5 ms·

Yes, but I don't see why mice would be so different from humans for this kind of thing.

by ekanes 4y ago

foxyv 4y ago
I can think of quite a few. Just starting from their size and diet. Then moving onto lifespan.
fredley 4y ago
You can freeze mice solid and warm them up in a microwave and they'll come back to life. Not everything that works in a mouse model works in humans.
- warning26 4y ago
  Wait...really? Do you have any links to where I can read more about this?
  - jacobsievers 4y ago
    I think this refers to James Lovelock's work with radar in the 1950s. But it was hamsters, not mice.
    - jimmygrapes 4y ago
      And here I was thinking that the puzzle I'm Day of the Tentacle was just "moon logic"... good to know it had some precedence!
  - kansface 4y ago
    I was curious too, and found this: https://www.damninteresting.com/reanimated-rodents-and-the-meaning-of-life/ https://www.damninteresting.com/reanimated-rodents-and-the-m... Apparently, it was a thing!
- bpodgursky 4y ago
  To be fair, have we REALLY tried this with people?
  - thaumasiotes 4y ago
    Some people are documented as surviving in freezing temperatures for extended periods, yes. This is what you would expect from freezing. It preserves things. The difficulty with freezing is getting back up to normal temperatures safely. (And the creation of ice crystals, which can be very damaging.)
  - TremendousJudge 4y ago
    I think it was tried with larger mammals and it didn't work, which is why the research for humans was dropped. The hope that at some point in the future it may be possible is the entire point of cryonics. It works with severed body parts though.
    - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
      Cryogenics is not about freezing humans, it is about vitrifying them, huge difference.
  - Someone 4y ago
    Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Preservation_and_Resuscitation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Preservation_and_Res...: Emergency Preservation and Resuscitation (EPR) is an experimental medical procedure where an emergency department patient is cooled into suspended animation for an hour to prevent incipient death from ischemia, such as the blood loss following a shooting or stabbing. That page doesn’t say this is a net win or worked well at all, but it’s a difficult line of research. Not only are the first patients almost dead at the start of the process (as is always the case with high-risk of death experimental procedures), but there also is no way to know when a patient will show up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_hypothermic_circulatory_arrest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_hypothermic_circulatory_a... is easier in this respect: Deep hypothermic circulatory arrest (DHCA) is a surgical technique that induces deep medical hypothermia. It involves cooling the body to temperatures between 20 °C (68 °F) to 25 °C (77 °F), and stopping blood circulation and brain function for up to one hour. I think that’s a proven winner for some patients, but only at relatively high temperatures (“Profound hypothermia (< 14 °C) usually isn't used clinically. It is a subject of research in animals and human clinical trials”)
- _Algernon_ 4y ago
  That's purely a size thing iirc. Lot quicker to get enough heat into a mouse to thaw it, than a human. Edit to add an interesting related video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tdiKTSdE9Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tdiKTSdE9Y
  - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
    Then can we freeze human hands/fingers and turn them back to function?
    - _Algernon_ 4y ago
      No idea, but another comment claims it works for severed body parts. I'd assume that freezing an attached bodypart would have complications due to circulation being hindered in non frozen parts of the body, and it would be painful. Don't think a 21st century ethics board is gonna be onboard for doing such an experiment either.
      - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
        people in siberia/artic regularly freeze their fingers, no need to have cobayes. Blocking the circulation in the hand does not make someone die, many people survived loosing an arm for a reason. What must be said though is that while freezing allow for partial body rescuscitation, let's not be fooled. The mice or body part might behave normally, but the body has suffered from a lot of possibly permanent damage (conformational changes, oxidative stress). I expect rescuscitated humans to have a lower quality of life and reduced lifespan, although that's fucking worth it for being rescuscitated!! One reason is that ice has that annoying property of taking more volume than water. This has consequences. However modern cryogenics aims to vitrify water, which is a special kind of ice that does not take more space! What people don't know is that structurally preserving organs AKA cryogenics, is a solved problem. Researchers have done that sucessfully to a pig's brain, preserving 100% of its structure. The current issue is that while we can preserve the body without structural losses, we don't know how to reanimate it because the chemicals they uses become toxic upon reanimation and there is no known way to extract it fast enough. As a reminder, before rescuscitating humans, cryogenics will allow better preservation of blood and organ donations.
- oneeyedpigeon 4y ago
  This article was posted here just 12 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31144130 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31144130 ("The Woman Who Survived the Lowest Body Temperature Ever")

Yes, but I don't see why mice would be so different from humans for this kind of thing.

by ekanes 4y ago

Yes, but I don't see why mice would be so different from humans for this kind of thing.

foxyv 4y ago

I can think of quite a few. Just starting from their size and diet. Then moving onto lifespan.

fredley 4y ago

You can freeze mice solid and warm them up in a microwave and they'll come back to life. Not everything that works in a mouse model works in humans.

warning26 4y ago
Wait...really? Do you have any links to where I can read more about this?
- jacobsievers 4y ago
  I think this refers to James Lovelock's work with radar in the 1950s. But it was hamsters, not mice.
  - jimmygrapes 4y ago
    And here I was thinking that the puzzle I'm Day of the Tentacle was just "moon logic"... good to know it had some precedence!
- kansface 4y ago
  I was curious too, and found this: https://www.damninteresting.com/reanimated-rodents-and-the-meaning-of-life/ https://www.damninteresting.com/reanimated-rodents-and-the-m... Apparently, it was a thing!
bpodgursky 4y ago
To be fair, have we REALLY tried this with people?
- thaumasiotes 4y ago
  Some people are documented as surviving in freezing temperatures for extended periods, yes. This is what you would expect from freezing. It preserves things. The difficulty with freezing is getting back up to normal temperatures safely. (And the creation of ice crystals, which can be very damaging.)
- TremendousJudge 4y ago
  I think it was tried with larger mammals and it didn't work, which is why the research for humans was dropped. The hope that at some point in the future it may be possible is the entire point of cryonics. It works with severed body parts though.
  - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
    Cryogenics is not about freezing humans, it is about vitrifying them, huge difference.
- Someone 4y ago
  Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Preservation_and_Resuscitation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Preservation_and_Res...: Emergency Preservation and Resuscitation (EPR) is an experimental medical procedure where an emergency department patient is cooled into suspended animation for an hour to prevent incipient death from ischemia, such as the blood loss following a shooting or stabbing. That page doesn’t say this is a net win or worked well at all, but it’s a difficult line of research. Not only are the first patients almost dead at the start of the process (as is always the case with high-risk of death experimental procedures), but there also is no way to know when a patient will show up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_hypothermic_circulatory_arrest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_hypothermic_circulatory_a... is easier in this respect: Deep hypothermic circulatory arrest (DHCA) is a surgical technique that induces deep medical hypothermia. It involves cooling the body to temperatures between 20 °C (68 °F) to 25 °C (77 °F), and stopping blood circulation and brain function for up to one hour. I think that’s a proven winner for some patients, but only at relatively high temperatures (“Profound hypothermia (< 14 °C) usually isn't used clinically. It is a subject of research in animals and human clinical trials”)
_Algernon_ 4y ago
That's purely a size thing iirc. Lot quicker to get enough heat into a mouse to thaw it, than a human. Edit to add an interesting related video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tdiKTSdE9Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tdiKTSdE9Y
- SemanticStrengh 4y ago
  Then can we freeze human hands/fingers and turn them back to function?
  - _Algernon_ 4y ago
    No idea, but another comment claims it works for severed body parts. I'd assume that freezing an attached bodypart would have complications due to circulation being hindered in non frozen parts of the body, and it would be painful. Don't think a 21st century ethics board is gonna be onboard for doing such an experiment either.
    - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
      people in siberia/artic regularly freeze their fingers, no need to have cobayes. Blocking the circulation in the hand does not make someone die, many people survived loosing an arm for a reason. What must be said though is that while freezing allow for partial body rescuscitation, let's not be fooled. The mice or body part might behave normally, but the body has suffered from a lot of possibly permanent damage (conformational changes, oxidative stress). I expect rescuscitated humans to have a lower quality of life and reduced lifespan, although that's fucking worth it for being rescuscitated!! One reason is that ice has that annoying property of taking more volume than water. This has consequences. However modern cryogenics aims to vitrify water, which is a special kind of ice that does not take more space! What people don't know is that structurally preserving organs AKA cryogenics, is a solved problem. Researchers have done that sucessfully to a pig's brain, preserving 100% of its structure. The current issue is that while we can preserve the body without structural losses, we don't know how to reanimate it because the chemicals they uses become toxic upon reanimation and there is no known way to extract it fast enough. As a reminder, before rescuscitating humans, cryogenics will allow better preservation of blood and organ donations.
oneeyedpigeon 4y ago
This article was posted here just 12 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31144130 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31144130 ("The Woman Who Survived the Lowest Body Temperature Ever")