10 ms·

Daily morning and afternoon exposure to bright light might actually be more important to reducing depression than direct vitamin D supplementation. Low vitamin

Daily morning and afternoon exposure to bright light might actually be more important to reducing depression than direct vitamin D supplementation. Low vitamin D might just be an indicator that you are not getting enough sunlight. Sunlight also affects melatonin and serotonin levels, and synchronizes your Circadian rhythm. Not sure why that article doesn't talk about Seasonal affective disorder (SAD), and how bright light therapy is considered an effective treatment for it.

juve1996 4y ago
Anecdotally agree with this. I have vitamin D deficiency, was given 50,000 IU a week vitamin D to get it up. Never worked. Went to the beach one week and got blood tested again and my vitamin D levels climbed significantly. Now I make it a point to get outside and sunlight
- csdreamer7 4y ago
  > was given 50,000 IU a week vitamin D to get it up. It should have gone up significantly. I wonder if your body has a problem with Vit D absorption. I was put on the same dose of vit d for a treatment and I felt it within 20 minutes.
  - chrisco255 4y ago
    Is vitamin D fat soluble? If so, pretty sure it needs to be consumed with fat. That's partly why it's common in milk.
    - Jtsummers 4y ago
      It is fat soluble, but it doesn't need to be consumed with fat. It's believed that that will help improve uptake, though. (I don't, I take it in the mornings long before my first meal and that seems to be effective for me based on my test results.)
      - chrisco255 4y ago
        https://www.jandonline.org/article/S2212-2672%2814%2901468-3/fulltext https://www.jandonline.org/article/S2212-2672%2814%2901468-3... "The mean peak (12-hour) plasma vitamin D-3 level after the dose was 32% (95% CI 11% to 52%) greater in subjects consuming fat-containing compared with fat-free meals (P=0.003)."
    - nanidin 4y ago
      It's common in milk because it helps with calcium absorption.
      - Godel_unicode 4y ago
        This is correct: https://www.bones.nih.gov/health-info/bone/bone-health/nutrition/calcium-and-vitamin-d-important-every-age#:~:text=The%20body%20needs%20vitamin%20D,calcium%20absorption%20from%20the%20diet https://www.bones.nih.gov/health-info/bone/bone-health/nutri....
  - danamit 4y ago
    Takes months to rise your vitamin D levels.
    - librarianscott 4y ago
      This. It is amazing how long blood pressure pills, cholesterol pills, and vitamins take to make a budge in your blood tests.
- trompetenaccoun 4y ago
  A lot of modern "problems" can be solved this way. The term koyaanisqatsi comes to mind, life out of balance.
- treeman79 4y ago
  Had super low Vit D. Was stuck in bed for a year. A few months of Vit D and a few other diet and supplements changes and I was out kayaking every weekend. My experience anyway
  - interactivecode 4y ago
    What dose and diet changes did you do?
    - treeman79 4y ago
      3,000u daily. Switched to AIP diet. Six months earlier had started. Started magnesium, b12, fish oil, Vit E. Now I take a 5000u/k2 combo. Now on LDN in addition That seems to be the final major piece to fully normal life.
      - dredmorbius 4y ago
        AIP diet: autoimmune protocol diet. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/aip-diet-autoimmune-protocol-diet https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/aip-diet-autoimmune-pro...
  - donthellbanme 4y ago
    The heaviest man in Mexico was bedridden for years. He was depressed, but besides being humongous, and trapped in a bed; one of his biggest complains was muscle aches. A doctor gave him vitamin D supplements and he said the pain went away. It made a bit of sence to me, but the amount of food this guy consumed daily was staggering. I just wouldn't think a person would be deficient in D with the amount of animal products this man consumed. I just assumed even though he never saw the light of day for 15 years. My point is it just suprised me. Antidotially, I have been depressed (dysthymia--low level) for a good 30 years, and found sunlight didn't help me. I don't eat a lot, but i'm not a vegetarian either. I actually feel better during the winter. I do have allergies though. According to my doctor, all he ever said about depression is "All my patients are different. Oh, my fee will be $----. Your depression is situational.". I know he is partially right. (He doesn't overcharge me compared to the horror stories I have heard here. I just believe most psychotropic drugs should not require more one office visit, especially if you are on a low dose, and not abusing them.)
- geoduck14 4y ago
  >Went to the beach one week and got blood tested again and my vitamin D levels climbed significantly. Well, I think I just justified my beach vacation. Thanks!
- hammock 4y ago
  The point was that sunlight does more than raise vitamin D, not that it's better than supplementation at raising vitamin D.
- nradov 4y ago
  In rare cases, hypovitaminosis D can be a symptom of heavy metal toxicity. If someone is getting adequate vitamin D intake but levels are still low then it can be worth testing for metals levels. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.1994.10718447 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.1994.10...
jollybean 4y ago
Came here to say this: VD may be it, or even indirectly a measure of 'not getting outside' enough. Even the sunlight may not be it, literally a walk in the woods might be providing the effect. Or rather 'spending too much time in our own minds' etc..
- digisign 4y ago
  Bright, direct light seems to be a major component, which is not what most people think of being in the "woods." See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31306477 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31306477
anoplus 4y ago
I am thinking the same, and in a midst of self experiment where I ensure I get a decent dose of just seeing the world in bright daylight. Week into it and my sleep feels pretty solid. Easy to avoid daylight when working indoors all day.
annamargot 4y ago
Latitude matters though. The farther north you are the more time in the sun you’d need. In some far north places, the sun you do get is not strong enough to get any Vit D. http://web.archive.org/web/20210302053343/https://jaoa.org/article.aspx?articleid=2635300 http://web.archive.org/web/20210302053343/https://jaoa.org/a... https://www.grassrootshealth.net/document/sunshine-calendar/ https://www.grassrootshealth.net/document/sunshine-calendar/
- thinkingemote 4y ago
  Indeed, the UK which is further north than the majority of Canada's population has effective vitamin D from the Sun only from March to September. Spring Equinox to autumn equinox basically. The sun is too low even though it might be much warmer than lower latitudes!
  - noneeeed 4y ago
    Yurp. I live in the south of England and even here I take vit D for pretty much that time period or I end up with little to no energy. I always make sure to go outside as much as I can, but when the sun is coming up at 8am and has gone down by 6pm it's pretty hard to get enough daylight and also work.
    - afr0ck 4y ago
      Worse in Edinburgh. Sunset is at 4pm for god's sake.
      - MrDresden 4y ago
        Greetings from Reykjavík Iceland
- nl 4y ago
  In the Southern Hemisphere (yes, people do live south of the equator) this advice is complicated by the ozone hole causing the risk of skin cancer to be much higher than in the northern hemisphere.
AnthonBerg 4y ago
Sunlight’s effects on body chemistry also have a damping effect on inflammation. It’s a funny thing. Sunlight has an impact on many chemical processes in and on the body. One example: Our skin is coated with a bunch of chemicals. There’s a number of different acidic chemicals. These are known as the “acid mantle”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_mantle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_mantle One of these substances is urocanic acid. The body manufactures it as the trans-isoform. UV light – as in sunlight – causes it to change into cis-urocanic acid. (Ultraviolet-induced isomerization.) Cis-urocanic acid fits a certain serotonin receptor – type 5-HT2A. Cis-urocanic acid is a 5-HT2A agonist. That receptor is known to be profoundly immunomodulatory. It’s super interesting! There are some recent papers on it like “ Cis-urocanic acid, a sunlight-induced immunosuppressive factor, activates immune suppression via the 5-HT2A receptor” – https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17085585/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17085585/ “Molecular basis for cis-urocanic acid as a 5-HT2A receptor agonist” – https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960894X09011135?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960894X0... This is absolutely fascinating. I think people take me as a crackpot when I point to these papers. These are just simple and solid papers from molecular biology :)
- gabereiser 4y ago
  You, sir, just blew my mind. I have some reading material to go through. This is fascinating indeed!!
  - AnthonBerg 4y ago
    I’m so glad to be able to share these papers with someone! I have no formal higher-level education in biology btw. Just high-school level or so? And I had no idea this was a thing – I just found one of these papers purely by accident. I don’t even remember what I was digging for on Google Scholar. I think it was something related to psoriasis. (It runs in the family.) I think I might have been trying to look for any hints on whether I was really seeing my psoriasis skin condition improve after starting to take ADHD medication. – And yes, I do believe that is the case, and that it’s related to serotonin. I feel a little like this might be construed as oversharing – it’s a story about science and I don’t know how to tell it in another way :) So I got a diagnosis of ADHD at age 39½. A carefully done and clinically sound diagnosis. Many things in my life now make a lot more sense than they did. Whatever ADHD actually is. I turn out to be somewhat of a poster child?, for “internal” ADHD. I respond very well to a small dose of lisdexamfetamine. (Vyvanse in the US. Elvanse over here.) When I started taking it, old friends would say things like”uh… What happened to you? You’re so… composed? serene?” “–Ah, yes. It is all the amphetamine I am taking.” And I give them one to try? because it’s so mild? And this friend is a lot like me so it can’t be that crazy? And they spend 24 hours with a clenched jaw and can’t sleep for a whole night. Biochemistry is wild. And after a few weeks I thought my skin condition was improving. It didn’t make any sense. Didn’t even occur to me that it could be the ADHD medication. But then I tried reading about the compound on wikipedia, what it does, what receptors it acts on. And then start looking for papers with kind of random keywords on Google Scholar? Because I didn’t know what I could be looking for or the words for it? And that’s how I found out about cis-urocanic acid. I think mostly because “cis-urocanic acid” seemed like an odd and funny name for a thing. And as I learned later, word-for-word, cis-urocanic acid does have a really odd and funny meaning. It means “this-side dog-pee acid”. “Uro-canic” because that’s where they found it for the first time. And “trans urocanic acid” means “the-other-side dog pee acid”. And I’m at the computer just going “wh… what? Huh? Lol?” And yes, as far as I understand it, the lisdexamfetamine does help my psoriasis, and because of some part of its influence on the serotonin balance in my body. Amphetamines are serotonin-releasing agents. I am fascinated by the papers on that part of it but it’s also clear that I can’t speak with any confidence. As I understand it, the ever-so-slight serotonin “venting” caused by amphetamine might do a few things that cause this effect: Slightly downregulates pro-inflammatory serotonin receptors, slightly activates anti-inflammatory serotonin receptors, and sliiiightly reduces the amount of serotonin in the average blood platelet’s payload. (“Wh… what? Huh??”) And yeah, on the way there I finally learned why my skin is clearer and less inflamed in the summertime. And why the UV phototherapy for psoriasis works. And the medically prescribed trips to the suntanning clinic in the Canary Islands for the patients with really bad psoriasis? Yep, that’s a thing, and it works, and I don’t think they ever really knew why, and urocanic acid is probably a big part of the reason it does, and even if those papers are out, I bet that the dermatologists don’t know about them because there’s just so much science out there. And we have no idea how easily accessible it is. My dermatologist probably doesn’t know about Google Scholar? And certainly not sci-hub. Or the amazing discussion between scientists one can find on Twitter. Funny thing right!!
kingcharles 4y ago
I just went over 8 years without seeing the sun (jail). I wonder what the long term effects are?
- elevaet 4y ago
  Probably not good, and just one of the reasons why incarceration should be an absolute last resort. Welcome out!
  - mcv 4y ago
    And when incarceration does happen, it should be in a humane prison where inmates get to go outside and do some normal activity. In too many parts of the world, prisons seem to be designed to be utter hellholes meant to destroy people.
- hattmall 4y ago
  Gahdam, they never put you on the yard?
  - kingcharles 4y ago
    First 5 years was in a facility with no windows or access to the outside. Last 3 had windows that were too dirty to see out of but some feeling of sunlight came in. That facility had outside, but was allowed out probably 5 hours in total. I burned instantly after all that time without sunlight!
adfjalkfja 4y ago
Had a consult with a sleep doctor, he stressed the importance of getting out for morning light for at least 30 minutes with no sunglasses.
- onesafari 4y ago
  Why no sunglasses?
  - purplerabbit 4y ago
    Morning light hitting your eyes has a significant psychological impact. Sunglasses cut way down on that. It’s discussed in one of Huberman’s sleep related podcast episodes if you’re interested
danamit 4y ago
Would wearing glasses, specially blue light blocking glasses make sun's effect on your circadian rhythm less pronounced?
- afr0ck 4y ago
  That's interesting. I have Myopia and I permanantly put glasses with Bkue light blocking. I always had trouble with my circadian rythm and very often I find it extremely hard to have a fixed sleeping schedule, let alone sleeping early. I wonder if that has smthng to do with it. I also live in a northern country where the sun is a very rare event, especially during the winter.
lesgobrandon 4y ago
dheera 4y ago
If I owned a health insurance company I'd be subsiding rents for people to move to apartments with better sunlight. It would very directly save money. I'd also cut premiums and copays for people who exercise regularly and track it. Maybe even give free national park passes and gym memberships to patients. All this stuff costs pennies compared to the cost of the various treatments that people are needing these days.
MrYellowP 4y ago
> Daily morning and afternoon exposure to bright light might actually be more important to reducing depression than direct vitamin D supplementation. I don't understand how this is even a question. It's like people have no idea what's doing them good. Sure, I understand that scientific evidence is helpful, but this isn't particularly rocket science? The difference between being in the sun and taking vitaminD is perceivable. Taking vitaminD doesn't make one feel better even to a fraction of how one feels after hours in the sun.
ceasesurthinko 4y ago
Good example of correlation and not causation. I think you are definitely onto something here. I used to take 10k IU vitamin D a day and still felt meh, but getting a bright ass white light (2300 lumens) in my room has uplifted my mood, increased wakefulness, and boosted my general productivity alot. I used to have a warm Phillips Hue and I couldn't do any work in my room without wanting to nap.
Projectiboga 4y ago
Sunlight direct on the retina either without any obstructions or only through eyelids loads an enzyme necessary for serotonin production. The required amount of sunlight on the retina to reduce depression is 3 or more 20-30 minute sessions. It is actually harder than it might seem to get that much every week.

juve1996 4y ago

Anecdotally agree with this. I have vitamin D deficiency, was given 50,000 IU a week vitamin D to get it up. Never worked. Went to the beach one week and got blood tested again and my vitamin D levels climbed significantly. Now I make it a point to get outside and sunlight

csdreamer7 4y ago
> was given 50,000 IU a week vitamin D to get it up. It should have gone up significantly. I wonder if your body has a problem with Vit D absorption. I was put on the same dose of vit d for a treatment and I felt it within 20 minutes.
- chrisco255 4y ago
  Is vitamin D fat soluble? If so, pretty sure it needs to be consumed with fat. That's partly why it's common in milk.
  - Jtsummers 4y ago
    It is fat soluble, but it doesn't need to be consumed with fat. It's believed that that will help improve uptake, though. (I don't, I take it in the mornings long before my first meal and that seems to be effective for me based on my test results.)
    - chrisco255 4y ago
      https://www.jandonline.org/article/S2212-2672%2814%2901468-3/fulltext https://www.jandonline.org/article/S2212-2672%2814%2901468-3... "The mean peak (12-hour) plasma vitamin D-3 level after the dose was 32% (95% CI 11% to 52%) greater in subjects consuming fat-containing compared with fat-free meals (P=0.003)."
  - nanidin 4y ago
    It's common in milk because it helps with calcium absorption.
    - Godel_unicode 4y ago
      This is correct: https://www.bones.nih.gov/health-info/bone/bone-health/nutrition/calcium-and-vitamin-d-important-every-age#:~:text=The%20body%20needs%20vitamin%20D,calcium%20absorption%20from%20the%20diet https://www.bones.nih.gov/health-info/bone/bone-health/nutri....
- danamit 4y ago
  Takes months to rise your vitamin D levels.
  - librarianscott 4y ago
    This. It is amazing how long blood pressure pills, cholesterol pills, and vitamins take to make a budge in your blood tests.
trompetenaccoun 4y ago
A lot of modern "problems" can be solved this way. The term koyaanisqatsi comes to mind, life out of balance.
treeman79 4y ago
Had super low Vit D. Was stuck in bed for a year. A few months of Vit D and a few other diet and supplements changes and I was out kayaking every weekend. My experience anyway
- interactivecode 4y ago
  What dose and diet changes did you do?
  - treeman79 4y ago
    3,000u daily. Switched to AIP diet. Six months earlier had started. Started magnesium, b12, fish oil, Vit E. Now I take a 5000u/k2 combo. Now on LDN in addition That seems to be the final major piece to fully normal life.
    - dredmorbius 4y ago
      AIP diet: autoimmune protocol diet. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/aip-diet-autoimmune-protocol-diet https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/aip-diet-autoimmune-pro...
- donthellbanme 4y ago
  The heaviest man in Mexico was bedridden for years. He was depressed, but besides being humongous, and trapped in a bed; one of his biggest complains was muscle aches. A doctor gave him vitamin D supplements and he said the pain went away. It made a bit of sence to me, but the amount of food this guy consumed daily was staggering. I just wouldn't think a person would be deficient in D with the amount of animal products this man consumed. I just assumed even though he never saw the light of day for 15 years. My point is it just suprised me. Antidotially, I have been depressed (dysthymia--low level) for a good 30 years, and found sunlight didn't help me. I don't eat a lot, but i'm not a vegetarian either. I actually feel better during the winter. I do have allergies though. According to my doctor, all he ever said about depression is "All my patients are different. Oh, my fee will be $----. Your depression is situational.". I know he is partially right. (He doesn't overcharge me compared to the horror stories I have heard here. I just believe most psychotropic drugs should not require more one office visit, especially if you are on a low dose, and not abusing them.)
geoduck14 4y ago
>Went to the beach one week and got blood tested again and my vitamin D levels climbed significantly. Well, I think I just justified my beach vacation. Thanks!
hammock 4y ago
The point was that sunlight does more than raise vitamin D, not that it's better than supplementation at raising vitamin D.
nradov 4y ago
In rare cases, hypovitaminosis D can be a symptom of heavy metal toxicity. If someone is getting adequate vitamin D intake but levels are still low then it can be worth testing for metals levels. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.1994.10718447 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.1994.10...

jollybean 4y ago

Came here to say this: VD may be it, or even indirectly a measure of 'not getting outside' enough. Even the sunlight may not be it, literally a walk in the woods might be providing the effect. Or rather 'spending too much time in our own minds' etc..

digisign 4y ago
Bright, direct light seems to be a major component, which is not what most people think of being in the "woods." See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31306477 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31306477

anoplus 4y ago

I am thinking the same, and in a midst of self experiment where I ensure I get a decent dose of just seeing the world in bright daylight. Week into it and my sleep feels pretty solid. Easy to avoid daylight when working indoors all day.

annamargot 4y ago

Latitude matters though. The farther north you are the more time in the sun you’d need. In some far north places, the sun you do get is not strong enough to get any Vit D. http://web.archive.org/web/20210302053343/https://jaoa.org/article.aspx?articleid=2635300 http://web.archive.org/web/20210302053343/https://jaoa.org/a... https://www.grassrootshealth.net/document/sunshine-calendar/ https://www.grassrootshealth.net/document/sunshine-calendar/

thinkingemote 4y ago
Indeed, the UK which is further north than the majority of Canada's population has effective vitamin D from the Sun only from March to September. Spring Equinox to autumn equinox basically. The sun is too low even though it might be much warmer than lower latitudes!
- noneeeed 4y ago
  Yurp. I live in the south of England and even here I take vit D for pretty much that time period or I end up with little to no energy. I always make sure to go outside as much as I can, but when the sun is coming up at 8am and has gone down by 6pm it's pretty hard to get enough daylight and also work.
  - afr0ck 4y ago
    Worse in Edinburgh. Sunset is at 4pm for god's sake.
    - MrDresden 4y ago
      Greetings from Reykjavík Iceland
nl 4y ago
In the Southern Hemisphere (yes, people do live south of the equator) this advice is complicated by the ozone hole causing the risk of skin cancer to be much higher than in the northern hemisphere.

AnthonBerg 4y ago

Sunlight’s effects on body chemistry also have a damping effect on inflammation. It’s a funny thing. Sunlight has an impact on many chemical processes in and on the body. One example: Our skin is coated with a bunch of chemicals. There’s a number of different acidic chemicals. These are known as the “acid mantle”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_mantle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_mantle One of these substances is urocanic acid. The body manufactures it as the trans-isoform. UV light – as in sunlight – causes it to change into cis-urocanic acid. (Ultraviolet-induced isomerization.) Cis-urocanic acid fits a certain serotonin receptor – type 5-HT2A. Cis-urocanic acid is a 5-HT2A agonist. That receptor is known to be profoundly immunomodulatory. It’s super interesting! There are some recent papers on it like “ Cis-urocanic acid, a sunlight-induced immunosuppressive factor, activates immune suppression via the 5-HT2A receptor” – https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17085585/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17085585/ “Molecular basis for cis-urocanic acid as a 5-HT2A receptor agonist” – https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960894X09011135?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960894X0... This is absolutely fascinating. I think people take me as a crackpot when I point to these papers. These are just simple and solid papers from molecular biology :)

gabereiser 4y ago
You, sir, just blew my mind. I have some reading material to go through. This is fascinating indeed!!
- AnthonBerg 4y ago
  I’m so glad to be able to share these papers with someone! I have no formal higher-level education in biology btw. Just high-school level or so? And I had no idea this was a thing – I just found one of these papers purely by accident. I don’t even remember what I was digging for on Google Scholar. I think it was something related to psoriasis. (It runs in the family.) I think I might have been trying to look for any hints on whether I was really seeing my psoriasis skin condition improve after starting to take ADHD medication. – And yes, I do believe that is the case, and that it’s related to serotonin. I feel a little like this might be construed as oversharing – it’s a story about science and I don’t know how to tell it in another way :) So I got a diagnosis of ADHD at age 39½. A carefully done and clinically sound diagnosis. Many things in my life now make a lot more sense than they did. Whatever ADHD actually is. I turn out to be somewhat of a poster child?, for “internal” ADHD. I respond very well to a small dose of lisdexamfetamine. (Vyvanse in the US. Elvanse over here.) When I started taking it, old friends would say things like”uh… What happened to you? You’re so… composed? serene?” “–Ah, yes. It is all the amphetamine I am taking.” And I give them one to try? because it’s so mild? And this friend is a lot like me so it can’t be that crazy? And they spend 24 hours with a clenched jaw and can’t sleep for a whole night. Biochemistry is wild. And after a few weeks I thought my skin condition was improving. It didn’t make any sense. Didn’t even occur to me that it could be the ADHD medication. But then I tried reading about the compound on wikipedia, what it does, what receptors it acts on. And then start looking for papers with kind of random keywords on Google Scholar? Because I didn’t know what I could be looking for or the words for it? And that’s how I found out about cis-urocanic acid. I think mostly because “cis-urocanic acid” seemed like an odd and funny name for a thing. And as I learned later, word-for-word, cis-urocanic acid does have a really odd and funny meaning. It means “this-side dog-pee acid”. “Uro-canic” because that’s where they found it for the first time. And “trans urocanic acid” means “the-other-side dog pee acid”. And I’m at the computer just going “wh… what? Huh? Lol?” And yes, as far as I understand it, the lisdexamfetamine does help my psoriasis, and because of some part of its influence on the serotonin balance in my body. Amphetamines are serotonin-releasing agents. I am fascinated by the papers on that part of it but it’s also clear that I can’t speak with any confidence. As I understand it, the ever-so-slight serotonin “venting” caused by amphetamine might do a few things that cause this effect: Slightly downregulates pro-inflammatory serotonin receptors, slightly activates anti-inflammatory serotonin receptors, and sliiiightly reduces the amount of serotonin in the average blood platelet’s payload. (“Wh… what? Huh??”) And yeah, on the way there I finally learned why my skin is clearer and less inflamed in the summertime. And why the UV phototherapy for psoriasis works. And the medically prescribed trips to the suntanning clinic in the Canary Islands for the patients with really bad psoriasis? Yep, that’s a thing, and it works, and I don’t think they ever really knew why, and urocanic acid is probably a big part of the reason it does, and even if those papers are out, I bet that the dermatologists don’t know about them because there’s just so much science out there. And we have no idea how easily accessible it is. My dermatologist probably doesn’t know about Google Scholar? And certainly not sci-hub. Or the amazing discussion between scientists one can find on Twitter. Funny thing right!!

kingcharles 4y ago

I just went over 8 years without seeing the sun (jail). I wonder what the long term effects are?

elevaet 4y ago
Probably not good, and just one of the reasons why incarceration should be an absolute last resort. Welcome out!
- mcv 4y ago
  And when incarceration does happen, it should be in a humane prison where inmates get to go outside and do some normal activity. In too many parts of the world, prisons seem to be designed to be utter hellholes meant to destroy people.
hattmall 4y ago
Gahdam, they never put you on the yard?
- kingcharles 4y ago
  First 5 years was in a facility with no windows or access to the outside. Last 3 had windows that were too dirty to see out of but some feeling of sunlight came in. That facility had outside, but was allowed out probably 5 hours in total. I burned instantly after all that time without sunlight!

adfjalkfja 4y ago

Had a consult with a sleep doctor, he stressed the importance of getting out for morning light for at least 30 minutes with no sunglasses.

onesafari 4y ago
Why no sunglasses?
- purplerabbit 4y ago
  Morning light hitting your eyes has a significant psychological impact. Sunglasses cut way down on that. It’s discussed in one of Huberman’s sleep related podcast episodes if you’re interested

danamit 4y ago

Would wearing glasses, specially blue light blocking glasses make sun's effect on your circadian rhythm less pronounced?

afr0ck 4y ago
That's interesting. I have Myopia and I permanantly put glasses with Bkue light blocking. I always had trouble with my circadian rythm and very often I find it extremely hard to have a fixed sleeping schedule, let alone sleeping early. I wonder if that has smthng to do with it. I also live in a northern country where the sun is a very rare event, especially during the winter.

lesgobrandon 4y ago

dheera 4y ago

If I owned a health insurance company I'd be subsiding rents for people to move to apartments with better sunlight. It would very directly save money. I'd also cut premiums and copays for people who exercise regularly and track it. Maybe even give free national park passes and gym memberships to patients. All this stuff costs pennies compared to the cost of the various treatments that people are needing these days.

MrYellowP 4y ago

> Daily morning and afternoon exposure to bright light might actually be more important to reducing depression than direct vitamin D supplementation. I don't understand how this is even a question. It's like people have no idea what's doing them good. Sure, I understand that scientific evidence is helpful, but this isn't particularly rocket science? The difference between being in the sun and taking vitaminD is perceivable. Taking vitaminD doesn't make one feel better even to a fraction of how one feels after hours in the sun.

ceasesurthinko 4y ago

Good example of correlation and not causation. I think you are definitely onto something here. I used to take 10k IU vitamin D a day and still felt meh, but getting a bright ass white light (2300 lumens) in my room has uplifted my mood, increased wakefulness, and boosted my general productivity alot. I used to have a warm Phillips Hue and I couldn't do any work in my room without wanting to nap.

Projectiboga 4y ago

Sunlight direct on the retina either without any obstructions or only through eyelids loads an enzyme necessary for serotonin production. The required amount of sunlight on the retina to reduce depression is 3 or more 20-30 minute sessions. It is actually harder than it might seem to get that much every week.