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I haven't really felt like 1Password's product materially strayed from the original mission. If anything, I'm even more delighted with the team functionality, s

I haven't really felt like 1Password's product materially strayed from the original mission. If anything, I'm even more delighted with the team functionality, shared vaults, quick keyboard access in 1Password 8, etc. I wouldn't put them in the Dropbox bucket. Also, I think the value Tailscale provides is fairly unique and far from obviously a platform feature like file storage and perhaps even password management.

xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
Indeed, 1Password is practically a utility at this point, as far as I'm concerned. I really like the direction they're heading and they're solving some pretty tricky problems without compromising on security, predominantly in the enterprise domain. The experience is the same regardless of whether you're an enterprise user or a personal or family user. It's polished enough that my grandma can use it.
- alberth 4y ago
  > I really like the direction [1Password] is heading I thought customers were complainingly loudly against their new direction of making 1Password an Electron app. Is that not the case? Note: I'm not a 1Password customer.
  - throwaway894345 4y ago
    I heard some people complaining a bit for a moment when they made the transition, but that happens anytime anyone changes anything and doubly so when that change is Electron. But that faded quickly.
    - mmcclure 4y ago
      I...don't think it's faded. I could totally be wrong here, but I don't think they'd actually made a transition yet; the complaining you're talking about was over the 1Password 8 beta. That actually just went GA this week, and people were still upset. I get why they're doing it (or, at least, think I do), and I'm not angry enough to go get angry on Twitter, but I am going to avoid the upgrade for as long as I can. That's kind of a bummer to get there with a product you've historically really liked.
      - throwaway894345 4y ago
        Honestly I haven't noticed and I use 1Password on all of my devices every day. I heard some grumblings about 1Password changing to electron months ago and just assumed that they already made the transition. In whatever case, I haven't heard a peep until this thread. I don't like electron in theory and the industry should collectively come up with a solution that incentivizes app developers away from electron rather than hoping they swim against the current of incentive.
        skoskie 4y ago
        You might double check which version you’re on. Might still be on v7. > the industry should collectively come up with a solution that incentivizes app developers away from electron rather than hoping they swim against the current of incentive. They have the financial resources to build it in ~Rust but still chose electron. It’s a mind boggling decision.
        throwaway894345 4y ago
        > They have the financial resources to build it in ~Rust but still chose electron. It’s a mind boggling decision. Respectfully, I think you may misunderstand the company’s mission.
  - dimgl 4y ago
    I didn't even notice... 1Password is great. There are some minor issues here and there but it always feels like they very quickly patch it up.
  - jchw 4y ago
    Modern 1password using Electron is sad in some respects, but hardly surprising. Even people who use Electron hate Electron. The real differentiating factor is those who understand why.
  - sleepybrett 4y ago
    Removing the ability to use it in a non-saas (local vaults, vaults shared by other syncing solutions) capacity is what drove the final nail into the 1password coffin for me. I can't trust that they don't hold master keys to all the vaults on their saas offerings. The swap from native to electron on macos was hugely disappointing but something I could have probably lived with if they hadn't gone full saas no alternative.
    - SparkyMcUnicorn 4y ago
      > I can't trust that they don't hold master keys to all the vaults on their saas offerings. So you think they could be lying about their fundamental selling point, and hiding it in all of their audits? Personally, I'd trust them more than Apple/Google/etc. https://support.1password.com/1password-security/ https://support.1password.com/1password-security/ https://1passwordstatic.com/files/security/1password-white-paper.pdf https://1passwordstatic.com/files/security/1password-white-p... https://support.1password.com/security-assessments/ https://support.1password.com/security-assessments/
    - Groxx 4y ago
      Yep, ramming online vaults down everyone's throat is also what killed it for me. Since then I've gone from a massive supporter to recommending everyone look elsewhere. Their online security-related UX is also a freaking nightmare. The desktop and mobile apps are excellent and still clearly the best, but yikes, their password plus secret uuid plus device identity is awful. I know multiple people who permanently lost everything thanks to that (remember, no local backups any more! That's what cloud storage almost always guarantees!), and they now push others away too. I'm now a (relatively) happy KeePass user.
  - davidwparker 4y ago
    Maybe technical customers who knew it were Electron. I knew, and don't really care. My wife doesn't even know what Electron is- everything is just another app to her.
  - st3fan 4y ago
    > I thought customers were complainingly loudly against ... No, you confuse "customers" with a vocal minority.
  - skinnymuch 4y ago
    A small vocal minority. The company’s two relatively recent fund raises are massive.
  - pid-1 4y ago
    IMO it's still the best pw manager by a fair margin.
- throwaway894345 4y ago
  Fully agree. I'm a very happy 1Password customer, and I rarely praise software.
- MrStonedOne 4y ago
  1password took away the ability to have offline vaults, so i don't know how you can say they didn't compromised on security, since they cut off the most secure way you can store your vault chasing the solving of the tricky problem of monetizing a key value store.
nikanj 4y ago
It's been [0] days since the last time 1Password randomly bombarded me with a "Upgrade to 1Password subscription today" dialog. Not talking about the banner in the corner of the app. this was a dialog that had to specifically be dismissed
_ktx2 4y ago
1Password went from being buy once upgrade forever to SaaS. A lot of folks bought back when that was the package (and business model) so it's viewed relatively negatively here from some folks. I don't blame them, but also, I think 1Password is a success. I just don't think they'd have been viable under their original business model.
- jjeaff 4y ago
  But is "buy once, upgrade forever" really a viable long term business model?
  - samhw 4y ago
    I dunno, but you ought to figure it out (for your business) before you make that offer!
    - skinnymuch 4y ago
      Why? 1PW is succeeding. They didn’t do some huge moral quandary either that would make stopping the one time buying product a moral failing. People like the first commenter and myself have used 1PW for many years too and are fine with what has gone down. Vs a clear moral screw up like the big tech companies colluding to not hire one another’s employees.
      - samhw 4y ago
        If they said "buy once, get upgrades forever" and didn't provide that, then yeah, that's definitely a very plain example of immoral dealing. The future service is exactly what the purchasers were buying - not a nice-to-have add-on.
  - deadbunny 4y ago
    Seemed to work for a lot software before SaaS ate the world. But who wants viable when you can bleed you customers for 10-1000x the would have paid for the software once? /s
- 4y ago
prepend 4y ago
I think they changed from their mission to make password management easy and secure to extracting service fees forever. I don’t necessarily blame them but think their decision was pushed along by the need for big money. For example, I think they’d still be able to do the pay once model if they abstracted they storage to work with Dropbox/icloud/OneDrive/whatever. There’s really no value add as a user for a monthly fee. Although lots of people don’t mind. I’d rather not pay for something as essential and simple as a synchronized, encrypted data blob. I literally replaced it with a Google doc and cutting and pasting more. A filter over Google docs does not require a monthly fee. I have this problem with lots of SaaS products that could be software if they didn’t want or need lots of money.
- nicknow 4y ago
  > For example, I think they’d still be able to do the pay once model if they abstracted they storage to work with Dropbox/icloud/OneDrive/whatever. I get why they don't but I often wish more SaaS companies had a bring your own computer & storage model. It doesn't make sense for 95% of customers and the 5% of us who might like it and have the tech chops to use it would just complain about having to pay more because we are outliers. But I wish it was offered!
  - prepend 4y ago
    It makes sense because they make less money that way. It seems like they have some cognitive dissonance where they try to explain their SaaS fee because of the “features” that require SaaS. If they supported bring your own storage then that cuts out the main reason for the SaaS fees. Also sad because bring your own storage is more secure to me than trusting a company with all of my passwords. So they are reducing security and increasing price.
biohax2015 4y ago
1Password is a phenomenal product. Idk what HN's obsession with ragging on it is about.
girvo 4y ago
I found 1Passwords UI/UX and development tooling choices... not ideal, as of 1P v8. I miss the native apps, and the latest iOS app/integration had far too many bugs initially (I just use autofill alone now, on my iPhone. Not ideal, but good enough)

xyzzy_plugh 4y ago

Indeed, 1Password is practically a utility at this point, as far as I'm concerned. I really like the direction they're heading and they're solving some pretty tricky problems without compromising on security, predominantly in the enterprise domain. The experience is the same regardless of whether you're an enterprise user or a personal or family user. It's polished enough that my grandma can use it.

alberth 4y ago
> I really like the direction [1Password] is heading I thought customers were complainingly loudly against their new direction of making 1Password an Electron app. Is that not the case? Note: I'm not a 1Password customer.
- throwaway894345 4y ago
  I heard some people complaining a bit for a moment when they made the transition, but that happens anytime anyone changes anything and doubly so when that change is Electron. But that faded quickly.
  - mmcclure 4y ago
    I...don't think it's faded. I could totally be wrong here, but I don't think they'd actually made a transition yet; the complaining you're talking about was over the 1Password 8 beta. That actually just went GA this week, and people were still upset. I get why they're doing it (or, at least, think I do), and I'm not angry enough to go get angry on Twitter, but I am going to avoid the upgrade for as long as I can. That's kind of a bummer to get there with a product you've historically really liked.
    - throwaway894345 4y ago
      Honestly I haven't noticed and I use 1Password on all of my devices every day. I heard some grumblings about 1Password changing to electron months ago and just assumed that they already made the transition. In whatever case, I haven't heard a peep until this thread. I don't like electron in theory and the industry should collectively come up with a solution that incentivizes app developers away from electron rather than hoping they swim against the current of incentive.
      - skoskie 4y ago
        You might double check which version you’re on. Might still be on v7. > the industry should collectively come up with a solution that incentivizes app developers away from electron rather than hoping they swim against the current of incentive. They have the financial resources to build it in ~Rust but still chose electron. It’s a mind boggling decision.
        throwaway894345 4y ago
        > They have the financial resources to build it in ~Rust but still chose electron. It’s a mind boggling decision. Respectfully, I think you may misunderstand the company’s mission.
- dimgl 4y ago
  I didn't even notice... 1Password is great. There are some minor issues here and there but it always feels like they very quickly patch it up.
- jchw 4y ago
  Modern 1password using Electron is sad in some respects, but hardly surprising. Even people who use Electron hate Electron. The real differentiating factor is those who understand why.
- sleepybrett 4y ago
  Removing the ability to use it in a non-saas (local vaults, vaults shared by other syncing solutions) capacity is what drove the final nail into the 1password coffin for me. I can't trust that they don't hold master keys to all the vaults on their saas offerings. The swap from native to electron on macos was hugely disappointing but something I could have probably lived with if they hadn't gone full saas no alternative.
  - SparkyMcUnicorn 4y ago
    > I can't trust that they don't hold master keys to all the vaults on their saas offerings. So you think they could be lying about their fundamental selling point, and hiding it in all of their audits? Personally, I'd trust them more than Apple/Google/etc. https://support.1password.com/1password-security/ https://support.1password.com/1password-security/ https://1passwordstatic.com/files/security/1password-white-paper.pdf https://1passwordstatic.com/files/security/1password-white-p... https://support.1password.com/security-assessments/ https://support.1password.com/security-assessments/
  - Groxx 4y ago
    Yep, ramming online vaults down everyone's throat is also what killed it for me. Since then I've gone from a massive supporter to recommending everyone look elsewhere. Their online security-related UX is also a freaking nightmare. The desktop and mobile apps are excellent and still clearly the best, but yikes, their password plus secret uuid plus device identity is awful. I know multiple people who permanently lost everything thanks to that (remember, no local backups any more! That's what cloud storage almost always guarantees!), and they now push others away too. I'm now a (relatively) happy KeePass user.
- davidwparker 4y ago
  Maybe technical customers who knew it were Electron. I knew, and don't really care. My wife doesn't even know what Electron is- everything is just another app to her.
- st3fan 4y ago
  > I thought customers were complainingly loudly against ... No, you confuse "customers" with a vocal minority.
- skinnymuch 4y ago
  A small vocal minority. The company’s two relatively recent fund raises are massive.
- pid-1 4y ago
  IMO it's still the best pw manager by a fair margin.
throwaway894345 4y ago
Fully agree. I'm a very happy 1Password customer, and I rarely praise software.
MrStonedOne 4y ago
1password took away the ability to have offline vaults, so i don't know how you can say they didn't compromised on security, since they cut off the most secure way you can store your vault chasing the solving of the tricky problem of monetizing a key value store.

nikanj 4y ago

It's been [0] days since the last time 1Password randomly bombarded me with a "Upgrade to 1Password subscription today" dialog. Not talking about the banner in the corner of the app. this was a dialog that had to specifically be dismissed

_ktx2 4y ago

1Password went from being buy once upgrade forever to SaaS. A lot of folks bought back when that was the package (and business model) so it's viewed relatively negatively here from some folks. I don't blame them, but also, I think 1Password is a success. I just don't think they'd have been viable under their original business model.

jjeaff 4y ago
But is "buy once, upgrade forever" really a viable long term business model?
- samhw 4y ago
  I dunno, but you ought to figure it out (for your business) before you make that offer!
  - skinnymuch 4y ago
    Why? 1PW is succeeding. They didn’t do some huge moral quandary either that would make stopping the one time buying product a moral failing. People like the first commenter and myself have used 1PW for many years too and are fine with what has gone down. Vs a clear moral screw up like the big tech companies colluding to not hire one another’s employees.
    - samhw 4y ago
      If they said "buy once, get upgrades forever" and didn't provide that, then yeah, that's definitely a very plain example of immoral dealing. The future service is exactly what the purchasers were buying - not a nice-to-have add-on.
- deadbunny 4y ago
  Seemed to work for a lot software before SaaS ate the world. But who wants viable when you can bleed you customers for 10-1000x the would have paid for the software once? /s
4y ago

prepend 4y ago

I think they changed from their mission to make password management easy and secure to extracting service fees forever. I don’t necessarily blame them but think their decision was pushed along by the need for big money. For example, I think they’d still be able to do the pay once model if they abstracted they storage to work with Dropbox/icloud/OneDrive/whatever. There’s really no value add as a user for a monthly fee. Although lots of people don’t mind. I’d rather not pay for something as essential and simple as a synchronized, encrypted data blob. I literally replaced it with a Google doc and cutting and pasting more. A filter over Google docs does not require a monthly fee. I have this problem with lots of SaaS products that could be software if they didn’t want or need lots of money.

nicknow 4y ago
> For example, I think they’d still be able to do the pay once model if they abstracted they storage to work with Dropbox/icloud/OneDrive/whatever. I get why they don't but I often wish more SaaS companies had a bring your own computer & storage model. It doesn't make sense for 95% of customers and the 5% of us who might like it and have the tech chops to use it would just complain about having to pay more because we are outliers. But I wish it was offered!
- prepend 4y ago
  It makes sense because they make less money that way. It seems like they have some cognitive dissonance where they try to explain their SaaS fee because of the “features” that require SaaS. If they supported bring your own storage then that cuts out the main reason for the SaaS fees. Also sad because bring your own storage is more secure to me than trusting a company with all of my passwords. So they are reducing security and increasing price.

biohax2015 4y ago

1Password is a phenomenal product. Idk what HN's obsession with ragging on it is about.

girvo 4y ago

I found 1Passwords UI/UX and development tooling choices... not ideal, as of 1P v8. I miss the native apps, and the latest iOS app/integration had far too many bugs initially (I just use autofill alone now, on my iPhone. Not ideal, but good enough)