4 ms·

I feel like you don't get to piss all over the design if you've never built a physical interface that has to be weatherproof on an exposed device that holds mon

I feel like you don't get to piss all over the design if you've never built a physical interface that has to be weatherproof on an exposed device that holds money.

frereubu 4y ago
This isn't about security or being weatherproof. This is about basics, like using a QWERTY keyboard that everyone's familiar with, and clear instructions that are easy to follow. I work in tech and each time I see one of these I'm glad I can pay by smartphone.
- sofixa 4y ago
  QWERTY isn't the official worldwide standard. These machines are also used in France, where AZERTY is the (imho terrible) norm.
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    However the 3-row layout is mostly the same everywhere so it would just be a matter of swapping plastic overlays & keymaps in software.
  - frereubu 4y ago
    This machine is in the UK.
    - dazc 4y ago
      Obviously, where else would you find such pettiness? Relying upon a machine that is so complex and frustrating to use far outweighs the tiny loss of revenue for when people pass on unused parking time to someone else.
  - bin_bash 4y ago
    ok but no layout puts the "0" as the first digit
    - bmacho 4y ago
      TIL that no layouts put 0 as first digit. Not US, UK, FR, German or so. Somehow I thought the opposite, I was sure that my layout (Hungarian[1]) is about the same as every other, most probably a direct copy of the German, but nah. [1]: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=hungarian+keyboard+layout&iar=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=hungarian+keyboard+layout&iar=imag...
      - layer8 4y ago
        Earlier typewriters didn’t have 0 and 1 keys [1] and instead the O and l keys did double duty. When 0 and 1 keys were finally added on typewriters, there probably wasn’t enough space to add them both on the left side. The fact that the previously used O key is to the right may also have been a factor. [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Olivetti_Lettera_22_by_LjL.jpeg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Olivetti...
  - xmodem 4y ago
    is it not possible to re-configure the machine to match the market it's going to?
- grokx 4y ago
  I worked for a while as a contractor for Parkeon/Flowbird, and asked about the keyboard layout to a hardware manager there. His explanation was that they did not use AZERTY or QWERTY because it wouldn't work for foreigners.
cookie_monsta 4y ago
I feel like every interface designer should be forced to watch, clockwork orange-style as uninitiated users attempt to navigate their creations before they are unleashed on the public.
- tobr 4y ago
  We already do, it’s called user testing.
  - jen20 4y ago
    Well then why don’t you fix them after said testing? There is literally no excuse for taking over a second to respond to a button press. A ZX Spectrum would be more responsive than most of these stupid machines.
  - BeFlatXIII 4y ago
    Then do more and fix the problems.
adhesive_wombat 4y ago
Also it must last for, say, 15 years, be installable by road workers, and deal with abuse from not only the theives, but also vandals and construction workers repairing the road and pavement nearby.
- amelius 4y ago
  I'd say it's still super easy to vandalize though, by just squeezing a tube of superglue into e.g. the card slot, making sure one isn't caught on CCTV of course.
  - adhesive_wombat 4y ago
    Luckily, most vandalism doesn't appear to be committed by people with the intelligence to cause real damage, they just spray paint their initials on it, try to set the metal box on fire or scratch or dent the case. There's only so much one can do to defend a 1mm slot that has to accept a plastic card (ditto for coin slots).
- noirbot 4y ago
  That's part of the issue though, isn't it? Someone paints over the keyboard and you have no idea where anything is because it's not a normal layout for a keyboard. If it was QWERTY and then a numpad, some people would be able to use it blindly, or pull up their phone to check positions.
  - adhesive_wombat 4y ago
    Like I said above, it's probably an idea that an alphabetical layout is somewhat familiar to everyone, but a QWERTY layout is only familiar to people who type. Not that long ago, fewer people than you might expect were familiar with QWERTY keyboards (no smartphones before about 2006). These machines are also for use by people who have never used a computer or smartphone, and, incurring the elderly people that councils have to consider, they exist. I'm guessing at their reasoning, but "everyone knows QWERTY" is probably not as true as you think, or if it is, it hasn't been so for that long. It could also be an international company that doesn't want to have SKUs for the keypad for every region (eg France uses AZERTY).
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rwmj 4y ago
It needs to be vandalproof because every time I use one I feel the need to hit the stupid thing. Luckily I'm pretty mild-mannered, but I'm sure many are not.

I feel like you don't get to piss all over the design if you've never built a physical interface that has to be weatherproof on an exposed device that holds money.

frereubu 4y ago

This isn't about security or being weatherproof. This is about basics, like using a QWERTY keyboard that everyone's familiar with, and clear instructions that are easy to follow. I work in tech and each time I see one of these I'm glad I can pay by smartphone.

sofixa 4y ago
QWERTY isn't the official worldwide standard. These machines are also used in France, where AZERTY is the (imho terrible) norm.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  However the 3-row layout is mostly the same everywhere so it would just be a matter of swapping plastic overlays & keymaps in software.
- frereubu 4y ago
  This machine is in the UK.
  - dazc 4y ago
    Obviously, where else would you find such pettiness? Relying upon a machine that is so complex and frustrating to use far outweighs the tiny loss of revenue for when people pass on unused parking time to someone else.
- bin_bash 4y ago
  ok but no layout puts the "0" as the first digit
  - bmacho 4y ago
    TIL that no layouts put 0 as first digit. Not US, UK, FR, German or so. Somehow I thought the opposite, I was sure that my layout (Hungarian[1]) is about the same as every other, most probably a direct copy of the German, but nah. [1]: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=hungarian+keyboard+layout&iar=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=hungarian+keyboard+layout&iar=imag...
    - layer8 4y ago
      Earlier typewriters didn’t have 0 and 1 keys [1] and instead the O and l keys did double duty. When 0 and 1 keys were finally added on typewriters, there probably wasn’t enough space to add them both on the left side. The fact that the previously used O key is to the right may also have been a factor. [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Olivetti_Lettera_22_by_LjL.jpeg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Olivetti...
- xmodem 4y ago
  is it not possible to re-configure the machine to match the market it's going to?
grokx 4y ago
I worked for a while as a contractor for Parkeon/Flowbird, and asked about the keyboard layout to a hardware manager there. His explanation was that they did not use AZERTY or QWERTY because it wouldn't work for foreigners.

cookie_monsta 4y ago

I feel like every interface designer should be forced to watch, clockwork orange-style as uninitiated users attempt to navigate their creations before they are unleashed on the public.

tobr 4y ago
We already do, it’s called user testing.
- jen20 4y ago
  Well then why don’t you fix them after said testing? There is literally no excuse for taking over a second to respond to a button press. A ZX Spectrum would be more responsive than most of these stupid machines.
- BeFlatXIII 4y ago
  Then do more and fix the problems.

adhesive_wombat 4y ago

Also it must last for, say, 15 years, be installable by road workers, and deal with abuse from not only the theives, but also vandals and construction workers repairing the road and pavement nearby.

amelius 4y ago
I'd say it's still super easy to vandalize though, by just squeezing a tube of superglue into e.g. the card slot, making sure one isn't caught on CCTV of course.
- adhesive_wombat 4y ago
  Luckily, most vandalism doesn't appear to be committed by people with the intelligence to cause real damage, they just spray paint their initials on it, try to set the metal box on fire or scratch or dent the case. There's only so much one can do to defend a 1mm slot that has to accept a plastic card (ditto for coin slots).
noirbot 4y ago
That's part of the issue though, isn't it? Someone paints over the keyboard and you have no idea where anything is because it's not a normal layout for a keyboard. If it was QWERTY and then a numpad, some people would be able to use it blindly, or pull up their phone to check positions.
- adhesive_wombat 4y ago
  Like I said above, it's probably an idea that an alphabetical layout is somewhat familiar to everyone, but a QWERTY layout is only familiar to people who type. Not that long ago, fewer people than you might expect were familiar with QWERTY keyboards (no smartphones before about 2006). These machines are also for use by people who have never used a computer or smartphone, and, incurring the elderly people that councils have to consider, they exist. I'm guessing at their reasoning, but "everyone knows QWERTY" is probably not as true as you think, or if it is, it hasn't been so for that long. It could also be an international company that doesn't want to have SKUs for the keypad for every region (eg France uses AZERTY).

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

rwmj 4y ago

It needs to be vandalproof because every time I use one I feel the need to hit the stupid thing. Luckily I'm pretty mild-mannered, but I'm sure many are not.