5 ms·

> There's so many blog posts saying look, we're so smart Have you read Casey's twitter feed? The man routinely goes into long twitter thread rants about how s

> There's so many blog posts saying look, we're so smart Have you read Casey's twitter feed? The man routinely goes into long twitter thread rants about how stupid everyone else is. His favorite target seems to be...drumroll please...large corporation software teams.

yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
> rants about how stupid everyone else is. > His favorite target seems to be...drumroll please...large corporation software teams. To be fair, that's... not unreasonable. I've thought unkind things about large corporate software teams while I was working at said large corp.
phaistra 5y ago
> rants about how stupid everyone else is. > His favorite target seems to be...drumroll please...large corporation software teams. I missed the part where he is wrong.
- trapnii 5y ago
  the part where "he" is wrong, is the part where he tells everyone that his reference software can be compared to a real terminal. You cannot compare shoes with towels, nor cats with a TV. The tiling renderer "he" wrote as part of the reference software to demo isn't that bad as a product (to some degree), but that piece of software is garbage, as it has zero use. And almost none of the techniques "he" brags about can be applied to a real terminal. I mean, I like being educated. But so far, noone of the internet fanboys "he" has, has so far ever provided a real product out of his reference software. Admitted, some people tried (just look around), but they all failed. I wonder why. Do you know it?
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    > the part where "he" is wrong, is the part where he tells everyone that his reference software can be compared to a real terminal He very clearly states that his implementation is a terminal renderer. > And almost none of the techniques "he" brags about can be applied to a real terminal Elsewhere one of the people from the screenshots says "we implemented the same approach" because these techniques can be and have been applied. Both in Windows Terminal and, as I understand it, in every single modern terminal emulator.
    - trapnii 5y ago
      [flagged]
      - dmitriid 5y ago
        He literally implements VT parsing etc. Edit: Also read this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31285723 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31285723 "We implemented Casey's approach and most modern terminals implement it". You need more proof?
        trapnii 5y ago
        dmitriid 5y ago
        Quoting from the author of the blogpost: "We actually took the same approach Casey suggested... A lot of terminals implement it that way." [1] I guess authors of a lot of terminals are trolling you. From the refterm README: "VT codes for setting colors and cursor positions, as well as strikethrough, underline, blink, reverse video, etc." [2] And, to begin with, Windows Terminal was horrendously slow even without VT codes. Also, for context, [3] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31285723 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31285723 [2] https://github.com/cmuratori/refterm https://github.com/cmuratori/refterm [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31285339 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31285339
        trapnii 5y ago
        [flagged]
        dmitriid 5y ago
        > I am open for being corrected No. No you're not. Because you keep shifting goalposts and ignoring inconvenient truths. First you claimed that "almost none of the techniques "he" brags about can be applied to a real terminal". To which I linked and quoted Windows Terminal team: "We actually took the same approach Casey suggested. A lot of terminals implement it that way." Then you shifted the goalpost to saying "We should distinguish here between renderer and VT terminal backend." To which I replied: he implements VT parsing and rendering. Is it a complete VT parsing and rendering pipeline? No. Does it invalidate his approach? No. And to put this into additional perspective, Windows Terminal was abysmally slow with no VT parsing, and with no color output to begin with. It couldn't handle most of Unicode, wide characters and dozens of other things. And so on. Now it's "sickness", "plain garbage" and other stuff. Tell me, are you perhaps on Windows Terminal team? Because that's a fine if exaggerated example of their behaviour just a year ago. Now they are like "yup, we're doing exactly the same things that Casey is doing". But wait, don't tell me. I'm definitely not going to engage in this useless thread any longer.
  - drdeca 5y ago
    Why is the word “he” in quotes? Are you implying that they’re trnsgnder or something? But you don’t put “his” in quotes, so that probably isn’t why? It is confusing.
bitwize 5y ago
He's not wrong though. Large corp software teams, paradoxically, tend to run stupid even if comprised of smart people.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
Thing about Casey's rants is that he's completely right though. This is obvious to pretty much anyone who isn't being disingenuous about it. And his writing takes on an admittedly aggressive tone because, frankly, we've been dealing with shitty software that keeps getting shittier written by self-aggrandizing people for a decade or so now. He tried being diplomatic in his issue report and he was shit on for it. That happens all the time.

yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago

> rants about how stupid everyone else is. > His favorite target seems to be...drumroll please...large corporation software teams. To be fair, that's... not unreasonable. I've thought unkind things about large corporate software teams while I was working at said large corp.

phaistra 5y ago

> rants about how stupid everyone else is. > His favorite target seems to be...drumroll please...large corporation software teams. I missed the part where he is wrong.

trapnii 5y ago
the part where "he" is wrong, is the part where he tells everyone that his reference software can be compared to a real terminal. You cannot compare shoes with towels, nor cats with a TV. The tiling renderer "he" wrote as part of the reference software to demo isn't that bad as a product (to some degree), but that piece of software is garbage, as it has zero use. And almost none of the techniques "he" brags about can be applied to a real terminal. I mean, I like being educated. But so far, noone of the internet fanboys "he" has, has so far ever provided a real product out of his reference software. Admitted, some people tried (just look around), but they all failed. I wonder why. Do you know it?
- dmitriid 5y ago
  > the part where "he" is wrong, is the part where he tells everyone that his reference software can be compared to a real terminal He very clearly states that his implementation is a terminal renderer. > And almost none of the techniques "he" brags about can be applied to a real terminal Elsewhere one of the people from the screenshots says "we implemented the same approach" because these techniques can be and have been applied. Both in Windows Terminal and, as I understand it, in every single modern terminal emulator.
  - trapnii 5y ago
    [flagged]
    - dmitriid 5y ago
      He literally implements VT parsing etc. Edit: Also read this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31285723 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31285723 "We implemented Casey's approach and most modern terminals implement it". You need more proof?
      - trapnii 5y ago
        dmitriid 5y ago
        Quoting from the author of the blogpost: "We actually took the same approach Casey suggested... A lot of terminals implement it that way." [1] I guess authors of a lot of terminals are trolling you. From the refterm README: "VT codes for setting colors and cursor positions, as well as strikethrough, underline, blink, reverse video, etc." [2] And, to begin with, Windows Terminal was horrendously slow even without VT codes. Also, for context, [3] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31285723 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31285723 [2] https://github.com/cmuratori/refterm https://github.com/cmuratori/refterm [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31285339 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31285339
        trapnii 5y ago
        [flagged]
        dmitriid 5y ago
        > I am open for being corrected No. No you're not. Because you keep shifting goalposts and ignoring inconvenient truths. First you claimed that "almost none of the techniques "he" brags about can be applied to a real terminal". To which I linked and quoted Windows Terminal team: "We actually took the same approach Casey suggested. A lot of terminals implement it that way." Then you shifted the goalpost to saying "We should distinguish here between renderer and VT terminal backend." To which I replied: he implements VT parsing and rendering. Is it a complete VT parsing and rendering pipeline? No. Does it invalidate his approach? No. And to put this into additional perspective, Windows Terminal was abysmally slow with no VT parsing, and with no color output to begin with. It couldn't handle most of Unicode, wide characters and dozens of other things. And so on. Now it's "sickness", "plain garbage" and other stuff. Tell me, are you perhaps on Windows Terminal team? Because that's a fine if exaggerated example of their behaviour just a year ago. Now they are like "yup, we're doing exactly the same things that Casey is doing". But wait, don't tell me. I'm definitely not going to engage in this useless thread any longer.
- drdeca 5y ago
  Why is the word “he” in quotes? Are you implying that they’re trnsgnder or something? But you don’t put “his” in quotes, so that probably isn’t why? It is confusing.

bitwize 5y ago

He's not wrong though. Large corp software teams, paradoxically, tend to run stupid even if comprised of smart people.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

Thing about Casey's rants is that he's completely right though. This is obvious to pretty much anyone who isn't being disingenuous about it. And his writing takes on an admittedly aggressive tone because, frankly, we've been dealing with shitty software that keeps getting shittier written by self-aggrandizing people for a decade or so now. He tried being diplomatic in his issue report and he was shit on for it. That happens all the time.