4 ms·

Let’s not pretend that China’s laws and norms are comparable to those of the US here, though. Yes, it’s reasonable to be skeptical of all states, but there’s de

• pphysch 4y ago
  Simply not true. For every (actual, not just FLG disinfo) overreach of Beijing you can find one for Washington You are more likely to be permanently incarcerated in America than China
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • ms4720 4y ago
    That is right, hard to survive a firing squad
    • shapefrog 4y ago
      A firing squad is just another form of lethal injection.
• roenxi 4y ago
  They are comparable. China is still worse, but: 1) I fully expect to see the US government make up most of the US economy by spending in my lifetime (I'd argue they are already there, but that involves an argument I don't feel like typing). 2) COVID shows us that the US government also sees their role as deploying an invasive level of social control for The Greater Good. COVID level threats aren't going to be that rare, we'll see another one in our lifetimes. 3) The US government pioneered using phones to support a global surveillance apparatus (probably military too, I expect more than one missile has been targeted on an iPhone). So to repeat myself, although I'd still rather take the Americans than the Chinese, these are not categorically different things. They see their roles as the same and their methods are converging. Especially on the subject of surveillance and the risks it poses to ordinary people.
  • jolux 4y ago
    2) is a weird objection to level given as almost all restrictions have been lifted in the US and China remains a repressive nightmare on this issue as it has been since 2020. The US did not come anywhere near what China did with regards to lockdowns. And it’s a core responsibility of all states to protect their citizens. Overall our response was bad but we developed effective vaccines that have mostly saved us now while China refuses to use them for nationalistic reasons. Very different situations.
  • seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    China lacks rule of law, or even an attempt at it: the Chinese government has stated that the notion of rule of law is just western imperialism. This is why, China having a constitution that guarantees freedom of speech, religion, assembly, and so on, is completely meaningless (no independent judiciary means the law is whatever officials claim it is) whereas an attempt of rule of law is actually made in the USA, even if it is far from perfect. Ironically, we are debating Singapore in parent, which has extremely strong rule of law, but the laws are such that security is prioritized.
    • pjmlp 4y ago
      I bet the guys taken blindfolded by CIA, questioned in the middle of somewhere, and then brought back, will fully agree how much better the US system happens to be. Naturally the ones that survived the question process.
      • jolux 4y ago
        It’s not that there’s nothing to criticize about the US and this example is one of the worst things the US does. However a key difference is that the CIA is not doing this to American citizens, we can be sure that if it were there would be considerably more outrage. In China this sort of treatment is on the table for anyone who crosses the line.
        • pjmlp 4y ago