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I appreciate the writing style, but this article is shockingly naive to me. Convenient consumer products tend to sell better than less convenient ones, even if

I appreciate the writing style, but this article is shockingly naive to me. Convenient consumer products tend to sell better than less convenient ones, even if the product is worse. That's the entire story. People have finite time, so when they receive more income they will tend to spend it to reduce the time they spend doing things that they don't care about. I for one hate spending time doing all the things that the products in the article make more convenient, and happily pay more so I can spend my time on other things. * I don't like shaving, so I optimize for razors that get the job done faster (more blades, easier to swap a new blade) * I don't like cleaning pans, so I buy pans I can clean faster and don't have to "season" * I don't like filling bags with tea, so I buy tea bags that are pre-filled * (nespresso) I actually enjoy the ritual of making espresso, so I use a real espresso machine * I bike every day to and from work, so I take it a step further and buy an E-bike with no shifter * I don't want to fiddle with chromecast or fire stick, so I just use my TV's built in smart features * (inner city shops don't sell individual pieces of fruit) I live in SF, it's very easy to find individual fruits here * I don't like going to grocery stores, so I pay to have groceries delivered to me My time is precious to me, so instead of spending money on luxury items I spend money to save time. Evidently so do most other people.

jimmaswell 4y ago
Cast iron becomes very low maintenance after the seasoning is started. I don't even usually wash mine. Everything slides right off at the end. Just let it heat up before using it, use a moderately high heat but not too high, and it's a nonstick pan without the carcinogens.
- mgraczyk 4y ago
  > Just let it heat up before using it No lol that's the whole point > without the carcinogens. I'll take that trade, I'm not going to spend my 30s sitting around waiting for pans to heat up because there's some very small probability a pan will harm me.
  - drakonka 4y ago
    For some reason I always thought that for most cooking you want the pan to be at the desired final temperature before throwing in the ingredients anyway to get the optimum taste and texture.
    - mgraczyk 4y ago
      Thinner pans heat up faster
      - drakonka 4y ago
        I'm definitely no pan expert, but I think there are now cast iron options that heat up very quickly, so maybe one doesn't have to compromise on that. I've had a Ronneby Bruk "ultra light" cast iron pan for years and it tends to heat up within a few minutes. At this point I don't remember what a regular pan's heat-up time is though, maybe I've just gotten used to the "pain".
        s0rce 4y ago
        Probably carbon steel made from thinner sheets, there is a limit to how thin you can practically make a cast iron pan due to the brittle nature of the material and the casting process. The resulting properties with respect to seasoning are basically the same if the surface finish is consistent.
        drakonka 4y ago
        No, I'm pretty sure this is cast iron: "The raw material in Ultra Light Original is exactly the same as for our traditional cast iron. The difference is that with the new technique, the pans are less porous. This explains why the pans responds much quicker to changes in the stove’s power effect, and why they heat up and cool down faster than traditional cast iron cookware." https://ronnebybruk.us/blogs/cookware/ultralight-original https://ronnebybruk.us/blogs/cookware/ultralight-original It isn't near-feather-light like some pans I've picked up in the store for sure. It's just light enough to be a noticeable difference from other cast iron pans I've tried, like being much more comfortable to hold one-handed.
- stickfigure 4y ago
  Cast iron is a poor cooking surface because iron (and steel, and stainless steel) has poor thermal conductivity. The consequence is uneven heating (especially on an electric cooktop) and hotspots. The edges are distinctly colder than the center of the pan, and you have to push your food around to ensure even cooking. Aluminum has much better thermal conductivity, but is a terrible surface to cook on (soft, oxidizes, imparts flavors to acidic foods). The best compromise is a clad pan with aluminum sandwitched between layers of stainless. I switched from cooking on cast iron to cooking on clad and it makes a huge difference. This guy took a bunch of IR camera shots demonstrating the effect: https://www.centurylife.org/is-all-clad-worth-it-is-it-still-made-in-america-why-does-it-cost-so-much-what-are-some-alternatives/ https://www.centurylife.org/is-all-clad-worth-it-is-it-still... > it's a nonstick pan without the carcinogens. Strictly speaking, this is false. The seasoning on a cast iron pan is burnt oil. It is without question mildly carcinogenic. Not so much that I've thrown away my cast iron - I still use it occasionally - but I wouldn't tout it as having health benefits (except maybe a tiny increase in iron consumption). FWIW the newer ceramic nonstick pans are incredible and nearly indestructible. Clad is still my go-to, but I use the henckles granitium pans from costco for anything with egg in it. Two years later they still work like new.
  - asah 4y ago
    I actually like uneven cooking surfaces and use this to create effects in my stovetop cooking. If I want evenness, it's easy just stir or swirl - but getting unevenness is more work. A wok is a perfect example of using unevenness and motion to control your cooking, and for frying I mostly use a cast iron pan and for serious heat, a wok with a ring adapter and high BTU stove.
    - stickfigure 4y ago
      Cooking technique on a wok is very, very different from cooking technique in a skillet. You're expected to move the food around! That's why they call it stir-fry. Nobody (at least, of normal human build) picks up a cast iron skillet and tumbles food. Woks are great, but you wouldn't pan-fry a steak in a wok.
  - 4y ago
- dzhiurgis 4y ago
  > without the carcinogens. Isn’t it completely opposite? Teflon is incredibly inert and nobody knows what really happens in cast seasoning other than - it’s burned food!?
zgiber 4y ago
I get the convenience part but the waste reduction itself is already worth the switch. Yeah your shaving cartridge or flaking teflon pan might be a drop in the ocean (perhaps literally) but when there are billions of humans around we should think about what inconvenience does it worth to keep our environment lovable.
- mgraczyk 4y ago
  I throw my cartridges in the trash, and they end up in a landfill forever with no environmental harm. I haven't looked into Teflon but I've disposed of ~1 pan in my entire life and still have the rest, so my impact is probably negligible. I choose to focus my time and energy minimizing environmental impact more effectively. For example, instead of using a DE razor, I use that time to commute by bike instead of car, This results in overall much less waste and a lifestyle that I prefer.
  - wiether 4y ago
    > they end up in a landfill forever with no environmental harm Can you please explain to me how a landfill doesn't cause environmental harm?
    - mgraczyk 4y ago
      Chemicals can leech out of landfills into water tables and waterways. Landfills can also emit greenhouse gasses. None of these happen as a result of burying shaving cartridges. It's no different than the sand that's already below ground. It essentially just sits there. The production and transportation of the cartridge could harm the environment though, but that's a more complicated story.
      - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
        Any landfill made in the last 50yr has a sump and the liquid nastiness gets its own direct line to the local water treatment plant. Likewise they capture or flare the methane.
tasuki 4y ago
> I don't like filling bags with tea, so I buy tea bags that are pre-filled Uh, that's not how loose leaf tea is used... Usually one would use a strainer or a gaiwan. Your point still stands, tea bags are less hassle, you just won't get to drink fine oolong or puerh. I don't mind cleaning the gaiwan - taking out the leaves takes a couple seconds.
- jjulius 4y ago
  Right - putting my loose leaf into a strainer or a gaiwan, and then emptying either of them, takes nearly no longer than grabbing my tea bag, opening it and dropping it into a cup.
  - coastflow 4y ago
    There are additional steps. You need to take a spoon (extra tool), scoop out the loose leaf tea from the container, make sure not to spill it, and then pour it into the strainer. After steeping, you need to dump the used leaves (assuming you aren't planning to re-steep) with more potential for spillage than when disposing a tea bag, then take the strainer to the sink, add a tiny drop of dish soap, rinse the strainer, and find a place to dry it (e.g. over an empty jar). It's not difficult, and the extra steps are personally worth it as loose leaf tea generally tastes better. However, for people who aren't concerned about the taste difference, it's nice to have one less task (where spillage is a concern) to pay attention to.
    - tasuki 4y ago
      Oh since we're nitpicking... :) > You need to take a spoon (extra tool), scoop out the loose leaf tea from the container I tilt the container and use the Earth's gravity to get them leaves out. I'm not afraid to use my fingers when no one's watching! With puerh it's more of a fight, I'm not afraid to use whatever's at my disposal to pry the leaves out the cake. > you need to dump the used leaves [...] with more potential for spillage than when disposing a tea bag Yes but it's more ecological - the leaves can be composted while the tea bag can't. > (assuming you aren't planning to re-steep) I definitely am planning to re-steep. With puerh, I'm even going as far as disposing of the first two steeps. I'm too fancy to drink them! > then take the strainer to the sink, add a tiny drop of dish soap, rinse the strainer, and find a place to dry it The gaiwan goes inside the dishwasher like everything else.
paintman252 4y ago
"My time is precious to me" Not to be snarky, but considering you're leaving comments here then I doubt it
- crossroadsguy 4y ago
  I think it’s the loneliness then. The other thread about why we waste our time on the Internet had that as the top comment. So you see loneliness makes us waste this part of our time probably in an futile attempt to deal with loneliness, forge a connection, having some kind of reassurance that we have a voice and maybe we matter even though we so don’t. So this comment isn’t waste of OP’s time if OP likes to do this or wants to do this and gets gratification from it (even if doesn’t last beyond hitting the submit button). OP even mentioned that coffee thing in the similar vein. So I think you were being snarky. Maybe inadvertently? Or just another knee-jerk comment like most of HN? :)
- Too 4y ago
  All time is not equal. Willpower is finite. People would look strange on me if i started shaving while commuting on the train. Here i have ample of time to read. One could also simply prefer watch junk on the telly to wind down after a long day of work, rather than seasoning my pan again. (Personally, i do have a seasoned skillet, it's a amazing) Take this thinking too far and one should even give up washing machines and go back to hand laundry?
neuralRiot 4y ago
I wonder what you do with all the 20 minutes total you save a year. Still I don’t blame you but I’m a person who enjoys doing things the “hard” way, that lets you enjoy the results and contemplate things in a different way.
- nine_k 4y ago
  It's not about 20 minutes saved per year, it may be about 3 seconds of intense frustration not experienced every morning. Can be well worth it.
- openknot 4y ago
  For me, it's about not being late or having to skip tasks (e.g. shaving). I used to also enjoy doing everything the "hard" way (e.g. pourover coffee instead of using a machine, and especially shaving with a double-edged safety razor instead of an electric razor). However, there were times I had to skip coffee making to start a commute on time. The tipping point was when I was slightly late for a couple of low-stakes meetings because shaving with a safety razor took so long (lather, three passes, rinse), so I had to take an alternative commuting route after missing a train. There were other times when I chose to skip shaving and buy coffee outside to make a meeting on time (taking extra time to walk to the coffee shop, line up, and buy coffee). I remembered never having these issues of having to skip shaving when using an electric razor. I've now returned to using one for most days, and also usually use a brew machine. It's nicer to have less stress in the morning. You could say that I could manage my time better in the morning by waking up an extra half hour earlier, but I've found it very nice to make my life a bit easier while other parts of my days are more stressful.
- crossroadsguy 4y ago
  No one ever does or can do “everything” the “hard” way. We all have our own opinionated and preferred lists of easy way and hard way things. e.g for me that’s fountain pens, train journeys instead of flights, paper journals, exclusively reading paper books etc. Saving time from shaving doesn’t necessarily mean the saved time will be used in something like saving the world. It just means less time was spent on shaving than it would have taken if OP did shaving your so called “hard” way. Also your 20m shaved annually seems very weird. There are approximately 365 days in a year and one “easy” way shave, imho, definitely saves more than approx 0.055m compared to a hard way shave if one shaves daily without a miss :-P
eoerl 4y ago
How much of that have you actually benchmarked, time wise ? I think it’s the point of the article, most of our “benchmarking” is actually marketing. To take an example I’ve been using a cast iron pan for years after having used Teflon all my life, cast iron doesn’t take any more time to use (initial seasoning vs. timely replacement, you can even factor that out)
waynesonfire 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- op00to 4y ago
  Please don’t decrease SNR with personal attacks like this.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
beloch 4y ago
Modern trackball,flexing, etc. multi-blade razors are expensive, but idiot proof. You can copy one of the Gillette commercials and just mash the thing to your face and make one long stroke through the chemical foam. Bam. Done. If you're happy with this, be happy. Read no further. What this article isn't telling you is that DE razors can be almost as fast, but there's a learning curve. They don't flex, bend, or rotate to the right angle, so you must hold them at the right angle, even when you're going around curves. There's just one blade, so it's easy to apply too much pressure and give yourself razor burn, so you must learn to use minimal pressure. It takes time to learn these skills. Is learning how to shave with a DE correctly and quickly worth saving money? If money is no concern for you, then no. However, there are other benefits. One pass of a five bladed razor is, you guessed it, five blades being dragged across your face, and likely with more pressure than is necessary given how much pressure is required just to make the flexing, rotating razor engage with your face. If skin irritation, ingrown hairs, etc. are a problem for you, then learning how to properly shave with a DE razor can dramatically reduce those problems. However, things may be worse at first while you're learning technique. This is all even more true if you're the sort who suffers from irritation and reuses cartridges too long to save a little money. Dull blades make skin irritation worse. Another thing this article isn't mentioning is shaving soap. Most of us are used to chemical gel's or foams. To be blunt, they all smell awful and feel gross. Again, it takes slightly more time and a little technique must be learned, but traditional shave soap with a badger hair brush, lathered on the face, is something everyone should at least try. There are some awesome smelling soaps out there, and lathering on your face with a good badger brush feels amazing. If you hate shaving, this is a switch that might change your mind. If you hate something, you can spend less time on it, or you can look for ways to make it more enjoyable.
- omnicognate 4y ago
  > Most of us are used to chemical gel's or foams. Much better than these and shaving soap / brush, is Somerset's Shaving Oil[1]. King of Shaves do a shaving oil too, but it's nowhere near as good. Not affiliated, I just love the stuff. You can use it with shaving soap too, but I just use it on its own. At one point I was worried the company might go under so I bought a big box of it just in case. It's not a great business model as one little bottle lasts months. You only use 3 drops per shave. [1] https://www.somersets.com/(X(1)S(hrhdq4w0o12w1qjoh0myxyml))/ProductBuy.aspx?product_id=4 https://www.somersets.com/(X(1)S(hrhdq4w0o12w1qjoh0myxyml))/...
crossroadsguy 4y ago
I couldn’t avoid cuts even with those gliding-smooth-precision-etc razors so I just use a Philips beard trimmer. As quick as it gets, doesn’t give that weirdly smooth look during the first day after the shave and facial hair remains mostly soft now; during shaving days they would grow to be very hard. No soap, no after whatever splash et al needed. One purchase runs for years literally. I have used them without a mirror. I shaved my head with it once and it was a perfect shave.
eyelidlessness 4y ago
> That's the entire story. That’s the obvious market story but not even the entire story in the post. The lack of available alternatives is a real thing. Several of the examples in the article feel like real losses to me. Another example: last I looked, I can’t even buy a mouse with the form factor and features I want unless I give up and charge batteries. The thing I want to buy existed under many model names over the last 20 years, apparently now I need to start looking second hand. This is true for lots of wired devices, it’s almost impossible to find many of them or a spiritual successor now. I don’t want all of my secondary devices to be battery powered. I’m clearly a minority in the market, or at least untargeted as one. I don’t begrudge anyone their preferences or conveniences, but I definitely miss some of the things I used to be able to find which are now just relics.
- ddingus 4y ago
  Same. I was pleased to find a simple wired mouse in my Raspi 400 kit. May buy a couple more of the mice by themselves. I do not always like wires, but wireless is kind of a mess. Pairing, charging, quality of info transfer problems... So, I bought a bunch of wired, high quality earbuds, am going to to get some mice too. Those things just work and the quality/consistency of input / output is something I value way more than not having a wire.
hnfong 4y ago
Totally agree with your points. On the other extreme, (and due to my personal interest in practicing knife sharpening), I ended up using a pocket knife and a couple quality sharpening stones as my “razor”. Too lazy to calculate whether the long term cost is worth it, but the setup will probably last me a lifetime. If avoiding waste is really the highest priority (over convenience) then I would argue that sharpening your own razor blade is the only rational way to shave.
ernie24 4y ago
>so I optimize for razors that get the job done faster (more blades, easier to swap a new blade) Razors like G. Mach3 or similar are neither really much faster nor better in any way (I compare them against my $25 "classical" metal razor "Timor Solingen 1322"). The fact that so many people think otherwise is a proof that marketing departments of G. or Edgewell (Wilkinson) did a very good job.

jimmaswell 4y ago

Cast iron becomes very low maintenance after the seasoning is started. I don't even usually wash mine. Everything slides right off at the end. Just let it heat up before using it, use a moderately high heat but not too high, and it's a nonstick pan without the carcinogens.

mgraczyk 4y ago
> Just let it heat up before using it No lol that's the whole point > without the carcinogens. I'll take that trade, I'm not going to spend my 30s sitting around waiting for pans to heat up because there's some very small probability a pan will harm me.
- drakonka 4y ago
  For some reason I always thought that for most cooking you want the pan to be at the desired final temperature before throwing in the ingredients anyway to get the optimum taste and texture.
  - mgraczyk 4y ago
    Thinner pans heat up faster
    - drakonka 4y ago
      I'm definitely no pan expert, but I think there are now cast iron options that heat up very quickly, so maybe one doesn't have to compromise on that. I've had a Ronneby Bruk "ultra light" cast iron pan for years and it tends to heat up within a few minutes. At this point I don't remember what a regular pan's heat-up time is though, maybe I've just gotten used to the "pain".
      - s0rce 4y ago
        Probably carbon steel made from thinner sheets, there is a limit to how thin you can practically make a cast iron pan due to the brittle nature of the material and the casting process. The resulting properties with respect to seasoning are basically the same if the surface finish is consistent.
        drakonka 4y ago
        No, I'm pretty sure this is cast iron: "The raw material in Ultra Light Original is exactly the same as for our traditional cast iron. The difference is that with the new technique, the pans are less porous. This explains why the pans responds much quicker to changes in the stove’s power effect, and why they heat up and cool down faster than traditional cast iron cookware." https://ronnebybruk.us/blogs/cookware/ultralight-original https://ronnebybruk.us/blogs/cookware/ultralight-original It isn't near-feather-light like some pans I've picked up in the store for sure. It's just light enough to be a noticeable difference from other cast iron pans I've tried, like being much more comfortable to hold one-handed.
stickfigure 4y ago
Cast iron is a poor cooking surface because iron (and steel, and stainless steel) has poor thermal conductivity. The consequence is uneven heating (especially on an electric cooktop) and hotspots. The edges are distinctly colder than the center of the pan, and you have to push your food around to ensure even cooking. Aluminum has much better thermal conductivity, but is a terrible surface to cook on (soft, oxidizes, imparts flavors to acidic foods). The best compromise is a clad pan with aluminum sandwitched between layers of stainless. I switched from cooking on cast iron to cooking on clad and it makes a huge difference. This guy took a bunch of IR camera shots demonstrating the effect: https://www.centurylife.org/is-all-clad-worth-it-is-it-still-made-in-america-why-does-it-cost-so-much-what-are-some-alternatives/ https://www.centurylife.org/is-all-clad-worth-it-is-it-still... > it's a nonstick pan without the carcinogens. Strictly speaking, this is false. The seasoning on a cast iron pan is burnt oil. It is without question mildly carcinogenic. Not so much that I've thrown away my cast iron - I still use it occasionally - but I wouldn't tout it as having health benefits (except maybe a tiny increase in iron consumption). FWIW the newer ceramic nonstick pans are incredible and nearly indestructible. Clad is still my go-to, but I use the henckles granitium pans from costco for anything with egg in it. Two years later they still work like new.
- asah 4y ago
  I actually like uneven cooking surfaces and use this to create effects in my stovetop cooking. If I want evenness, it's easy just stir or swirl - but getting unevenness is more work. A wok is a perfect example of using unevenness and motion to control your cooking, and for frying I mostly use a cast iron pan and for serious heat, a wok with a ring adapter and high BTU stove.
  - stickfigure 4y ago
    Cooking technique on a wok is very, very different from cooking technique in a skillet. You're expected to move the food around! That's why they call it stir-fry. Nobody (at least, of normal human build) picks up a cast iron skillet and tumbles food. Woks are great, but you wouldn't pan-fry a steak in a wok.
- 4y ago
dzhiurgis 4y ago
> without the carcinogens. Isn’t it completely opposite? Teflon is incredibly inert and nobody knows what really happens in cast seasoning other than - it’s burned food!?

zgiber 4y ago

I get the convenience part but the waste reduction itself is already worth the switch. Yeah your shaving cartridge or flaking teflon pan might be a drop in the ocean (perhaps literally) but when there are billions of humans around we should think about what inconvenience does it worth to keep our environment lovable.

mgraczyk 4y ago
I throw my cartridges in the trash, and they end up in a landfill forever with no environmental harm. I haven't looked into Teflon but I've disposed of ~1 pan in my entire life and still have the rest, so my impact is probably negligible. I choose to focus my time and energy minimizing environmental impact more effectively. For example, instead of using a DE razor, I use that time to commute by bike instead of car, This results in overall much less waste and a lifestyle that I prefer.
- wiether 4y ago
  > they end up in a landfill forever with no environmental harm Can you please explain to me how a landfill doesn't cause environmental harm?
  - mgraczyk 4y ago
    Chemicals can leech out of landfills into water tables and waterways. Landfills can also emit greenhouse gasses. None of these happen as a result of burying shaving cartridges. It's no different than the sand that's already below ground. It essentially just sits there. The production and transportation of the cartridge could harm the environment though, but that's a more complicated story.
    - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
      Any landfill made in the last 50yr has a sump and the liquid nastiness gets its own direct line to the local water treatment plant. Likewise they capture or flare the methane.

tasuki 4y ago

> I don't like filling bags with tea, so I buy tea bags that are pre-filled Uh, that's not how loose leaf tea is used... Usually one would use a strainer or a gaiwan. Your point still stands, tea bags are less hassle, you just won't get to drink fine oolong or puerh. I don't mind cleaning the gaiwan - taking out the leaves takes a couple seconds.

jjulius 4y ago
Right - putting my loose leaf into a strainer or a gaiwan, and then emptying either of them, takes nearly no longer than grabbing my tea bag, opening it and dropping it into a cup.
- coastflow 4y ago
  There are additional steps. You need to take a spoon (extra tool), scoop out the loose leaf tea from the container, make sure not to spill it, and then pour it into the strainer. After steeping, you need to dump the used leaves (assuming you aren't planning to re-steep) with more potential for spillage than when disposing a tea bag, then take the strainer to the sink, add a tiny drop of dish soap, rinse the strainer, and find a place to dry it (e.g. over an empty jar). It's not difficult, and the extra steps are personally worth it as loose leaf tea generally tastes better. However, for people who aren't concerned about the taste difference, it's nice to have one less task (where spillage is a concern) to pay attention to.
  - tasuki 4y ago
    Oh since we're nitpicking... :) > You need to take a spoon (extra tool), scoop out the loose leaf tea from the container I tilt the container and use the Earth's gravity to get them leaves out. I'm not afraid to use my fingers when no one's watching! With puerh it's more of a fight, I'm not afraid to use whatever's at my disposal to pry the leaves out the cake. > you need to dump the used leaves [...] with more potential for spillage than when disposing a tea bag Yes but it's more ecological - the leaves can be composted while the tea bag can't. > (assuming you aren't planning to re-steep) I definitely am planning to re-steep. With puerh, I'm even going as far as disposing of the first two steeps. I'm too fancy to drink them! > then take the strainer to the sink, add a tiny drop of dish soap, rinse the strainer, and find a place to dry it The gaiwan goes inside the dishwasher like everything else.

paintman252 4y ago

"My time is precious to me" Not to be snarky, but considering you're leaving comments here then I doubt it

crossroadsguy 4y ago
I think it’s the loneliness then. The other thread about why we waste our time on the Internet had that as the top comment. So you see loneliness makes us waste this part of our time probably in an futile attempt to deal with loneliness, forge a connection, having some kind of reassurance that we have a voice and maybe we matter even though we so don’t. So this comment isn’t waste of OP’s time if OP likes to do this or wants to do this and gets gratification from it (even if doesn’t last beyond hitting the submit button). OP even mentioned that coffee thing in the similar vein. So I think you were being snarky. Maybe inadvertently? Or just another knee-jerk comment like most of HN? :)
Too 4y ago
All time is not equal. Willpower is finite. People would look strange on me if i started shaving while commuting on the train. Here i have ample of time to read. One could also simply prefer watch junk on the telly to wind down after a long day of work, rather than seasoning my pan again. (Personally, i do have a seasoned skillet, it's a amazing) Take this thinking too far and one should even give up washing machines and go back to hand laundry?

neuralRiot 4y ago

I wonder what you do with all the 20 minutes total you save a year. Still I don’t blame you but I’m a person who enjoys doing things the “hard” way, that lets you enjoy the results and contemplate things in a different way.

nine_k 4y ago
It's not about 20 minutes saved per year, it may be about 3 seconds of intense frustration not experienced every morning. Can be well worth it.
openknot 4y ago
For me, it's about not being late or having to skip tasks (e.g. shaving). I used to also enjoy doing everything the "hard" way (e.g. pourover coffee instead of using a machine, and especially shaving with a double-edged safety razor instead of an electric razor). However, there were times I had to skip coffee making to start a commute on time. The tipping point was when I was slightly late for a couple of low-stakes meetings because shaving with a safety razor took so long (lather, three passes, rinse), so I had to take an alternative commuting route after missing a train. There were other times when I chose to skip shaving and buy coffee outside to make a meeting on time (taking extra time to walk to the coffee shop, line up, and buy coffee). I remembered never having these issues of having to skip shaving when using an electric razor. I've now returned to using one for most days, and also usually use a brew machine. It's nicer to have less stress in the morning. You could say that I could manage my time better in the morning by waking up an extra half hour earlier, but I've found it very nice to make my life a bit easier while other parts of my days are more stressful.
crossroadsguy 4y ago
No one ever does or can do “everything” the “hard” way. We all have our own opinionated and preferred lists of easy way and hard way things. e.g for me that’s fountain pens, train journeys instead of flights, paper journals, exclusively reading paper books etc. Saving time from shaving doesn’t necessarily mean the saved time will be used in something like saving the world. It just means less time was spent on shaving than it would have taken if OP did shaving your so called “hard” way. Also your 20m shaved annually seems very weird. There are approximately 365 days in a year and one “easy” way shave, imho, definitely saves more than approx 0.055m compared to a hard way shave if one shaves daily without a miss :-P

eoerl 4y ago

How much of that have you actually benchmarked, time wise ? I think it’s the point of the article, most of our “benchmarking” is actually marketing. To take an example I’ve been using a cast iron pan for years after having used Teflon all my life, cast iron doesn’t take any more time to use (initial seasoning vs. timely replacement, you can even factor that out)

waynesonfire 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
op00to 4y ago
Please don’t decrease SNR with personal attacks like this.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

beloch 4y ago

Modern trackball,flexing, etc. multi-blade razors are expensive, but idiot proof. You can copy one of the Gillette commercials and just mash the thing to your face and make one long stroke through the chemical foam. Bam. Done. If you're happy with this, be happy. Read no further. What this article isn't telling you is that DE razors can be almost as fast, but there's a learning curve. They don't flex, bend, or rotate to the right angle, so you must hold them at the right angle, even when you're going around curves. There's just one blade, so it's easy to apply too much pressure and give yourself razor burn, so you must learn to use minimal pressure. It takes time to learn these skills. Is learning how to shave with a DE correctly and quickly worth saving money? If money is no concern for you, then no. However, there are other benefits. One pass of a five bladed razor is, you guessed it, five blades being dragged across your face, and likely with more pressure than is necessary given how much pressure is required just to make the flexing, rotating razor engage with your face. If skin irritation, ingrown hairs, etc. are a problem for you, then learning how to properly shave with a DE razor can dramatically reduce those problems. However, things may be worse at first while you're learning technique. This is all even more true if you're the sort who suffers from irritation and reuses cartridges too long to save a little money. Dull blades make skin irritation worse. Another thing this article isn't mentioning is shaving soap. Most of us are used to chemical gel's or foams. To be blunt, they all smell awful and feel gross. Again, it takes slightly more time and a little technique must be learned, but traditional shave soap with a badger hair brush, lathered on the face, is something everyone should at least try. There are some awesome smelling soaps out there, and lathering on your face with a good badger brush feels amazing. If you hate shaving, this is a switch that might change your mind. If you hate something, you can spend less time on it, or you can look for ways to make it more enjoyable.

omnicognate 4y ago
> Most of us are used to chemical gel's or foams. Much better than these and shaving soap / brush, is Somerset's Shaving Oil[1]. King of Shaves do a shaving oil too, but it's nowhere near as good. Not affiliated, I just love the stuff. You can use it with shaving soap too, but I just use it on its own. At one point I was worried the company might go under so I bought a big box of it just in case. It's not a great business model as one little bottle lasts months. You only use 3 drops per shave. [1] https://www.somersets.com/(X(1)S(hrhdq4w0o12w1qjoh0myxyml))/ProductBuy.aspx?product_id=4 https://www.somersets.com/(X(1)S(hrhdq4w0o12w1qjoh0myxyml))/...

crossroadsguy 4y ago

I couldn’t avoid cuts even with those gliding-smooth-precision-etc razors so I just use a Philips beard trimmer. As quick as it gets, doesn’t give that weirdly smooth look during the first day after the shave and facial hair remains mostly soft now; during shaving days they would grow to be very hard. No soap, no after whatever splash et al needed. One purchase runs for years literally. I have used them without a mirror. I shaved my head with it once and it was a perfect shave.

eyelidlessness 4y ago

> That's the entire story. That’s the obvious market story but not even the entire story in the post. The lack of available alternatives is a real thing. Several of the examples in the article feel like real losses to me. Another example: last I looked, I can’t even buy a mouse with the form factor and features I want unless I give up and charge batteries. The thing I want to buy existed under many model names over the last 20 years, apparently now I need to start looking second hand. This is true for lots of wired devices, it’s almost impossible to find many of them or a spiritual successor now. I don’t want all of my secondary devices to be battery powered. I’m clearly a minority in the market, or at least untargeted as one. I don’t begrudge anyone their preferences or conveniences, but I definitely miss some of the things I used to be able to find which are now just relics.

ddingus 4y ago
Same. I was pleased to find a simple wired mouse in my Raspi 400 kit. May buy a couple more of the mice by themselves. I do not always like wires, but wireless is kind of a mess. Pairing, charging, quality of info transfer problems... So, I bought a bunch of wired, high quality earbuds, am going to to get some mice too. Those things just work and the quality/consistency of input / output is something I value way more than not having a wire.

hnfong 4y ago

Totally agree with your points. On the other extreme, (and due to my personal interest in practicing knife sharpening), I ended up using a pocket knife and a couple quality sharpening stones as my “razor”. Too lazy to calculate whether the long term cost is worth it, but the setup will probably last me a lifetime. If avoiding waste is really the highest priority (over convenience) then I would argue that sharpening your own razor blade is the only rational way to shave.

ernie24 4y ago

>so I optimize for razors that get the job done faster (more blades, easier to swap a new blade) Razors like G. Mach3 or similar are neither really much faster nor better in any way (I compare them against my $25 "classical" metal razor "Timor Solingen 1322"). The fact that so many people think otherwise is a proof that marketing departments of G. or Edgewell (Wilkinson) did a very good job.