8 ms·

Sunlight’s effects on body chemistry also have a damping effect on inflammation. It’s a funny thing. Sunlight has an impact on many chemical processes in and o

Sunlight’s effects on body chemistry also have a damping effect on inflammation. It’s a funny thing. Sunlight has an impact on many chemical processes in and on the body. One example: Our skin is coated with a bunch of chemicals. There’s a number of different acidic chemicals. These are known as the “acid mantle”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_mantle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_mantle One of these substances is urocanic acid. The body manufactures it as the trans-isoform. UV light – as in sunlight – causes it to change into cis-urocanic acid. (Ultraviolet-induced isomerization.) Cis-urocanic acid fits a certain serotonin receptor – type 5-HT2A. Cis-urocanic acid is a 5-HT2A agonist. That receptor is known to be profoundly immunomodulatory. It’s super interesting! There are some recent papers on it like “ Cis-urocanic acid, a sunlight-induced immunosuppressive factor, activates immune suppression via the 5-HT2A receptor” – https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17085585/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17085585/ “Molecular basis for cis-urocanic acid as a 5-HT2A receptor agonist” – https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960894X09011135?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960894X0... This is absolutely fascinating. I think people take me as a crackpot when I point to these papers. These are just simple and solid papers from molecular biology :)

gabereiser 4y ago
You, sir, just blew my mind. I have some reading material to go through. This is fascinating indeed!!
- AnthonBerg 4y ago
  I’m so glad to be able to share these papers with someone! I have no formal higher-level education in biology btw. Just high-school level or so? And I had no idea this was a thing – I just found one of these papers purely by accident. I don’t even remember what I was digging for on Google Scholar. I think it was something related to psoriasis. (It runs in the family.) I think I might have been trying to look for any hints on whether I was really seeing my psoriasis skin condition improve after starting to take ADHD medication. – And yes, I do believe that is the case, and that it’s related to serotonin. I feel a little like this might be construed as oversharing – it’s a story about science and I don’t know how to tell it in another way :) So I got a diagnosis of ADHD at age 39½. A carefully done and clinically sound diagnosis. Many things in my life now make a lot more sense than they did. Whatever ADHD actually is. I turn out to be somewhat of a poster child?, for “internal” ADHD. I respond very well to a small dose of lisdexamfetamine. (Vyvanse in the US. Elvanse over here.) When I started taking it, old friends would say things like”uh… What happened to you? You’re so… composed? serene?” “–Ah, yes. It is all the amphetamine I am taking.” And I give them one to try? because it’s so mild? And this friend is a lot like me so it can’t be that crazy? And they spend 24 hours with a clenched jaw and can’t sleep for a whole night. Biochemistry is wild. And after a few weeks I thought my skin condition was improving. It didn’t make any sense. Didn’t even occur to me that it could be the ADHD medication. But then I tried reading about the compound on wikipedia, what it does, what receptors it acts on. And then start looking for papers with kind of random keywords on Google Scholar? Because I didn’t know what I could be looking for or the words for it? And that’s how I found out about cis-urocanic acid. I think mostly because “cis-urocanic acid” seemed like an odd and funny name for a thing. And as I learned later, word-for-word, cis-urocanic acid does have a really odd and funny meaning. It means “this-side dog-pee acid”. “Uro-canic” because that’s where they found it for the first time. And “trans urocanic acid” means “the-other-side dog pee acid”. And I’m at the computer just going “wh… what? Huh? Lol?” And yes, as far as I understand it, the lisdexamfetamine does help my psoriasis, and because of some part of its influence on the serotonin balance in my body. Amphetamines are serotonin-releasing agents. I am fascinated by the papers on that part of it but it’s also clear that I can’t speak with any confidence. As I understand it, the ever-so-slight serotonin “venting” caused by amphetamine might do a few things that cause this effect: Slightly downregulates pro-inflammatory serotonin receptors, slightly activates anti-inflammatory serotonin receptors, and sliiiightly reduces the amount of serotonin in the average blood platelet’s payload. (“Wh… what? Huh??”) And yeah, on the way there I finally learned why my skin is clearer and less inflamed in the summertime. And why the UV phototherapy for psoriasis works. And the medically prescribed trips to the suntanning clinic in the Canary Islands for the patients with really bad psoriasis? Yep, that’s a thing, and it works, and I don’t think they ever really knew why, and urocanic acid is probably a big part of the reason it does, and even if those papers are out, I bet that the dermatologists don’t know about them because there’s just so much science out there. And we have no idea how easily accessible it is. My dermatologist probably doesn’t know about Google Scholar? And certainly not sci-hub. Or the amazing discussion between scientists one can find on Twitter. Funny thing right!!
  - gabereiser 4y ago
    I'm glad you're getting to the bottom of your health issues. Sounds like you're on the right track. I'm fascinated by it because of my history: I've had acne my whole life. Starting at 11, I'm 39 now. Still have it. I've tried every medication known to man. Nothing works. Dermatologists can't explain it, they just give me the same canned answer "You produce too much sebum". "Ok, how can we control that?". "We're trying". I take two showers a day to try to ward off the sebum oil from clogging my pores. I wash my face, hands, and all multiple times a day and wipe with clinical strength salicylic acid (6% instead of 3% you can get over the counter). Still, nothing works. Except one thing which could have adverse affects on me later. The Sun. When I get a tan, all my acne clears up for a brief while. Maybe that's the cis-urocanic acid doing it's thing. Maybe it's the sun burning that sebum and sealing the pore. I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure I'll get skin cancer if I continue this line of "treatment" but I'm out of options. It's ridiculous. It's on my face, my arms, my back, my ass, my legs, my chest and has been since middle-school. I'm ready to just graft the whole body. So thanks again as I have some other avenues to discuss with my doctors as well as some research to show them.
    - eashman 4y ago
      I assume you looked into Accutane treatment? It has worked wonders for multiple people I know.
      - gabereiser 4y ago
        I was on Claravis for 8 months with no improvement. Still looking for a remedy, even if just temporary. I will say that initially Accutane worked. For the first few months it cleared up the acne on my face but after a few more months it came back with a vengeance.
honkdaddy 4y ago
> That receptor is known to be profoundly immunomodulatory Any change for a layman's explanation on what that means? This seems super fascinating but admittedly above my understanding.
- lisper 4y ago
  immunomodulatory (immuno-modulatory) = modulates (i.e. controls) the immune system
SnowHill9902 4y ago
It’s actually quite reasonable and intuitive that an integral part of our environment i.e. the sun is beneficial or at least has modulatory effects on ourselves. It’s too much a reductionist approach to think sunlight -> bad because of it’s immediate associations with some types of skin cancers.
supertofu 4y ago
Anecdata: I grew up in LA. I was always relatively healthy. Moved to NYC. Developed autoimmune disease by my 6th year in NYC. I often wonder if I would have developed the disease if I had stayed in LA.
- pram 4y ago
  I think changing location does have a huge effect. Personally when I go to LA or SF (from Texas) I get sick 100% of the time, without fail.
  - Tijdreiziger 4y ago
    For some reason I was often sick when I lived in Stockholm (Sweden). A friend there mentioned having the same problem.
    - elevaet 4y ago
      Stockholm Syndrome?
- alliao 4y ago
  people in the past would grab a small jar full of dirt from home and drink it whenever countering some ailment, I actually think that'd still work due to the recent researches on gut bacterial and it's influences on immune system and all...
  - hattmall 4y ago
    Who, where, and when? Not doubting just curious about the practice.
  - watwut 4y ago
    I never heard or read about this and I used to read about past practices a lot. Who, when and where? I mean, which social class, which place and period and how prevalent it was?
  - 4y ago
BiteCode_dev 4y ago
And yet lots of dermatologists will tell you to avoid sunlight. The medical community is full of contradictions.
- herodoturtle 4y ago
  Everything in moderation. EDIT: Except lava.
  - BiteCode_dev 4y ago
    At first I read "except Java"
    - blep_ 4y ago
      Lowercase L looks like capital i in some fonts. Clearly it's Iava, the Latin word for Java. Quidquid Iava quondam scribum, omni currum, sed delenda est.
      - gjm11 4y ago
        sed delenda est? sed sed editor consuetus textorum est!
    - _Algernon_ 4y ago
      Still true
  - coding123 4y ago
    The floor might be lava.
- 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
  Until recently not going out much wasn’t a big factor. I’ve been feeling sicker than usual lately. Stupid amount of rain in NSW. Went out yesterday morning on a bright sunny day and suddenly I felt much better.
- phkahler 4y ago
nradov 4y ago
Sunlight exposure also stimulates nitric oxide production, which is important for circulatory system health.
- AnthonBerg 4y ago
  Ah!! This is interesting. Many thanks! Sometimes I order random supplements on a whim. I don’t remember why I ordered arginine. It turns out that it very clearly and obviously helps my fiancee’s type 1 diabetes blood sugar control – like, a lot! We have a blood glucose meter and you can kind of just see it on the graph. Takes a while but the blood sugar just kind of obeys control a bit better if she takes arginine. And it turns out there are a bunch of papers out on that too. I had no idea. ‘Effects of adding L-arginine orally to standard therapy in patients with COVID-19: A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, parallel-group trial. Results of the first interim analysis’ – https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=arginine%20diabetes&btnG=Search&as_sdt=800000000001&as_sdtp=on https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=arginine%20diabetes&btn... And it turns out that arginine supplementation seems to help in hospitalized COVID-19 patients. For reasons which make sense – including nitric oxide production and cardiovascular function. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34522871/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34522871/ Sunlight having an effect on nitric oxide production could be very important and useful for us to know! To help us manage her blood sugar and that whole biological picture. Thank you very much!
  - AnthonBerg 4y ago
    Oops!, please note: I pasted the title of the paper behind the second link… up there by the first link which is a Google Scholar search for “arginine diabetes”. And it’s too late to edit. Apologies!
desro 4y ago
Thank you for this fascinating comment! I can't wait to read through all of your links.

gabereiser 4y ago

You, sir, just blew my mind. I have some reading material to go through. This is fascinating indeed!!

AnthonBerg 4y ago
I’m so glad to be able to share these papers with someone! I have no formal higher-level education in biology btw. Just high-school level or so? And I had no idea this was a thing – I just found one of these papers purely by accident. I don’t even remember what I was digging for on Google Scholar. I think it was something related to psoriasis. (It runs in the family.) I think I might have been trying to look for any hints on whether I was really seeing my psoriasis skin condition improve after starting to take ADHD medication. – And yes, I do believe that is the case, and that it’s related to serotonin. I feel a little like this might be construed as oversharing – it’s a story about science and I don’t know how to tell it in another way :) So I got a diagnosis of ADHD at age 39½. A carefully done and clinically sound diagnosis. Many things in my life now make a lot more sense than they did. Whatever ADHD actually is. I turn out to be somewhat of a poster child?, for “internal” ADHD. I respond very well to a small dose of lisdexamfetamine. (Vyvanse in the US. Elvanse over here.) When I started taking it, old friends would say things like”uh… What happened to you? You’re so… composed? serene?” “–Ah, yes. It is all the amphetamine I am taking.” And I give them one to try? because it’s so mild? And this friend is a lot like me so it can’t be that crazy? And they spend 24 hours with a clenched jaw and can’t sleep for a whole night. Biochemistry is wild. And after a few weeks I thought my skin condition was improving. It didn’t make any sense. Didn’t even occur to me that it could be the ADHD medication. But then I tried reading about the compound on wikipedia, what it does, what receptors it acts on. And then start looking for papers with kind of random keywords on Google Scholar? Because I didn’t know what I could be looking for or the words for it? And that’s how I found out about cis-urocanic acid. I think mostly because “cis-urocanic acid” seemed like an odd and funny name for a thing. And as I learned later, word-for-word, cis-urocanic acid does have a really odd and funny meaning. It means “this-side dog-pee acid”. “Uro-canic” because that’s where they found it for the first time. And “trans urocanic acid” means “the-other-side dog pee acid”. And I’m at the computer just going “wh… what? Huh? Lol?” And yes, as far as I understand it, the lisdexamfetamine does help my psoriasis, and because of some part of its influence on the serotonin balance in my body. Amphetamines are serotonin-releasing agents. I am fascinated by the papers on that part of it but it’s also clear that I can’t speak with any confidence. As I understand it, the ever-so-slight serotonin “venting” caused by amphetamine might do a few things that cause this effect: Slightly downregulates pro-inflammatory serotonin receptors, slightly activates anti-inflammatory serotonin receptors, and sliiiightly reduces the amount of serotonin in the average blood platelet’s payload. (“Wh… what? Huh??”) And yeah, on the way there I finally learned why my skin is clearer and less inflamed in the summertime. And why the UV phototherapy for psoriasis works. And the medically prescribed trips to the suntanning clinic in the Canary Islands for the patients with really bad psoriasis? Yep, that’s a thing, and it works, and I don’t think they ever really knew why, and urocanic acid is probably a big part of the reason it does, and even if those papers are out, I bet that the dermatologists don’t know about them because there’s just so much science out there. And we have no idea how easily accessible it is. My dermatologist probably doesn’t know about Google Scholar? And certainly not sci-hub. Or the amazing discussion between scientists one can find on Twitter. Funny thing right!!
- gabereiser 4y ago
  I'm glad you're getting to the bottom of your health issues. Sounds like you're on the right track. I'm fascinated by it because of my history: I've had acne my whole life. Starting at 11, I'm 39 now. Still have it. I've tried every medication known to man. Nothing works. Dermatologists can't explain it, they just give me the same canned answer "You produce too much sebum". "Ok, how can we control that?". "We're trying". I take two showers a day to try to ward off the sebum oil from clogging my pores. I wash my face, hands, and all multiple times a day and wipe with clinical strength salicylic acid (6% instead of 3% you can get over the counter). Still, nothing works. Except one thing which could have adverse affects on me later. The Sun. When I get a tan, all my acne clears up for a brief while. Maybe that's the cis-urocanic acid doing it's thing. Maybe it's the sun burning that sebum and sealing the pore. I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure I'll get skin cancer if I continue this line of "treatment" but I'm out of options. It's ridiculous. It's on my face, my arms, my back, my ass, my legs, my chest and has been since middle-school. I'm ready to just graft the whole body. So thanks again as I have some other avenues to discuss with my doctors as well as some research to show them.
  - eashman 4y ago
    I assume you looked into Accutane treatment? It has worked wonders for multiple people I know.
    - gabereiser 4y ago
      I was on Claravis for 8 months with no improvement. Still looking for a remedy, even if just temporary. I will say that initially Accutane worked. For the first few months it cleared up the acne on my face but after a few more months it came back with a vengeance.

honkdaddy 4y ago

> That receptor is known to be profoundly immunomodulatory Any change for a layman's explanation on what that means? This seems super fascinating but admittedly above my understanding.

lisper 4y ago
immunomodulatory (immuno-modulatory) = modulates (i.e. controls) the immune system

SnowHill9902 4y ago

It’s actually quite reasonable and intuitive that an integral part of our environment i.e. the sun is beneficial or at least has modulatory effects on ourselves. It’s too much a reductionist approach to think sunlight -> bad because of it’s immediate associations with some types of skin cancers.

supertofu 4y ago

Anecdata: I grew up in LA. I was always relatively healthy. Moved to NYC. Developed autoimmune disease by my 6th year in NYC. I often wonder if I would have developed the disease if I had stayed in LA.

pram 4y ago
I think changing location does have a huge effect. Personally when I go to LA or SF (from Texas) I get sick 100% of the time, without fail.
- Tijdreiziger 4y ago
  For some reason I was often sick when I lived in Stockholm (Sweden). A friend there mentioned having the same problem.
  - elevaet 4y ago
    Stockholm Syndrome?
alliao 4y ago
people in the past would grab a small jar full of dirt from home and drink it whenever countering some ailment, I actually think that'd still work due to the recent researches on gut bacterial and it's influences on immune system and all...
- hattmall 4y ago
  Who, where, and when? Not doubting just curious about the practice.
- watwut 4y ago
  I never heard or read about this and I used to read about past practices a lot. Who, when and where? I mean, which social class, which place and period and how prevalent it was?
- 4y ago

BiteCode_dev 4y ago

And yet lots of dermatologists will tell you to avoid sunlight. The medical community is full of contradictions.

herodoturtle 4y ago
Everything in moderation. EDIT: Except lava.
- BiteCode_dev 4y ago
  At first I read "except Java"
  - blep_ 4y ago
    Lowercase L looks like capital i in some fonts. Clearly it's Iava, the Latin word for Java. Quidquid Iava quondam scribum, omni currum, sed delenda est.
    - gjm11 4y ago
      sed delenda est? sed sed editor consuetus textorum est!
  - _Algernon_ 4y ago
    Still true
- coding123 4y ago
  The floor might be lava.
2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
Until recently not going out much wasn’t a big factor. I’ve been feeling sicker than usual lately. Stupid amount of rain in NSW. Went out yesterday morning on a bright sunny day and suddenly I felt much better.
phkahler 4y ago

nradov 4y ago

Sunlight exposure also stimulates nitric oxide production, which is important for circulatory system health.

AnthonBerg 4y ago
Ah!! This is interesting. Many thanks! Sometimes I order random supplements on a whim. I don’t remember why I ordered arginine. It turns out that it very clearly and obviously helps my fiancee’s type 1 diabetes blood sugar control – like, a lot! We have a blood glucose meter and you can kind of just see it on the graph. Takes a while but the blood sugar just kind of obeys control a bit better if she takes arginine. And it turns out there are a bunch of papers out on that too. I had no idea. ‘Effects of adding L-arginine orally to standard therapy in patients with COVID-19: A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, parallel-group trial. Results of the first interim analysis’ – https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=arginine%20diabetes&btnG=Search&as_sdt=800000000001&as_sdtp=on https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=arginine%20diabetes&btn... And it turns out that arginine supplementation seems to help in hospitalized COVID-19 patients. For reasons which make sense – including nitric oxide production and cardiovascular function. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34522871/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34522871/ Sunlight having an effect on nitric oxide production could be very important and useful for us to know! To help us manage her blood sugar and that whole biological picture. Thank you very much!
- AnthonBerg 4y ago
  Oops!, please note: I pasted the title of the paper behind the second link… up there by the first link which is a Google Scholar search for “arginine diabetes”. And it’s too late to edit. Apologies!

desro 4y ago

Thank you for this fascinating comment! I can't wait to read through all of your links.