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I can subscribe to the last sentence more than the rest. French are generally very interested in politics from youngish age, for better or worse (the amount of

I can subscribe to the last sentence more than the rest. French are generally very interested in politics from youngish age, for better or worse (the amount of outright communism supporters there among young anywhere I spoke to is disheartening, especially for somebody like me who went through proper communism and saw first hand how it always fucks up individuals and nations for generations, and consistently fails to deliver on every single promise that looks nice on paper). I attribute this to their naivety, seeing wrong in the world and instinctively going for some direct quick solution, despite proofs that it never worked that way and side effects were nasty. French and some other southern states have really rich social support, even in decades it will be above-average for western world. So french complaining about it going south need to travel the world a bit and get a reality check. There is too much information readily available, and humans for some reason tend to focus much more on negative part, as do media. So if already pre-teens are watching gruesome combat footage, hardcore porn, reading about depressing future prospects re climate and environment, demographic curves, terrorism and so on and on... its hard even on grown ups, and not even kids that should be carelessly running outside without a worry in their head. It can be just few in the group/class, but they will easily 'spoil the rest of the basket'.

BlargMcLarg 5y ago
They support communism because they see the current leading power, unbridled capitalism, also has its downsides. It's a classic case of figuring out consumer desires from what they say. Most of them just want some kind of regulation which keeps greed in check and allows them to be confident in a future of relationships, family, home ownership and security. Surely the success of games like Animal Crossing, Harvest Moon, Sims and and such would showcase how important this is to individuals.
- mmarq 5y ago
  They support communism, like in Italy, because it is customary for teenagers in affluent blocks to do so or to join extreme right wing parties. Half of my friends have been senior members or founders of minuscule communist parties before finishing high school. It has nothing to do with their understanding of capitalism, whatever that is supposed to be.
  - neumann 5y ago
    Communism is not right wing. Maybe a typo, but historically the young on average prefer left leaning idealogies and become more conservative as they get older.
    - mmarq 5y ago
      It’s not a typo, they either join a communist party or a fascist party.
      - reducesuffering 5y ago
        100 year anniversary WW2 era cycle is rearing it's head.
  - engineeringwoke 5y ago
    Because Italy is an elderly care state with a hierarchy that is so rigid it might even impress the Japanese. No wonder everyone young leaves or becomes an extremist.
    - annyeonghada 5y ago
      >Because Italy is an elderly care state with a hierarchy that is so rigid it might even impress the Japanese. This is the best description of my homeland I've ever seen. By reading the Italian news one would think the main enemy of the Italian State are young people that are constantly berated, ridiculed and forced to keep hearing how lazy they are.
      - mmarq 5y ago
        If I get stabbed in Italy the newspaper would title “A 34 year old boy has been stabbed in the park”, if a 18 year old get stabbed in the UK the newspaper would title “A 18 year old man has been…”
        5y ago
pjerem 5y ago
> French and some other southern states have really rich social support, even in decades it will be above-average for western world. So french complaining about it going south need to travel the world a bit and get a reality check. No. We are just not naive and we know that all of our social support comes from the WWII aftermath, thanks to communist politics. This implies that we'll probably not have anything more than what we have now and we know it. Most of the french don't want anything more, but we will absolutely fight against every aggression against our social security net because we are really confident that anything we lost is lost basically forever.
bratwurst3000 5y ago
You have to differentiates between French Socialist and do communists of the east. French Socialism was very successful in the 70s and 80s. The reason France is so successful today is because of the communist regime in the 70s and 80s.
- spaniard89277 5y ago
  wa? There has neven been a communist regime in France.
- virtualritz 5y ago
  Why is this being downvoted? This hits the nail on the head and is equally true for Germany btw. I grew up in social market capitalism in the latter country in the 70s & 80s. TLDR; it works.
  - refurb 5y ago
    To paraphrase Margaret Thatcher “Socialism works great until you run out of other people’s money”. And the ironic part is when the people asking to maintain social programs complain too much attention is paid to economic growth - the very source of what pays for those programs. The truth is as economies stagnate and the demographic shift happens, Western Europe will have no choice but to cut back programs. You cant maintain the same system when you go from 1 worker and we retired to 1 worker and 2 retired.
    - virtualritz 5y ago
      What exactly is your point? Socialist capitalism[1] is mainly about making sure the wealth and opportunity gap between members of a society doesn't become a 'canyon'. We're talking mainly legislation here. What you're seemingly talking about is how a government is managing pensions when faced with an aging population? Quoting Thatcher in this context is hilarious to someone like me who lived & worked in the UK. There is a reason continental Europeans jokingly often call the that island the 'last 3rd world country in Europe'. ;) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy Edit: missing link
GuB-42 5y ago
> French are generally very interested in politics from youngish age, for better or worse (the amount of outright communism supporters there among young anywhere I spoke to is disheartening I think it is normal and even desirable for young people to be interested in extremist politics. Communism but also anarchy, dictatorships, etc... Modern day "free market" democracies are really a "least bad" system, there are many things wrong with them, things that communism or why not a ruling king can address. In practice, most people discover soon enough that it doesn't work, but to go to that conclusion, you have to at least consider it, and it is better to do that when you are still young and not involved in actual politics. Also, being able to consider other systems is a sign of a well functioning free country. If any idea other than "democracy is the best" is being suppressed, then it is not really a democracy.
- nradov 5y ago
  Why is it better to consider obvious bullshit when you can just read a few history books to find out what doesn't work?
  - GuB-42 5y ago
    It may be bullshit, but certainly not obvious bullshit. Communism is a real solution to a real problem, thousands of people fought for that. It didn't work out in the end, but if you think it is obvious then you probably didn't think about it enough. History books? Let's look at the French Revolution, often credited with so many great things. The period following it is called "the terror", you can't get more explicit. Anyone reading just that part would want to bring back monarchy, and that's actually what happened. But anyways, for many young people, me included, history books are either stuff to memorize for the test, or something that reads like The Lord of the Rings, but with slightly less magic. It takes some experience to actually understand what's behind history books, and considering "obvious bullshit" as you call it is the kind of experience that get people to better appreciate history books. At least the ones that are not an excuse for propaganda.
    - nradov 5y ago

BlargMcLarg 5y ago

They support communism because they see the current leading power, unbridled capitalism, also has its downsides. It's a classic case of figuring out consumer desires from what they say. Most of them just want some kind of regulation which keeps greed in check and allows them to be confident in a future of relationships, family, home ownership and security. Surely the success of games like Animal Crossing, Harvest Moon, Sims and and such would showcase how important this is to individuals.

mmarq 5y ago
They support communism, like in Italy, because it is customary for teenagers in affluent blocks to do so or to join extreme right wing parties. Half of my friends have been senior members or founders of minuscule communist parties before finishing high school. It has nothing to do with their understanding of capitalism, whatever that is supposed to be.
- neumann 5y ago
  Communism is not right wing. Maybe a typo, but historically the young on average prefer left leaning idealogies and become more conservative as they get older.
  - mmarq 5y ago
    It’s not a typo, they either join a communist party or a fascist party.
    - reducesuffering 5y ago
      100 year anniversary WW2 era cycle is rearing it's head.
- engineeringwoke 5y ago
  Because Italy is an elderly care state with a hierarchy that is so rigid it might even impress the Japanese. No wonder everyone young leaves or becomes an extremist.
  - annyeonghada 5y ago
    >Because Italy is an elderly care state with a hierarchy that is so rigid it might even impress the Japanese. This is the best description of my homeland I've ever seen. By reading the Italian news one would think the main enemy of the Italian State are young people that are constantly berated, ridiculed and forced to keep hearing how lazy they are.
    - mmarq 5y ago
      If I get stabbed in Italy the newspaper would title “A 34 year old boy has been stabbed in the park”, if a 18 year old get stabbed in the UK the newspaper would title “A 18 year old man has been…”
      - 5y ago

pjerem 5y ago

> French and some other southern states have really rich social support, even in decades it will be above-average for western world. So french complaining about it going south need to travel the world a bit and get a reality check. No. We are just not naive and we know that all of our social support comes from the WWII aftermath, thanks to communist politics. This implies that we'll probably not have anything more than what we have now and we know it. Most of the french don't want anything more, but we will absolutely fight against every aggression against our social security net because we are really confident that anything we lost is lost basically forever.

bratwurst3000 5y ago

You have to differentiates between French Socialist and do communists of the east. French Socialism was very successful in the 70s and 80s. The reason France is so successful today is because of the communist regime in the 70s and 80s.

spaniard89277 5y ago
wa? There has neven been a communist regime in France.
virtualritz 5y ago
Why is this being downvoted? This hits the nail on the head and is equally true for Germany btw. I grew up in social market capitalism in the latter country in the 70s & 80s. TLDR; it works.
- refurb 5y ago
  To paraphrase Margaret Thatcher “Socialism works great until you run out of other people’s money”. And the ironic part is when the people asking to maintain social programs complain too much attention is paid to economic growth - the very source of what pays for those programs. The truth is as economies stagnate and the demographic shift happens, Western Europe will have no choice but to cut back programs. You cant maintain the same system when you go from 1 worker and we retired to 1 worker and 2 retired.
  - virtualritz 5y ago
    What exactly is your point? Socialist capitalism[1] is mainly about making sure the wealth and opportunity gap between members of a society doesn't become a 'canyon'. We're talking mainly legislation here. What you're seemingly talking about is how a government is managing pensions when faced with an aging population? Quoting Thatcher in this context is hilarious to someone like me who lived & worked in the UK. There is a reason continental Europeans jokingly often call the that island the 'last 3rd world country in Europe'. ;) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy Edit: missing link

GuB-42 5y ago

> French are generally very interested in politics from youngish age, for better or worse (the amount of outright communism supporters there among young anywhere I spoke to is disheartening I think it is normal and even desirable for young people to be interested in extremist politics. Communism but also anarchy, dictatorships, etc... Modern day "free market" democracies are really a "least bad" system, there are many things wrong with them, things that communism or why not a ruling king can address. In practice, most people discover soon enough that it doesn't work, but to go to that conclusion, you have to at least consider it, and it is better to do that when you are still young and not involved in actual politics. Also, being able to consider other systems is a sign of a well functioning free country. If any idea other than "democracy is the best" is being suppressed, then it is not really a democracy.

nradov 5y ago
Why is it better to consider obvious bullshit when you can just read a few history books to find out what doesn't work?
- GuB-42 5y ago
  It may be bullshit, but certainly not obvious bullshit. Communism is a real solution to a real problem, thousands of people fought for that. It didn't work out in the end, but if you think it is obvious then you probably didn't think about it enough. History books? Let's look at the French Revolution, often credited with so many great things. The period following it is called "the terror", you can't get more explicit. Anyone reading just that part would want to bring back monarchy, and that's actually what happened. But anyways, for many young people, me included, history books are either stuff to memorize for the test, or something that reads like The Lord of the Rings, but with slightly less magic. It takes some experience to actually understand what's behind history books, and considering "obvious bullshit" as you call it is the kind of experience that get people to better appreciate history books. At least the ones that are not an excuse for propaganda.
  - nradov 5y ago