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The Negative Link Between Extraversion and Perceived Listening
- SemanticStrengh 5y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_listening https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_listening
- ggm 5y agointeresting the phrase dates to '57. The rise of modern pop-sci, bearing in mind Coué and Dale Carnegie had been plodding along since the early 1900s, I had assumed this was older. But, its surprisingly modern in some ways. Active listening is a black art (black? white?) -because it can be overbearing done wrong. It really depends how its done. "I know, I know" can be like "stop schooling me" receiver side, when in fact sender side its 'Yes, I am here, I agree, I follow, I am listening'
- SemanticStrengh 5y agoFacts
- ggm 5y agoAh, facts. When your active listener says "correct" to show agreement and you feel like you're being schooled "correct: ten points to gryffendor" Uh no. I know I was correct, you aren't the judge of facts here..
- SemanticStrengh 5y ago
- blep_ 4y agoI've heard "true" in this context and it's mildly infuriating for the same reasons. I know it was true. I also know you did not know that.
- civilized 5y agoTen or twenty years ago, young women invented saying "I know!" in a tone of voice that indicates enthusiastic support and affirmation.
- ggm 5y agothe rise of Valley-Speak?
- SemanticStrengh 5y ago
- sirsinsalot 4y agoJust saying "I know" or positive affirmations isn't active listening. Active listening is more about repeating back to the person what you heard, but in your own voice/words/understanding to constantly sync with the person you're listening to that you understood. Aside from (as an extrovert) finding this helpful in understanding, as someone with ADHD it also stops my mind wandering from listening. Done right, it deepens communication and a sense of feeling understood in a true sense.
- SemanticStrengh 4y agoare you sirsadalot?
- klabb3 5y agoFirst time I heard of active listening was in a corporate self-improvement class. People around me (the majority were extroverted bay area marketing/product folks) were mind blown. Many had never experienced anything like it. To me, it was just... listening. (Not saying this to self-promote, I had the same experience as them in other exercises.) I do think there's a cultural distinction as well. Americans have a very intense small talk conversational culture. If you stop and think, it's a sign of weakness, so people are very good at filling the void if need be. In other cultures, speaking prematurely without anything good to say can be worse than saying nothing.
- 4gotunameagain 5y agoGood point about cultural differences. In Finland for example small talk is seen as a waste of time. A famous example of course being Kimi Räikkönen :)
- photochemsyn 5y agoIf you follow that back, it turns out that 'active listening' was introduced as a skill/approach for counselors and therapists in controlled settings with their patients. It might be best reserved for such situations. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J001v20n02_09 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J001v20n02_09
- sirsinsalot 4y agoActive listening goes further back and is described (though not named) by Carl Rogers in the 1950s If you're interested in how other people can present an environment for human growth, his work is still as relevant today as ever.
- wintermutestwin 5y agoActive listening is a key component in conflict resolution. Counter to popular opinion, active listening is not patiently keeping your mouth shut and trying to make the other think you are paying attention. Key word is active and it means asking clarifying questions and humbly testing your understanding of what they are saying. Exercised as such, I find it is "best reserved" for just about every conversation you have.
- SamBam 5y agoInterestingly, the issue is not simply that extroverted people don't appear to listen to others, it's that when they do listen to others, the speaker assumes that they are simply good at pretending they are listening. > Furthermore, interaction partners assume that extraversion is positively associated with a greater ability to modify one’s self-presentation. It seems like a can't-win situation for any extroverted people who are actually good listeners.
- nicksiscoe 5y agoThis isn’t always the case, but sometimes I find myself naturally skeptical of people who seem overly interested in what’s going on in my life and overwhelming positive and complimentary of anything I mention - as if the nicer someone is the more I perceive their kindness to be BS. I’ve had to focus on suppressing this inclination to see the genuine good in others at times.
- Vanit 5y agoMy one data point; the one ex-friend I had that was really encouraging/interested in things I talked about (at first) turned out to be a borderline sociopath and I had to end the friendship.
- switchbak 5y agoI've had similar experiences. I find some people use attention and the doling out of validation to establish control and eventually manipulation. They don't have to be sociopaths, even average narcissists often play such games. It's very counter intuitive to question someone's motives when their external presentation is so disarming. Undoubtedly this keeps you from some genuine relationships as well though.
- tsol 5y agoInteresting. I sometimes see that. But sometimes I find some people are just nice.
- heyflyguy 5y ago"Why many software engineers think salespeople are idiots" Though, now I have learned they more than earn their money.
- DiabloD3 5y agoNo, most software engineers think salespeople are idiots because they have a bad habit of selling things to customers that don't exist yet, and in many cases cannot exist, and then you have to tell them, point blank, that they just lied to a customer to secure a sale and no solution to their problem with be coming. Salespeople generally only care about this quarter, if a chargeback or contract cancelation happens, that's a next quarter problem. Example that hit the front page yesterday: https://jolynch.github.io/posts/distsys_shibboleths/ https://jolynch.github.io/posts/distsys_shibboleths/ I've seen many of these "negative shibboleths" said by salespeople shoveling database products to secure the sale. They lied, they knew they lied, and they lied to worship at the altar of the almighty dollar.
- argc 5y agoI'd say that's more a problem with their incentives. When companies treat them like cannon fodder and cut them based on their monthly numbers, there's a huge incentive to do what it takes to make a sale. What's the worst that happens when you lie and make a sale? You get told not to do it again? Better than getting fired.
- throwaway98797 4y agoit’s not a lie if they believe it
- mhh__ 5y agoThe only thing I ever actually learnt in my school art lessons was when the older art teacher taught us how to nod while staring at someone's forehead to fake eye contact.
- crotho 5y ago
- shsbdncudx 5y agoPeople like people who are like themselves, or are like who they want to be. It’s like docking a spaceship, you’ve got to reflect some of the other person, but not too much, and narrow into their groove. There you’ll find a relationship you can both work with.
- sdiupIGPWEfh 5y agoI wonder if there could be a corollary to this. I'm quite introverted and for some reason people seem to think I'm an excellent listener, when actually I'm actively ignoring them and wishing they'd just stop talking already. Come to think of it, I feel like I've seen a webcomic somewhere making this same observation.
- jimmygrapes 5y agoSmile and nod, it's all you need!
- photochemsyn 5y agoThe references in that paper lead to some interesting rabbit holes. Here's one (Zajenkowski et al.): > "Grandiose and vulnerable narcissism have distinct personality profiles. Specifically, grandiose narcissism correlates positively with Extraversion and negatively with Neuroticism, whereas vulnerable narcissism showed a reverse associations with these traits. Additionally, both types of narcissism have common antagonistic core as they are negatively related to Agreeableness." Being agreeable if one has to engage in small talk conversation is the best option. Probably not the time to get into the optimal technological approaches in your particular field, even if that's what you've been thinking about all day. Making small talk is such a chore... and 'uncomfortable silence' doesn't need to be uncomfortable... and please, Lord, preserve us from the amateur therapist out to demonstrate what a good listener they are.
- Swizec 5y ago> preserve us from the amateur therapist out to demonstrate what a good listener they are I already know my stories, yours are new and exciting.
- mirko22 5y agoSince all you can see is the abstract and the references I wouldn't really call this anything I can comment on. But just from what I can read seems very very stretched theory. How do you even say with confidence that a person is 100% intro/extrovert and from there all the theories built on top go down the drain.... Even the terms extrovert and introvert were hijacked by mainstream culture to mean outgoing and not outgoing people which don't paint the proper picture of human behavior in my opinion... That's just me though.
- DoreenMichele 5y agoI'm an extrovert. In my youth, I tended to remember personal details about people without trying. This went really weird places at times. People thought I was deeply interested in them because I happened to remember them. My best guess: humans are designed for a little village or tribe of around 150 people and we really aren't that good at navigating social anything outside that circumstance. Edit: I say that in part because I have read that Napoleon remembered personal details like that and it's part of why his troops were insanely loyal and would literally die for the man. I've read he liberally abused their assumption that he must deeply care because he could remember stuff about them. Some people just remember such things without trying. It's other people who decide it means x, y or z when it doesn't.
- walnutclosefarm 4y agoIn my case, it's not that I perceive extroverts to be listening less, I just don't believe that in most cases they care about what I'm saying. Extroverts seem to me to live for the interaction, not for the content of the interaction. To me this is the essence of small talk - what is said isn't the point; it's the fact that words are being exchanged that gets and keeps the juices flowing. Related to this, I have never believed that (at least extreme) extroverts understand introverts in any deep sense. They tend to see us as lacking something vital (this constant social exchange of what is often mostly meaningless information). Introverts do understand extroverts though - we know the interactions are feeding a need in them not unlike the need for a fix of a someone addicted to an addictive, although not enormously harmful, drug.
- yowlingcat 4y ago> Related to this, I have never believed that (at least extreme) extroverts understand introverts in any deep sense. > Introverts do understand extroverts though - we know the interactions are feeding a need in them not unlike the need for a fix of a someone addicted to an addictive, although not enormously harmful, drug. These sound like the nihilistic words of neither an introvert or an extrovert but a misanthrope. I wonder if you recognize the irony intrinsic in stereotyping people into the categorically questionable binary separation between introvert and extrovert in a manner that favors and gets revenge on those "pesky" extroverts, as it's exactly the kind of treatment that the wrong members (who usually wear it with undue pride) of the "extrovert" apply destructively and quite regularly. My opinion is that the impulse to accurately model the behavior of people this broadly, belies an inability to accurately model any of it at all.
- walnutclosefarm 4y agoI don't see where you think I'm getting revenge on "pesky extroverts." I'm trying to understand them. And it's a useful model, e.g., to explain why for my wife's closest friend, Covid lockdown and social distancing caused enormous anxiety and even pain, whereas I experienced them as a serendipitous release from social overstimulation. He experience withdrawal; I experienced a haven. That doesn't mean I don't respect him, or like him, or that I want to change him. It just means I understand that he has a genuine need that I do not. That's not to say I might not also be a misanthrope. You're not the first to venture such a diagnosis. I most certainly am not a nihilist, however.