5 ms·

I think a more effective strategy might be shaming individuals who make up the company. Just start buying internet ads with a persons name and how they wrote re

I think a more effective strategy might be shaming individuals who make up the company. Just start buying internet ads with a persons name and how they wrote reports to try and convince people something that caused cancer didn’t cause cancer.

tptacek 4y ago
How's that strategy working out for the antivax movement?
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  Pretty well, I'd assume. Antivax sentiments have never been as widespread and mainstream than they are right now.
- moistly 4y ago
  Canadians generally (to a supermajority level) dislike the unvaccinated, shun them, and would see them pay a healthcare surtax. Employers don’t want them around. https://nationalpost.com/news/tensions-high-between-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-in-canada-poll-suggests https://nationalpost.com/news/tensions-high-between-vaccinat... https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-poll-shows-majority-of-canadians-support-barring-unvaccinated-from/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-poll-shows-... https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/01/12/canada-poll-unvaccinated-fines/ https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/01/12/canada-poll-unvaccina... https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/majority-of-canadian-small-businesses-plan-to-make-vaccines-mandatory-poll-1.1641960 https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/majority-of-canadian-small-busin... The convoy was despised as well. https://www.cp24.com/news/almost-2-3rds-of-canadians-oppose-trucker-convoy-protest-poll-suggests-1.5772347 https://www.cp24.com/news/almost-2-3rds-of-canadians-oppose-...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- tresqotheq 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - hombre_fatal 4y ago
    You can certainly find those people in the crowd. I'd be wary of ever claiming that you couldn't find "literally anyone" who believes something. The problem is that "antivax" means just about anything these days, from people who think vaccines cause autism to people who don't agree with vaccine mandates for Covid. Funnily enough, Merriam-Webster infamously updated the definition recently to include people who oppose mandates: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-vaxxer https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-vaxxer Though I think mentioning this subject on HN risks it going off the rails.
    - tresqotheq 4y ago
      [flagged]
  - throw0101a 4y ago
    > "Antivax" is just a derogatory name to people who are demanding safer vaccines. Safer than what? How are current vaccines not safe? > I don't think literally anyone from the so-called anti-vax crowd are opposed to the general idea of vaccines. A 2016 article entitled "Exploring the Reasons Behind Parental Refusal of Vaccines": * https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4869767/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4869767/ Have we forgotten the 'vaccine autism' drama? From 2017, "Vaccination as a cause of autism—myths and controversies": * https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5789217/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5789217/
    - tresqotheq 4y ago
      >Safer than what? How are current vaccines not safe? Generally we consider medicines (and other things) to be "unsafe" until they are shown to be safe in studies. So a vaccine is "unsafe" if it contains stuff that has not been shown to be safe, in the way it is being used in the vaccine, in studies, or the studies that show something is safe are flawed in some ways. Like for example, vaccine uses it in one form, but the studies look at another variant and cites the results for safety of the vaccine.
mwt 4y ago
If this sort of thing was effective (and legal, I don't know) you'd think it would be seen regularly. I can't decide if it's better explained by the power of corporate(/political) PR or simply that people don't actually care
- vlovich123 4y ago
  I would imagine a huge piece of it is libel and slander laws protect you unless you’re in the public sphere.
  - nickpeterson 4y ago
    I would argue publishing a journal is a very public thing, note the root word of publishing.
    - anikan_vader 4y ago
      What about publishing an HN comment? At the root of it, they’re both means of publicly disseminating information.
      - saghm 4y ago
        I think "public figure" refers to how well known the person is. In this case, I'd guess that a way larger group of people read the journal than will read these comments.
brnt 4y ago
Don't think naming or shaming those that write the algorithms for social media companies/search is gonna work either. They are numerous, and operate in an ecosystem where incentives will always make it an uphill battle. Regular folks are paid to pollute water and soil too after all. Money, especially in salary-sized amounts, have disproportiinal power.

tptacek 4y ago

How's that strategy working out for the antivax movement?

heavyset_go 4y ago
Pretty well, I'd assume. Antivax sentiments have never been as widespread and mainstream than they are right now.
moistly 4y ago
Canadians generally (to a supermajority level) dislike the unvaccinated, shun them, and would see them pay a healthcare surtax. Employers don’t want them around. https://nationalpost.com/news/tensions-high-between-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-in-canada-poll-suggests https://nationalpost.com/news/tensions-high-between-vaccinat... https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-poll-shows-majority-of-canadians-support-barring-unvaccinated-from/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-poll-shows-... https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/01/12/canada-poll-unvaccinated-fines/ https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/01/12/canada-poll-unvaccina... https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/majority-of-canadian-small-businesses-plan-to-make-vaccines-mandatory-poll-1.1641960 https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/majority-of-canadian-small-busin... The convoy was despised as well. https://www.cp24.com/news/almost-2-3rds-of-canadians-oppose-trucker-convoy-protest-poll-suggests-1.5772347 https://www.cp24.com/news/almost-2-3rds-of-canadians-oppose-...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
tresqotheq 4y ago
[flagged]
- hombre_fatal 4y ago
  You can certainly find those people in the crowd. I'd be wary of ever claiming that you couldn't find "literally anyone" who believes something. The problem is that "antivax" means just about anything these days, from people who think vaccines cause autism to people who don't agree with vaccine mandates for Covid. Funnily enough, Merriam-Webster infamously updated the definition recently to include people who oppose mandates: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-vaxxer https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-vaxxer Though I think mentioning this subject on HN risks it going off the rails.
  - tresqotheq 4y ago
    [flagged]
- throw0101a 4y ago
  > "Antivax" is just a derogatory name to people who are demanding safer vaccines. Safer than what? How are current vaccines not safe? > I don't think literally anyone from the so-called anti-vax crowd are opposed to the general idea of vaccines. A 2016 article entitled "Exploring the Reasons Behind Parental Refusal of Vaccines": * https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4869767/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4869767/ Have we forgotten the 'vaccine autism' drama? From 2017, "Vaccination as a cause of autism—myths and controversies": * https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5789217/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5789217/
  - tresqotheq 4y ago
    >Safer than what? How are current vaccines not safe? Generally we consider medicines (and other things) to be "unsafe" until they are shown to be safe in studies. So a vaccine is "unsafe" if it contains stuff that has not been shown to be safe, in the way it is being used in the vaccine, in studies, or the studies that show something is safe are flawed in some ways. Like for example, vaccine uses it in one form, but the studies look at another variant and cites the results for safety of the vaccine.

mwt 4y ago

If this sort of thing was effective (and legal, I don't know) you'd think it would be seen regularly. I can't decide if it's better explained by the power of corporate(/political) PR or simply that people don't actually care

vlovich123 4y ago
I would imagine a huge piece of it is libel and slander laws protect you unless you’re in the public sphere.
- nickpeterson 4y ago
  I would argue publishing a journal is a very public thing, note the root word of publishing.
  - anikan_vader 4y ago
    What about publishing an HN comment? At the root of it, they’re both means of publicly disseminating information.
    - saghm 4y ago
      I think "public figure" refers to how well known the person is. In this case, I'd guess that a way larger group of people read the journal than will read these comments.

brnt 4y ago

Don't think naming or shaming those that write the algorithms for social media companies/search is gonna work either. They are numerous, and operate in an ecosystem where incentives will always make it an uphill battle. Regular folks are paid to pollute water and soil too after all. Money, especially in salary-sized amounts, have disproportiinal power.