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> The CDC wants a say in how people live their lives and thinks they know better than individuals about risk tolerance and decisions. Their charter is disease

> The CDC wants a say in how people live their lives and thinks they know better than individuals about risk tolerance and decisions. Their charter is disease control. How you 'live your life' is orthogonal to that mission - they're responsible for stopping you from infecting other people with communicable diseases. That is also your own responsibility, and just because responsibilities aren't always things you want to do doesn't mean they're oppression.

jatone 5y ago
> How you 'live your life' is orthogonal to that mission orthogonal does not mean what you think it means given your usage. orthogonal means its entirely unrelated. but the fact is disease control and being able to make personal choices w/ respect to living your life can be in direct conflict means its not orthogonal. apologies for this correction orthogonal is just one of my favorite words. =)
- Eldt 5y ago
  It was used correctly, you've just mistaken the point made about the CDC and how they view their mission
  - leereeves 5y ago
    It's definitely not orthogonal to how you live your life; their very purpose is to limit how you live your life in order to prevent/reduce behaviors that spread disease. For example, they issue quarantine orders.[1] People understand that is their mission. Some find it scary. Everyone has a different threshold at which they start to object to the CDC overriding people's freedom in the pursuit of disease control, but everyone will object at some point. For example, would you accept a Shanghai-style lockdown? 1: https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/Public-Health-Order_Generic_FINAL_02-13-2020-p.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/Public-Health-Order_Gener...
    - tragictrash 5y ago
      It feels like your living in some strange alternate reality. What are you talking about? How is the CDC 'overriding freedom'? They collect data and make recommendations. The rest of the world is out here waiting for you, please wake up. We need everyone to make this work.
      - leereeves 5y ago
        > What are you talking about? The CDC's mission is fundamentally the same as the mission of the Chinese disease control agency. The difference is how that mission is balanced against people's freedom to live their lives. Please don't misunderstand; that doesn't mean that I oppose everything they do. Everything they do limits freedom, but sometimes that is necessary.
        tragictrash 5y ago
        leereeves 5y ago
        > THEY MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS Ahh, I see where the confusion is. They actually have authority to issue legally binding orders. "To help prevent the spread of COVID-19 and help our country cope during the pandemic, CDC has occasionally issued legally binding orders and regulations." https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cdcresponse/laws-regulations.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cdcresponse/laws-r... Not all such orders are listed on that page. For example, "CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky today signed an order determining the evictions of tenants for failure to make rent or housing payments could be detrimental to public health control measures". https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0803-cdc-eviction-order.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0803-cdc-eviction-o...
        nradov 5y ago
        Which specific limits on freedom are necessary? What are the criteria for determining necessity?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - jatone 5y ago
    no, its not used correctly. If i've misunderstood the point being communicated its because the original comment isn't using words correctly. ;)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
patrick451 5y ago
This is exactly why the CDC should not exit. Their mission is at loggerheads with liberty.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  So any organization which impinges on liberty shouldn't exist? The IRS, fire departments, police departments?
  - systemvoltage 5y ago
    The problem is that the CDC has squandered trust. If my local fire department behaves in a way that manifests immense mistrust in the neighborhood, sure as hell I wouldn't want them to exist. Fortunately, around the country, fire department people are the nicest, kindest, inspiring leaders.
    - armada651 5y ago
      If your local fire department made masks mandates part of the fire safety code they'd be just as hated in that neighborhood. No matter how nice, kind and inspiring the people who work there are.
    - GauntletWizard 5y ago
      Not all of them: https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna39516346 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna39516346
    - drekk 5y ago
      Kind of helps when your job is fighting fires and not preventing people from infecting their loved ones in the name of personal freedom.
  - bally0241 5y ago
    IRS? Yes. I'm OK with abolishing the others too. Volunteer (only) fire departments can stay.
Izkata 5y ago
That's their name, not their scope. Here's an example of what else they do: https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/about/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/about/index.html > In 1979, the U.S. Surgeon General identified violent behavior as a key public health priority. In 1980, CDC began studying patterns of violence. This effort grew into a national program to reduce the death and disability associated with injuries outside the workplace. In 1992, CDC established the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control (NCIPC) as the lead federal organization for violence prevention. The Division of Violence Prevention (DVP) is one of three divisions within NCIPC. DVP is focused on preventing violence and its consequences so that all people, families, and communities are safe, healthy, and free from violence.
anamax 5y ago
Ah yes, the CDC. They've been saying "Spanish Flu - give us money" for years and we find out that they didn't bother to research how any of the flus are transmitted. It's not like flus haven't been killing 35-75k Americans every year for as long as anyone has counted. Speaking of the Spanish Flu, Fauci's PhD was on how improvised masks made it worse... Also, one of the big Spanish Flu outbreaks was "credited" to a parade, aka "a bunch of people walking down the street together." What did the CDC say about such events? (Hint: it praised them if they were BLM.)
- darkhorse222 5y ago
  Careful, you're tipping your hand.
  - colordrops 5y ago
    So what? They may be coming from a politicized angle, and probably only passing facts that support their case, but at least they are facts, and not misinformation, like graphene in vaccines or whatever. Everyone is coming from some bias and angle, so don't judge on that. Judge on the veracity of the statements. Do you have anything to say about the actual statements? Most everything that is wrong with modern discourse is due to ad hominem and labeling rather than discussion of facts.
- cde-v 5y ago
  Gish galloping at its finest
  - colordrops 5y ago
    Ignoring the statements of the comment and resorting to implicit ad hominem at its best. If you consider this the epitomy of gish galloping then you haven't been near conspiracy forums with pages and pages of garbage links.
  - anamax 5y ago
    Which statement do you disagree with?

jatone 5y ago

> How you 'live your life' is orthogonal to that mission orthogonal does not mean what you think it means given your usage. orthogonal means its entirely unrelated. but the fact is disease control and being able to make personal choices w/ respect to living your life can be in direct conflict means its not orthogonal. apologies for this correction orthogonal is just one of my favorite words. =)

Eldt 5y ago
It was used correctly, you've just mistaken the point made about the CDC and how they view their mission
- leereeves 5y ago
  It's definitely not orthogonal to how you live your life; their very purpose is to limit how you live your life in order to prevent/reduce behaviors that spread disease. For example, they issue quarantine orders.[1] People understand that is their mission. Some find it scary. Everyone has a different threshold at which they start to object to the CDC overriding people's freedom in the pursuit of disease control, but everyone will object at some point. For example, would you accept a Shanghai-style lockdown? 1: https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/Public-Health-Order_Generic_FINAL_02-13-2020-p.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/Public-Health-Order_Gener...
  - tragictrash 5y ago
    It feels like your living in some strange alternate reality. What are you talking about? How is the CDC 'overriding freedom'? They collect data and make recommendations. The rest of the world is out here waiting for you, please wake up. We need everyone to make this work.
    - leereeves 5y ago
      > What are you talking about? The CDC's mission is fundamentally the same as the mission of the Chinese disease control agency. The difference is how that mission is balanced against people's freedom to live their lives. Please don't misunderstand; that doesn't mean that I oppose everything they do. Everything they do limits freedom, but sometimes that is necessary.
      - tragictrash 5y ago
        leereeves 5y ago
        > THEY MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS Ahh, I see where the confusion is. They actually have authority to issue legally binding orders. "To help prevent the spread of COVID-19 and help our country cope during the pandemic, CDC has occasionally issued legally binding orders and regulations." https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cdcresponse/laws-regulations.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cdcresponse/laws-r... Not all such orders are listed on that page. For example, "CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky today signed an order determining the evictions of tenants for failure to make rent or housing payments could be detrimental to public health control measures". https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0803-cdc-eviction-order.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0803-cdc-eviction-o...
      - nradov 5y ago
        Which specific limits on freedom are necessary? What are the criteria for determining necessity?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- jatone 5y ago
  no, its not used correctly. If i've misunderstood the point being communicated its because the original comment isn't using words correctly. ;)

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

patrick451 5y ago

This is exactly why the CDC should not exit. Their mission is at loggerheads with liberty.

ethbr0 5y ago
So any organization which impinges on liberty shouldn't exist? The IRS, fire departments, police departments?
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  The problem is that the CDC has squandered trust. If my local fire department behaves in a way that manifests immense mistrust in the neighborhood, sure as hell I wouldn't want them to exist. Fortunately, around the country, fire department people are the nicest, kindest, inspiring leaders.
  - armada651 5y ago
    If your local fire department made masks mandates part of the fire safety code they'd be just as hated in that neighborhood. No matter how nice, kind and inspiring the people who work there are.
  - GauntletWizard 5y ago
    Not all of them: https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna39516346 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna39516346
  - drekk 5y ago
    Kind of helps when your job is fighting fires and not preventing people from infecting their loved ones in the name of personal freedom.
- bally0241 5y ago
  IRS? Yes. I'm OK with abolishing the others too. Volunteer (only) fire departments can stay.

Izkata 5y ago

That's their name, not their scope. Here's an example of what else they do: https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/about/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/about/index.html > In 1979, the U.S. Surgeon General identified violent behavior as a key public health priority. In 1980, CDC began studying patterns of violence. This effort grew into a national program to reduce the death and disability associated with injuries outside the workplace. In 1992, CDC established the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control (NCIPC) as the lead federal organization for violence prevention. The Division of Violence Prevention (DVP) is one of three divisions within NCIPC. DVP is focused on preventing violence and its consequences so that all people, families, and communities are safe, healthy, and free from violence.

anamax 5y ago

Ah yes, the CDC. They've been saying "Spanish Flu - give us money" for years and we find out that they didn't bother to research how any of the flus are transmitted. It's not like flus haven't been killing 35-75k Americans every year for as long as anyone has counted. Speaking of the Spanish Flu, Fauci's PhD was on how improvised masks made it worse... Also, one of the big Spanish Flu outbreaks was "credited" to a parade, aka "a bunch of people walking down the street together." What did the CDC say about such events? (Hint: it praised them if they were BLM.)

darkhorse222 5y ago
Careful, you're tipping your hand.
- colordrops 5y ago
  So what? They may be coming from a politicized angle, and probably only passing facts that support their case, but at least they are facts, and not misinformation, like graphene in vaccines or whatever. Everyone is coming from some bias and angle, so don't judge on that. Judge on the veracity of the statements. Do you have anything to say about the actual statements? Most everything that is wrong with modern discourse is due to ad hominem and labeling rather than discussion of facts.
cde-v 5y ago
Gish galloping at its finest
- colordrops 5y ago
  Ignoring the statements of the comment and resorting to implicit ad hominem at its best. If you consider this the epitomy of gish galloping then you haven't been near conspiracy forums with pages and pages of garbage links.
- anamax 5y ago
  Which statement do you disagree with?