4 ms·

With abortion being made illegal, senile presidents, Capitol invasions, rampant poverty, homelessness, crumbling infrastructure it has become clear that the US

With abortion being made illegal, senile presidents, Capitol invasions, rampant poverty, homelessness, crumbling infrastructure it has become clear that the US is on its way to becoming a failed state like Afghanistan. I think a lot of smart people are seeing the writing on the wall and making escape plans for themselves as well as for their future generations. When Rome falls, not all the wealthy Romans do.

usrn 5y ago
Abortion hasn't been (and won't be) made illegal. It's been "delegated^" back to the states where the decision belongs. There are always going to be liberal states where it's legal. The structure of the US as independent states coordinated by the federal government means people can hold mutually exclusive ideas about law and morality without having to live in separate nations. ^The states really delegate a small number of powers to the federal government, things like murder and abortion aren't among those. This is really the way it was supposed to be and Roe vs Wade was a mistake that undermined the legitimacy of the Supreme Court. So delegation is really the wrong word for this but a surprising number of people here seem to have almost no understanding of American civics. EDIT, I'm out of quota, here's my reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31304544 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31304544 : > How do you know it won't be made illegal? This ruling says the federal government has no say in abortion rights. That prevents the federal government from legislating on it. It actually protects your rights from populist right wing mobs on the other side of the continent. > Why do you assert that it was never under the mandate of the federal government? Obviously it's a contended issue. All of the powers the federal government has are delegated to it in the Constitution. Show me where this one is. >- why do you assert anyone who disagree with you is ignorant? Perhaps they listen to the very loud lobby of anti abortion goals, and view this milestone as part of a trend and extrapolate? Regardless of how they got confused it's not an accurate view of how American government works and thinking that way is harmful to both sides EDIT 2, my reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31304674 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31304674: >Here are 13 states that have "trigger laws" Right, the population there wants it banned, the population in California does not. Now both groups get what they want. It won't be banned in California and, in fact, this ruling makes it harder for republicans to ban it in states like California. This protects your rights if you live in a liberal state.
- ilrwbwrkhv 5y ago
  Two dozen states and territories would ban it immediately, and 13 have “trigger laws” waiting for the ruling.
  - usrn 5y ago
    It's still not nationally banned. You won't have to leave the country to get an abortion and if you care strongly about it you can get involved in state level politics or move. Having discussions about it at the federal level just wasted everyone's time since it's too complex to find consensus on and allowed the politicians to get away with other things because of Arrow's Theorem. EDIT: I'm out of quota, here's my reply: I don't care if it's free'd up legislative time. Because of this precedent the federal legislatures can legislate all they want but it won't be meaningful. What I do care about is that it means people can hold federal politicians more accountable for other things since they don't have to care about their stance on abortion one way or the other since nothing can be changed from the federal level.
    - fnord77 5y ago
      if the Rs take the house/senate in the midterms, a national ban is on the table https://thehill.com/news/senate/3480725-mcconnell-says-national-abortion-ban-possible/ https://thehill.com/news/senate/3480725-mcconnell-says-natio...
    - evan_ 5y ago
      Mitch McConnell is doing press hits saying the republicans are going to enact a federal law against abortion when they retake Congress. Hard to imagine this Supreme Court having a problem with that, given what we’ve all read in the leaked opinion. It sure doesn’t seem like opponents of abortion have any issues talking about it at the federal level.
      - usrn 5y ago
        That would be overreach and hopefully the Supreme Court would strike it down. The precedent from this ruling actually protects you from that sort of thing, without it the Republicans would be more capable of pushing the states to do whatever they want. I'm totally shocked at the degree to which people are upset by this since it helps both sides. The only explanation I have is that no one really understands what's going on and they're just "fighting for their tribe." EDIT: I'm out of quota, here's my reply: This isn't politicization, they're literally interpreting the constitution. Anything other than this would be politicization that would allow populist mobs to run over the states. They're not banning anything, they're giving the power back to you where it belongs.
Nextgrid 5y ago
Unfortunately the breakdown of the political discourse and the factors (including - but not limited to - stupidity) that causes it appears to be spreading to other English-speaking countries too, and I'm sure it's only a matter of time (if it hasn't happened already) that non-English-speaking countries are affected as well.
- justin66 5y ago
  > Unfortunately the breakdown of the political discourse and the stupidity that causes it appears to be spreading to other English-speaking countries too, and I'm sure it's only a matter of time (if it hasn't happened already) that non-English-speaking countries are affected as well. Thank God that kind of thing is currently limited to English-speaking countries.
- allthecybers 5y ago
  > Unfortunately the breakdown of the political discourse and the stupidity that causes it appears to be spreading to other English-speaking countries too This is a good point. I hold passports to the USA and Canada. I have considered moving to Canada over the last five-seven years and I don’t feel like it would be much of an improvement. Taxes, housing and COL are significantly higher and the political climate seems to similarly polarized. And these people seeking greener political pastures are probably taking some political dysfunction with them.

usrn 5y ago

Abortion hasn't been (and won't be) made illegal. It's been "delegated^" back to the states where the decision belongs. There are always going to be liberal states where it's legal. The structure of the US as independent states coordinated by the federal government means people can hold mutually exclusive ideas about law and morality without having to live in separate nations. ^The states really delegate a small number of powers to the federal government, things like murder and abortion aren't among those. This is really the way it was supposed to be and Roe vs Wade was a mistake that undermined the legitimacy of the Supreme Court. So delegation is really the wrong word for this but a surprising number of people here seem to have almost no understanding of American civics. EDIT, I'm out of quota, here's my reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31304544 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31304544 : > How do you know it won't be made illegal? This ruling says the federal government has no say in abortion rights. That prevents the federal government from legislating on it. It actually protects your rights from populist right wing mobs on the other side of the continent. > Why do you assert that it was never under the mandate of the federal government? Obviously it's a contended issue. All of the powers the federal government has are delegated to it in the Constitution. Show me where this one is. >- why do you assert anyone who disagree with you is ignorant? Perhaps they listen to the very loud lobby of anti abortion goals, and view this milestone as part of a trend and extrapolate? Regardless of how they got confused it's not an accurate view of how American government works and thinking that way is harmful to both sides EDIT 2, my reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31304674 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31304674: >Here are 13 states that have "trigger laws" Right, the population there wants it banned, the population in California does not. Now both groups get what they want. It won't be banned in California and, in fact, this ruling makes it harder for republicans to ban it in states like California. This protects your rights if you live in a liberal state.

ilrwbwrkhv 5y ago
Two dozen states and territories would ban it immediately, and 13 have “trigger laws” waiting for the ruling.
- usrn 5y ago
  It's still not nationally banned. You won't have to leave the country to get an abortion and if you care strongly about it you can get involved in state level politics or move. Having discussions about it at the federal level just wasted everyone's time since it's too complex to find consensus on and allowed the politicians to get away with other things because of Arrow's Theorem. EDIT: I'm out of quota, here's my reply: I don't care if it's free'd up legislative time. Because of this precedent the federal legislatures can legislate all they want but it won't be meaningful. What I do care about is that it means people can hold federal politicians more accountable for other things since they don't have to care about their stance on abortion one way or the other since nothing can be changed from the federal level.
  - fnord77 5y ago
    if the Rs take the house/senate in the midterms, a national ban is on the table https://thehill.com/news/senate/3480725-mcconnell-says-national-abortion-ban-possible/ https://thehill.com/news/senate/3480725-mcconnell-says-natio...
  - evan_ 5y ago
    Mitch McConnell is doing press hits saying the republicans are going to enact a federal law against abortion when they retake Congress. Hard to imagine this Supreme Court having a problem with that, given what we’ve all read in the leaked opinion. It sure doesn’t seem like opponents of abortion have any issues talking about it at the federal level.
    - usrn 5y ago
      That would be overreach and hopefully the Supreme Court would strike it down. The precedent from this ruling actually protects you from that sort of thing, without it the Republicans would be more capable of pushing the states to do whatever they want. I'm totally shocked at the degree to which people are upset by this since it helps both sides. The only explanation I have is that no one really understands what's going on and they're just "fighting for their tribe." EDIT: I'm out of quota, here's my reply: This isn't politicization, they're literally interpreting the constitution. Anything other than this would be politicization that would allow populist mobs to run over the states. They're not banning anything, they're giving the power back to you where it belongs.

Nextgrid 5y ago

Unfortunately the breakdown of the political discourse and the factors (including - but not limited to - stupidity) that causes it appears to be spreading to other English-speaking countries too, and I'm sure it's only a matter of time (if it hasn't happened already) that non-English-speaking countries are affected as well.

justin66 5y ago
> Unfortunately the breakdown of the political discourse and the stupidity that causes it appears to be spreading to other English-speaking countries too, and I'm sure it's only a matter of time (if it hasn't happened already) that non-English-speaking countries are affected as well. Thank God that kind of thing is currently limited to English-speaking countries.
allthecybers 5y ago
> Unfortunately the breakdown of the political discourse and the stupidity that causes it appears to be spreading to other English-speaking countries too This is a good point. I hold passports to the USA and Canada. I have considered moving to Canada over the last five-seven years and I don’t feel like it would be much of an improvement. Taxes, housing and COL are significantly higher and the political climate seems to similarly polarized. And these people seeking greener political pastures are probably taking some political dysfunction with them.