5 ms·

Yea the way we do mass farming now is MASSively flawed. It produces huge yields but has tons of fragility - monoculture crops being a huge flaw as well. The on

Yea the way we do mass farming now is MASSively flawed. It produces huge yields but has tons of fragility - monoculture crops being a huge flaw as well. The one that fascinates me the most is the way the Mayans did it - Chinampas. That and aquaculture growing lots of smaller fish seems like a create combo if we could get small backyard pond/farms going

giantg2 5y ago
I dream of having land with a pond. Properly managed, it could produce about 50 pounds of bluegills, etc from a 1/2 pond every year, with little input and infrequent work.
- arthurcolle 5y ago
  Do bluegills taste any good?
  - psychlops 5y ago
    lol, good question. Blackened bluegill if not. You could always do tilapia or catfish.
    - arthurcolle 5y ago
      Tilapia has always been pretty tasteless in various dishes I've tried so not really a big fan. Catfish can be ok sometimes
      - Trisell 5y ago
        Tilapia is the tofu of fish. It tastes like nothing on its own but is a massive sponge to flavors you throw at it.
  - benji-york 5y ago
    There are better-tasting fish, but yes.
    - giantg2 5y ago
      That's probably a personal preference or maybe due to water quality. They're one of my favorite. There's a great TED talk our there about water quality and fish flavor, but I don't remember the person.
      - SantalBlush 5y ago
        Seconded. Pan-fried bluegill can be pretty darn good.
  - nwallin 5y ago
    It's not dissimilar from tilapia; mild flavored whitefish. It's not as flavorful or tender as trout, but better than catfish.
    - giantg2 5y ago
      Maybe we are eating different fish. Stocked trout is pretty bland and somewhat mushy. I've never had truly wild trout, so maybe they are better. The bluegills here taste a lot better than farmed tilapia (do they even sell wild?) - mild, a little sweet, and flakes well. I agree bluegills are better than catfish, but depending on the catfish I prefer them over tilapia. I hear that water quality and, to a lesser extent, water chemistry has a huge impact on taste. I've sort of noticed that in certain lakes compared to others.
    - ryanmercer 5y ago
      > but better than catfish. I challenge you to a duel, thems fightin' words. Fried catfish is one of the greatest things on the planet (mind you not terribly healthy).
pphysch 5y ago
Aquaculture is a huge industry in East/SE Asia. There's lots of FUD about China maliciously overconsuming fish, but they actually (sustainably) farm >50% of their seafood IIRC.
- R0b0t1 5y ago
  There's no FUD, Chinese fishermen move into other country's territorial waters and poach fish.
- artificial 5y ago
  The quantity is vast they can be seen from space at night. https://youtu.be/xB6-bAF9B8A https://youtu.be/xB6-bAF9B8A
rdevsrex 5y ago
I agree, but I think it's hard for us non-farmers to grasp the scale of industrial agriculture. I would love it we switched over to another way of doing things, but with 8 billion people, there is no feasible way back to an earlier, organic way of life. How are we going to feed another 2 billion people let alone those that we have without fossil fuel inputs? Maybe biotech will save us, but I am skeptical.
- myshpa 5y ago
  Stop eating cows & dairy. Immediately you've reduced the scale by 75%. If the world adopted a plant-based diet we would reduce global agricultural land use from 4 to 1 billion hectares [https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets]. Stop employing people in bullshit jobs. Immediately you've got 75% workforce on basic income, and I think some of them would like to work on small scale local farms. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_agriculture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_agriculture] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income] We already grow food for 10 milliard (thousand millions for our obscurant us friends) people. Problem is poverty and inequality, not scarcity. [https://www.huffpost.com/entry/world-hunger_b_1463429 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/world-hunger_b_1463429]
  - guessbest 5y ago
    Cows make fertilizer through manure. > https://www.finegardening.com/project-guides/gardening-basics/fertilizing-the-old-fashioned-way-with-manure https://www.finegardening.com/project-guides/gardening-basic...
    - myshpa 5y ago
      Thank you. Yes, they do. But they are pretty inefficient manure factories [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/land-use-kcal-poore https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/land-use-kcal-poore]. We even have 8 milliards of humans producing manure, which we currently (mostly) flush to the sea [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_soil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_soil]. And if we do use it, we do it wrongly [https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/22/i-dont-know-how-well-survive-the-farmers-facing-ruin-in-americas-forever-chemicals-crisis https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/22/i-dont-k...]. We have to learn how to use what we have (atmosphere, rhizosphere, pigs, poultry, humans), that what does not destroy forests and wildlife (cows), and avoid that that kills and poisons the nature (pesticides & herbicides). Then we have a chance.

giantg2 5y ago

I dream of having land with a pond. Properly managed, it could produce about 50 pounds of bluegills, etc from a 1/2 pond every year, with little input and infrequent work.

arthurcolle 5y ago
Do bluegills taste any good?
- psychlops 5y ago
  lol, good question. Blackened bluegill if not. You could always do tilapia or catfish.
  - arthurcolle 5y ago
    Tilapia has always been pretty tasteless in various dishes I've tried so not really a big fan. Catfish can be ok sometimes
    - Trisell 5y ago
      Tilapia is the tofu of fish. It tastes like nothing on its own but is a massive sponge to flavors you throw at it.
- benji-york 5y ago
  There are better-tasting fish, but yes.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    That's probably a personal preference or maybe due to water quality. They're one of my favorite. There's a great TED talk our there about water quality and fish flavor, but I don't remember the person.
    - SantalBlush 5y ago
      Seconded. Pan-fried bluegill can be pretty darn good.
- nwallin 5y ago
  It's not dissimilar from tilapia; mild flavored whitefish. It's not as flavorful or tender as trout, but better than catfish.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    Maybe we are eating different fish. Stocked trout is pretty bland and somewhat mushy. I've never had truly wild trout, so maybe they are better. The bluegills here taste a lot better than farmed tilapia (do they even sell wild?) - mild, a little sweet, and flakes well. I agree bluegills are better than catfish, but depending on the catfish I prefer them over tilapia. I hear that water quality and, to a lesser extent, water chemistry has a huge impact on taste. I've sort of noticed that in certain lakes compared to others.
  - ryanmercer 5y ago
    > but better than catfish. I challenge you to a duel, thems fightin' words. Fried catfish is one of the greatest things on the planet (mind you not terribly healthy).

pphysch 5y ago

Aquaculture is a huge industry in East/SE Asia. There's lots of FUD about China maliciously overconsuming fish, but they actually (sustainably) farm >50% of their seafood IIRC.

R0b0t1 5y ago
There's no FUD, Chinese fishermen move into other country's territorial waters and poach fish.
artificial 5y ago
The quantity is vast they can be seen from space at night. https://youtu.be/xB6-bAF9B8A https://youtu.be/xB6-bAF9B8A

rdevsrex 5y ago

I agree, but I think it's hard for us non-farmers to grasp the scale of industrial agriculture. I would love it we switched over to another way of doing things, but with 8 billion people, there is no feasible way back to an earlier, organic way of life. How are we going to feed another 2 billion people let alone those that we have without fossil fuel inputs? Maybe biotech will save us, but I am skeptical.

myshpa 5y ago
Stop eating cows & dairy. Immediately you've reduced the scale by 75%. If the world adopted a plant-based diet we would reduce global agricultural land use from 4 to 1 billion hectares [https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets]. Stop employing people in bullshit jobs. Immediately you've got 75% workforce on basic income, and I think some of them would like to work on small scale local farms. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_agriculture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_agriculture] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income] We already grow food for 10 milliard (thousand millions for our obscurant us friends) people. Problem is poverty and inequality, not scarcity. [https://www.huffpost.com/entry/world-hunger_b_1463429 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/world-hunger_b_1463429]
- guessbest 5y ago
  Cows make fertilizer through manure. > https://www.finegardening.com/project-guides/gardening-basics/fertilizing-the-old-fashioned-way-with-manure https://www.finegardening.com/project-guides/gardening-basic...
  - myshpa 5y ago
    Thank you. Yes, they do. But they are pretty inefficient manure factories [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/land-use-kcal-poore https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/land-use-kcal-poore]. We even have 8 milliards of humans producing manure, which we currently (mostly) flush to the sea [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_soil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_soil]. And if we do use it, we do it wrongly [https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/22/i-dont-know-how-well-survive-the-farmers-facing-ruin-in-americas-forever-chemicals-crisis https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/22/i-dont-k...]. We have to learn how to use what we have (atmosphere, rhizosphere, pigs, poultry, humans), that what does not destroy forests and wildlife (cows), and avoid that that kills and poisons the nature (pesticides & herbicides). Then we have a chance.