4 ms·

I've never been part of Mensa, but it seems like good concept for when it was created. The basic problem a lot of bright people had -- in the days before telec

by blagie 5y ago

I've never been part of Mensa, but it seems like good concept for when it was created. The basic problem a lot of bright people had -- in the days before telecommunications -- was that the only people you had access to lived on your own street. If you were a nerd, most were boring. A lot of work went into finding interesting people, be that through ham radio, organizations like Mensa, universities (at the time, about 5% of people went to university), gifted programs, or other places nerds could congregate. I don't see much point to Mensa in 2022, but I think the cynicism is unwarranted. What do you do when you have a social club which is suddenly obsoleted by cars, phones, air planes, and the internet?

coldtea 5y ago
>I've never been part of Mensa, but it seems like good concept for when it was created "Let's create an wannabe intellectual elite club based on a controversial and not really representative test, milking suckers with paid tests, and giving them a false sense of achievement and superiority" (and I score in the high range, it's not about sour grapes)
- sitkack 5y ago
  Is it better or worse than having a club for Ivy League schools? At least Mensa doesn't gate membership on political connections and class (yes by proxy, lets be charitable).
- blagie 5y ago
  Tests in 1946 didn't have the same types of controversy as in 2022. Prior to standardized testing, college admissions was literally based on belonging to a club. Rich parents would send you to a prep school, and admissions was based on admissions officers knowing the prep school (and grades, recommendations, etc. there-from). It was introduced to allow anyone from any socioeconomic background, and more demographic backgrounds, to be admitted based on ability rather than wealth. At the time, admissions rates to elite schools weren't nearly as cut-throat. A poor kid could study hard, take a test, and go to Harvard. They didn't make the world equal, but they made it /more/ equal. I really don't think the cynicism is warranted. Institutions go obsolete.
- dusted 5y ago
  I don't think it's about wanting to be an intellectual (evidently, IQ has very little to do with that), but rathe about finding someone who might also be able to think in the same way you do, and socialize and talk with them. I've found that there are people with whom I can share many thoughts and concepts as they pop into my head, and they will "get" it, maybe not agree, but they have the capacity to entertain my idea, bad as it may be. I find that kind of socializing very pleasant, and I much prefer it to "talking about weather and current events in sports and popculture" which also have it's place, but which can be discussed with a much broader selection of people. And that's just me, and I'm not one of the smart ones, but if I can feel like that, I can only imagine that someone in the top 1 percentile would feel something similar, if stronger, and thus would need to make an extra effort to find such company. If you don't feel like this, it's just very likely that you already have this need met from someone around you, and you've just never noticed?
- DiggyJohnson 5y ago
  Did you not read the thread you’re commenting in? There’s a very good reply just a few comments up explaining how the origins of MENSA seem much more reasonable to our modern sensibilities in a lower tech world. Are you dismissing that perspective, or did you just not see it? Ranting about an IQ Club that you’re not a part of seems to me even more embarrassing than what you’re accusing them of. Does that make sense? Maybe that last line is a bit harsh, but I presume MENSA has never negatively impacted your life - certainly not tangibly. This is my experience, and I have no interest in joining. Assuming the worst, and denigrating those that haven’t done anything to deserve it is immature at best, yet it’s something that we seem to be getting more comfortable with. It frustrates me.
giraffe_lady 5y ago
sure but: > If you were a nerd, most were boring. Is either of those strongly linked to IQ? Anecdotally and in my experience not really. You can get pretty far on this by implicitly grouping a certain set of interests into "nerdy" or whatever but that is highly culturally mediated. A generation ago video games and sci-fi would have been a core of that set, but those are just the culture now. The most nerd energy I've ever run across outside of my own interests is in people who follow auto racing and sports. Fiber arts and baking too. Not typically considered or even recognized as valid nerdery but very similar kind and degree of interest. I'd argue that people who want to be in a group of other high IQ people probably do feel superior to people who can't be in that group. Now, and in the past too. Whether that's a useful grouping or a warranted superiority I don't want to get into. But it's really not more complicated than that, sorry.
- blagie 5y ago
  I think you're underestimating just how disconnected the world of 1946 was. In 2022, it's awfully easy to find people into whatever you're into, and you can talk to them around the world. In 1946, if you were a physics nerd and you ran into a chemistry nerd or biology nerd, you'd be excited to have a friend who shared your interest in /science/. As a footnote: Performance on a test like Mensa's is strongly culturally-mediated. I suspect most people can score decently with a bit of practice and training. I think the major question was: - Do you want to talk about football and sports? - Dating and gossip? - Intellectual stuff A lot of this also had to do with how people spend their time. It's a lot easier to be an intellectual / nerd in 2022 than in 1946. I have the world's information at my fingertips.
mdp2021 5y ago
> I don't see much point to Mensa in 2022 To connect people who might have something to exchange. Not differently from HN, really.

by blagie 5y ago

coldtea 5y ago

>I've never been part of Mensa, but it seems like good concept for when it was created "Let's create an wannabe intellectual elite club based on a controversial and not really representative test, milking suckers with paid tests, and giving them a false sense of achievement and superiority" (and I score in the high range, it's not about sour grapes)

sitkack 5y ago
Is it better or worse than having a club for Ivy League schools? At least Mensa doesn't gate membership on political connections and class (yes by proxy, lets be charitable).
blagie 5y ago
Tests in 1946 didn't have the same types of controversy as in 2022. Prior to standardized testing, college admissions was literally based on belonging to a club. Rich parents would send you to a prep school, and admissions was based on admissions officers knowing the prep school (and grades, recommendations, etc. there-from). It was introduced to allow anyone from any socioeconomic background, and more demographic backgrounds, to be admitted based on ability rather than wealth. At the time, admissions rates to elite schools weren't nearly as cut-throat. A poor kid could study hard, take a test, and go to Harvard. They didn't make the world equal, but they made it /more/ equal. I really don't think the cynicism is warranted. Institutions go obsolete.
dusted 5y ago
I don't think it's about wanting to be an intellectual (evidently, IQ has very little to do with that), but rathe about finding someone who might also be able to think in the same way you do, and socialize and talk with them. I've found that there are people with whom I can share many thoughts and concepts as they pop into my head, and they will "get" it, maybe not agree, but they have the capacity to entertain my idea, bad as it may be. I find that kind of socializing very pleasant, and I much prefer it to "talking about weather and current events in sports and popculture" which also have it's place, but which can be discussed with a much broader selection of people. And that's just me, and I'm not one of the smart ones, but if I can feel like that, I can only imagine that someone in the top 1 percentile would feel something similar, if stronger, and thus would need to make an extra effort to find such company. If you don't feel like this, it's just very likely that you already have this need met from someone around you, and you've just never noticed?
DiggyJohnson 5y ago
Did you not read the thread you’re commenting in? There’s a very good reply just a few comments up explaining how the origins of MENSA seem much more reasonable to our modern sensibilities in a lower tech world. Are you dismissing that perspective, or did you just not see it? Ranting about an IQ Club that you’re not a part of seems to me even more embarrassing than what you’re accusing them of. Does that make sense? Maybe that last line is a bit harsh, but I presume MENSA has never negatively impacted your life - certainly not tangibly. This is my experience, and I have no interest in joining. Assuming the worst, and denigrating those that haven’t done anything to deserve it is immature at best, yet it’s something that we seem to be getting more comfortable with. It frustrates me.

giraffe_lady 5y ago

sure but: > If you were a nerd, most were boring. Is either of those strongly linked to IQ? Anecdotally and in my experience not really. You can get pretty far on this by implicitly grouping a certain set of interests into "nerdy" or whatever but that is highly culturally mediated. A generation ago video games and sci-fi would have been a core of that set, but those are just the culture now. The most nerd energy I've ever run across outside of my own interests is in people who follow auto racing and sports. Fiber arts and baking too. Not typically considered or even recognized as valid nerdery but very similar kind and degree of interest. I'd argue that people who want to be in a group of other high IQ people probably do feel superior to people who can't be in that group. Now, and in the past too. Whether that's a useful grouping or a warranted superiority I don't want to get into. But it's really not more complicated than that, sorry.

blagie 5y ago
I think you're underestimating just how disconnected the world of 1946 was. In 2022, it's awfully easy to find people into whatever you're into, and you can talk to them around the world. In 1946, if you were a physics nerd and you ran into a chemistry nerd or biology nerd, you'd be excited to have a friend who shared your interest in /science/. As a footnote: Performance on a test like Mensa's is strongly culturally-mediated. I suspect most people can score decently with a bit of practice and training. I think the major question was: - Do you want to talk about football and sports? - Dating and gossip? - Intellectual stuff A lot of this also had to do with how people spend their time. It's a lot easier to be an intellectual / nerd in 2022 than in 1946. I have the world's information at my fingertips.

mdp2021 5y ago

> I don't see much point to Mensa in 2022 To connect people who might have something to exchange. Not differently from HN, really.