breakfast prepared, cleaning up, moving on to preparing lunch, cleaning up, take an hour or two break, then prep for dinner, cleaning up, and we'd be done work around 8pm or so. We had fun. Labor laws now restrict this type of work for minors.

paxys 5y ago

If you made a list of all the "everyone should work in <xyz> at least once" that people proclaim as universal rules, we'd be doing nothing else but switching between all these jobs our entire lives.

ethbr0 5y ago
What's on the list? Off the top of my head, I'd think of food service, roofing in the summer, carpentry, and ditch digging.
- drewcoo 5y ago
  Farm labor. Soup kitchen. There are different ones depending on the lesson someone thinks we should all learn.
  - Ekaros 5y ago
    Maybe some janitorial work, cleaning toilets, cleaning cess pits. Ofc, plumbing, electrical, carpentry, road work, list goes on and on. Maybe also teaching various subjects like, math, physics and chemistry, Just to get some basic understanding of world.
    - ethbr0 5y ago
      Well, I was limiting myself to jobs that through the work itself taught invaluable lessons. Less-so training for jobs type education. I was trying to figure out the best "dealing with filthy sludge" option. Probably plumber's assistant (and drop carpenter).
blantonl 5y ago
I'll tell you straight up, right now, that the parent poster is correct. I, like you, tend to roll my eyes at the "everyone should work in <xyz>" proclamations, but the parent is correct. Nothing goes right in a busy kitchen. Every assumption you might have about your upcoming shift is thrown out the window. A busy kitchen is absolutely a meritocracy. There's no racism, no views on drugs and alcohol. You are 2 secs away from lighting your hair on fire, or stepping in a boiling vat of water or grease and headed to the urgent care. You'll learn fast about being on the bottom, on the top, leadership, procrastination, laziness, scheduling, stock, product, financials, you name it.

supertofu 5y ago

People should be kind to others in frustrating situations by default. This is the basic social convention of politeness, which seems to have not been properly learned by the vast majority of people.

JackFr 5y ago
People should be kind to others.