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I wish I could just mail Google a hundred dollar check and a note that says "please don't treat me like a goddamn mouth-breather" and get a permanent "I'm a big

I wish I could just mail Google a hundred dollar check and a note that says "please don't treat me like a goddamn mouth-breather" and get a permanent "I'm a big boy who wipes my own ass and everything" code for unlocking bootloader and giving root. Sometimes I think it would hurt less to tear the bandage off quick and switch to iOS rather than watching Android slowly get beaten into the Apple mould.

ev1 5y ago
This exists, just use Pixel?
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  I don't think Pixels let you keep all the functionality when you unlock the bootloader. Am I wrong?
  - bpye 5y ago
    You might be thinking of SafetyNet. I'm not sure if there are any reliable ways to get root without tripping SafetyNet, but last I knew you could - on a Pixel - flash a different ROM and then relock the bootloader, and you'd be fine. Things may have changed in the last few years though.
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      You still fail SafetyNet if you do that.
      - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
        What apps are actually enforcing SafetyNet?
        diggernet 4y ago
        I wonder if would it be possible for something like εxodus to detect this when they scan an app. I'd love to see a SafetyNet flag in their scan reports.
        josephcsible 4y ago
        Snapchat, Netflix, Pokemon Go, Super Mario Run, Android Pay, McDonald's, and most bank apps immediately come to mind.
        bpye 4y ago
        Most of those make sense but why McDonalds?
        josephcsible 4y ago
        None of them make sense. Remember that if it were really about security, then phones vulnerable to Dirty Pipe wouldn't pass, but they do. It's just about control.
        ev1 4y ago
        "Coupon fraud"
        bpye 4y ago
        It was always my banking apps that caused me problems.
  - ev1 5y ago
    You retain whatever functionality you want when you unlock the bootloader, or relock it after flashing. Apps can choose to not service you if they detect modifications though.
    - selfhoster11 5y ago
      You're being obtuse. An application choosing not to service you definitely counts as losing functionality.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      When the hardware was painstakingly designed so that I can't tell those applications "no modifications here", that's very much a manufacturer and OS problem.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    You're not wrong. Android Pay will stop working, and so will a bunch of third-party apps.
    - colordrops 5y ago
      You can use Magisk + Zygisk/DenyList to get these apps working on a rooted device.
      - josephcsible 5y ago
        The trick Magisk modules can use to hide the unlocked bootloader only works as long as Google still supports legacy devices that didn't do hardware attestation of the bootloader being locked. As soon as enough time passes that they flip that switch on their end, that will totally break forever. Also, even today, a few apps aren't fooled by that solution. Try the McDonald's app for example.
        colordrops 5y ago
        If Google decides to corner everyone it will only empower them to put energy into non-google ecosystems. It would be a big mistake IMHO for google to cut this off.
- causality0 4y ago
  Pixels have their own issues. For example, Google at some point decided giving users HDMI-out was cannibalizing their Chromecast sales and haven't offered it on their phones since. They tend not to play nice with combo 3.5mm/charging adapters, and often have bizarre hardware and software issues that only crop up a few months after launch. Their new SoC is essentially a rebadged Exynos, and as a consequence it has trash GPU drivers that gimp gaming console emulation to an astonishing degree. Pixel users can't crop the screen to hide the camera cutout so I hope you enjoy watching videos with the world's biggest dead pixel on one side of the screen.
selfhoster11 5y ago
FWIW, I'm tearing the bandage right off for my next phone. If my phone won't treat me like a big boy, I might as well switch to iOS and get a marginally better user experience.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  But at least with Android, the freedom is still there and is just quite hidden and inconvenient. With Apple you don't have it at all.
- _huayra_ 5y ago
  What about the user experience is better? I'm weighing this option myself now, but honestly between an iOS device and a mid-tier Android phone, it's hard to tell the difference. Email / chat apps / web browsing is more or less the same. Certainly the amount of telemetry collected by Android is markedly higher [0], but that's not so much of a UX difference. [0] https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf
  - selfhoster11 5y ago
    I don't know how much of a difference there really is, but it surely cannot be worse than my current phone. It's budget (low-mid tier, and it shows), the camera is far from good, and my OEM's variant of Android has annoying additions that aren't allowed to be disabled. I'm hoping that iOS will be at least a slightly calmer experience, and that the better hardware will do its part to annoy me less even if I'm buying used.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - sm_1024 5y ago
      This is an interesting take. I'd assume iOS could just be considered an OEM variant of a mobile OS. I switched to samsung, and its UX is pretty consistent. > my OEM's variant of Android has annoying additions that aren't allowed to be disabled. I'm hoping that iOS will be at least a slightly calmer experience Would android's additions still seem like annoyance if stock (and every variant) included those additions? tbf, I think iOS is a pretty good OS (like most modern OSes).
kllrnohj 4y ago
You're mad that you have to jump through a hoop to do something dangerous. So mad, that you're going to just... wrap yourself in bubble wrap & give up all control? Switching to iOS is sending the literal opposite message that you want. It's telling the industry "I can't be trusted & I want no control over my devices."

ev1 5y ago

This exists, just use Pixel?

Dylan16807 5y ago
I don't think Pixels let you keep all the functionality when you unlock the bootloader. Am I wrong?
- bpye 5y ago
  You might be thinking of SafetyNet. I'm not sure if there are any reliable ways to get root without tripping SafetyNet, but last I knew you could - on a Pixel - flash a different ROM and then relock the bootloader, and you'd be fine. Things may have changed in the last few years though.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    You still fail SafetyNet if you do that.
    - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
      What apps are actually enforcing SafetyNet?
      - diggernet 4y ago
        I wonder if would it be possible for something like εxodus to detect this when they scan an app. I'd love to see a SafetyNet flag in their scan reports.
      - josephcsible 4y ago
        Snapchat, Netflix, Pokemon Go, Super Mario Run, Android Pay, McDonald's, and most bank apps immediately come to mind.
        bpye 4y ago
        Most of those make sense but why McDonalds?
        josephcsible 4y ago
        None of them make sense. Remember that if it were really about security, then phones vulnerable to Dirty Pipe wouldn't pass, but they do. It's just about control.
        ev1 4y ago
        "Coupon fraud"
      - bpye 4y ago
        It was always my banking apps that caused me problems.
- ev1 5y ago
  You retain whatever functionality you want when you unlock the bootloader, or relock it after flashing. Apps can choose to not service you if they detect modifications though.
  - selfhoster11 5y ago
    You're being obtuse. An application choosing not to service you definitely counts as losing functionality.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    When the hardware was painstakingly designed so that I can't tell those applications "no modifications here", that's very much a manufacturer and OS problem.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  You're not wrong. Android Pay will stop working, and so will a bunch of third-party apps.
  - colordrops 5y ago
    You can use Magisk + Zygisk/DenyList to get these apps working on a rooted device.
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      The trick Magisk modules can use to hide the unlocked bootloader only works as long as Google still supports legacy devices that didn't do hardware attestation of the bootloader being locked. As soon as enough time passes that they flip that switch on their end, that will totally break forever. Also, even today, a few apps aren't fooled by that solution. Try the McDonald's app for example.
      - colordrops 5y ago
        If Google decides to corner everyone it will only empower them to put energy into non-google ecosystems. It would be a big mistake IMHO for google to cut this off.
causality0 4y ago
Pixels have their own issues. For example, Google at some point decided giving users HDMI-out was cannibalizing their Chromecast sales and haven't offered it on their phones since. They tend not to play nice with combo 3.5mm/charging adapters, and often have bizarre hardware and software issues that only crop up a few months after launch. Their new SoC is essentially a rebadged Exynos, and as a consequence it has trash GPU drivers that gimp gaming console emulation to an astonishing degree. Pixel users can't crop the screen to hide the camera cutout so I hope you enjoy watching videos with the world's biggest dead pixel on one side of the screen.

selfhoster11 5y ago

FWIW, I'm tearing the bandage right off for my next phone. If my phone won't treat me like a big boy, I might as well switch to iOS and get a marginally better user experience.

josephcsible 5y ago
But at least with Android, the freedom is still there and is just quite hidden and inconvenient. With Apple you don't have it at all.
_huayra_ 5y ago
What about the user experience is better? I'm weighing this option myself now, but honestly between an iOS device and a mid-tier Android phone, it's hard to tell the difference. Email / chat apps / web browsing is more or less the same. Certainly the amount of telemetry collected by Android is markedly higher [0], but that's not so much of a UX difference. [0] https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  I don't know how much of a difference there really is, but it surely cannot be worse than my current phone. It's budget (low-mid tier, and it shows), the camera is far from good, and my OEM's variant of Android has annoying additions that aren't allowed to be disabled. I'm hoping that iOS will be at least a slightly calmer experience, and that the better hardware will do its part to annoy me less even if I'm buying used.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - sm_1024 5y ago
    This is an interesting take. I'd assume iOS could just be considered an OEM variant of a mobile OS. I switched to samsung, and its UX is pretty consistent. > my OEM's variant of Android has annoying additions that aren't allowed to be disabled. I'm hoping that iOS will be at least a slightly calmer experience Would android's additions still seem like annoyance if stock (and every variant) included those additions? tbf, I think iOS is a pretty good OS (like most modern OSes).

kllrnohj 4y ago

You're mad that you have to jump through a hoop to do something dangerous. So mad, that you're going to just... wrap yourself in bubble wrap & give up all control? Switching to iOS is sending the literal opposite message that you want. It's telling the industry "I can't be trusted & I want no control over my devices."