6 ms·

If you are against fertilisers, chances are you are against GMO as well.

eloff 5y ago
I think the biggest objections to fertilizers are environmental? It's not like pesticides where people worry about residue on their food? They may not be overlapping then.
- neltnerb 5y ago
  Fertilizer overuse causing runoff is half the concern, that part causes algae blooms. On the other half is that fertilizers are either mined (unlikely) or manufactured from nitrogen in the air plus hydrogen. The downside is that the hydrogen is almost entirely made from natural gas. So, fertilizers start as mostly fossil fuel energetically, and end up feeding algae blooms if overused. This seems like a huge deal to me, I've been keeping an eye on this kind of project for a long time. Reducing use of fertilizer means less fossil fuel use, and if it's generated locally and in the right amounts it is bound to help on the waste side too.
  - rmason 5y ago
    Actually most cases of runoff these days are from lawn fertilizer and manure from very large livestock operations. The later is on its way to being controlled with farmers having to fill out and get approved plans for manure disposal. Nothing is being done that I am aware about lawn fertilizer overuse and I am not certain as to why?
    - denimnerd42 5y ago
      it’s nearly impossible to find lawn fertilizer with phosphorus in it nowadays in many parts or all of the US so something is being done.
bell-cot 5y ago
IIR, there's quite a bit of opposition to large-scale, commercial agricultural fertilizers that is based on "the poor farmers often end up in debt bondage" arguments. (A line of reasoning which could also be applied to GMO's where the underlying IP is controlled by big, greedy corporations.)
- pkaye 5y ago
  Farmers can always use organic fertilizers if they want.
christophilus 5y ago
My main problem with GMO is that it usually means: loads of pesticides and abuse of monopolistic powers, especially in poorer countries.
- credit_guy 5y ago
  If that’s the problem, then ban or regulate pesticides. Instead, the EU bans GMOs themselves.
- ch4s3 5y ago
  In practice it seems like capital intensive large scale mono-cropping does most of that without GMOs needing to make an appearance. Careful application of GMOs could probably cut the need for fertilizers and pesticides. Figuring out how to maintain some food production capacity without debt peonage in developing countries is a policy problem more than a technical problem.
  - TaylorAlexander 5y ago
    In practice? A major reason for the explosion in use of the herbicide glyphosate (RoundUp) is the use of genetically modified crops that are glyphosate resistant. Because of this users of these crops can dump huge volumes of glyphosate on their farms. This is a well known example of GMO’s leading to an increase in use of biocides.
    - drewmol 5y ago
      Worth noting, the increase in desiccation practices, to prepare crops for a more scheduled harvest is also leading to a huge increase in glyphosate usage. It’s used high concentrations on crops at the last stage of crop growth just prior to harvest, in expectation of dry conditions which are ideal for harvesting, among other benefits. https://ensia.com/features/glyphosate-drying/ https://ensia.com/features/glyphosate-drying/
      - colechristensen 5y ago
striking 5y ago
There's a synthetic fertilizer shortage right now. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-01/farmers-are-struggling-to-keep-up-food-supply-as-fertilizer-prices-surge https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-01/farmers-a...
Melatonic 5y ago
Most people are against the current *implementation* of GMO. Hopefully as the process gets easier and cheaper we will get more options
delecti 5y ago
I think we should use less fertilizer because most of it is made from petroleum we should be leaving in the ground. I think GMOs that let us use less fertilizer is awesome.
- ajmurmann 5y ago
  Could this even result in (temporary?) carbon capture?

I think the biggest objections to fertilizers are environmental? It's not like pesticides where people worry about residue on their food? They may not be overlapping then.

neltnerb 5y ago
Fertilizer overuse causing runoff is half the concern, that part causes algae blooms. On the other half is that fertilizers are either mined (unlikely) or manufactured from nitrogen in the air plus hydrogen. The downside is that the hydrogen is almost entirely made from natural gas. So, fertilizers start as mostly fossil fuel energetically, and end up feeding algae blooms if overused. This seems like a huge deal to me, I've been keeping an eye on this kind of project for a long time. Reducing use of fertilizer means less fossil fuel use, and if it's generated locally and in the right amounts it is bound to help on the waste side too.
- rmason 5y ago
  Actually most cases of runoff these days are from lawn fertilizer and manure from very large livestock operations. The later is on its way to being controlled with farmers having to fill out and get approved plans for manure disposal. Nothing is being done that I am aware about lawn fertilizer overuse and I am not certain as to why?
  - denimnerd42 5y ago
    it’s nearly impossible to find lawn fertilizer with phosphorus in it nowadays in many parts or all of the US so something is being done.

bell-cot 5y ago

IIR, there's quite a bit of opposition to large-scale, commercial agricultural fertilizers that is based on "the poor farmers often end up in debt bondage" arguments. (A line of reasoning which could also be applied to GMO's where the underlying IP is controlled by big, greedy corporations.)

pkaye 5y ago
Farmers can always use organic fertilizers if they want.

christophilus 5y ago

My main problem with GMO is that it usually means: loads of pesticides and abuse of monopolistic powers, especially in poorer countries.

credit_guy 5y ago
If that’s the problem, then ban or regulate pesticides. Instead, the EU bans GMOs themselves.
ch4s3 5y ago
In practice it seems like capital intensive large scale mono-cropping does most of that without GMOs needing to make an appearance. Careful application of GMOs could probably cut the need for fertilizers and pesticides. Figuring out how to maintain some food production capacity without debt peonage in developing countries is a policy problem more than a technical problem.
- TaylorAlexander 5y ago
  In practice? A major reason for the explosion in use of the herbicide glyphosate (RoundUp) is the use of genetically modified crops that are glyphosate resistant. Because of this users of these crops can dump huge volumes of glyphosate on their farms. This is a well known example of GMO’s leading to an increase in use of biocides.
  - drewmol 5y ago
    Worth noting, the increase in desiccation practices, to prepare crops for a more scheduled harvest is also leading to a huge increase in glyphosate usage. It’s used high concentrations on crops at the last stage of crop growth just prior to harvest, in expectation of dry conditions which are ideal for harvesting, among other benefits. https://ensia.com/features/glyphosate-drying/ https://ensia.com/features/glyphosate-drying/
    - colechristensen 5y ago

striking 5y ago

There's a synthetic fertilizer shortage right now. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-01/farmers-are-struggling-to-keep-up-food-supply-as-fertilizer-prices-surge https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-01/farmers-a...

Melatonic 5y ago

Most people are against the current *implementation* of GMO. Hopefully as the process gets easier and cheaper we will get more options

delecti 5y ago

I think we should use less fertilizer because most of it is made from petroleum we should be leaving in the ground. I think GMOs that let us use less fertilizer is awesome.

ajmurmann 5y ago
Could this even result in (temporary?) carbon capture?