4 ms·

This post gets it wrong already in the headline. At least if your happiness (instead of short-term satisfaction) is your objective, it's not about love but abou

by jll29 5y ago

This post gets it wrong already in the headline. At least if your happiness (instead of short-term satisfaction) is your objective, it's not about love but about love. Let me explain: the headline mentions "eros" for love, which is one of several (Greek) words for love, but focusing on physical erotics (lust). Nothing wrong with lust per se, but lust considered in isolation can be a selfish thing. Now "agape", another (Greek) word for love, focuses on the aspect of unselfish act of loving a person (the way that one loves a child, parent or friend, or a partner that is also a best friend), to want the other to be happy, to want all the best for them, even at the cost of substantial personal sacrifice. As long as people treat "dating" as some an online shopping for erotic pleasure, a form of cattle market to get cheap sex, they will just keep browsing and comparing, and quickly get bored and move on. True love can only be found if it's not all about eros, but also agape, and to know someone well enough that the latter can grow takes considerable time, and a willingness to understand a person deeply. Related post (not mine): 4 types of "love": https://fromerostoagape.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/eros-romantic-love-and-agape-unconditional-love/ https://fromerostoagape.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/eros-romant... I wish all readers of this post that they find their true love if they haven't done so yet.

jdrc 5y ago
Eros did not just represent lust but also love. Agape is a context more limited to christianity, which kind of has anti-sexual overtone. But there were many Erotes representing all kinds of desire and attraction > Anteros ("Love Returned"),[1] Hedylogos ("Sweet-talk"), Hermaphroditus ("Hermaphrodite" or "Effeminate"), Himeros ("Impetuous Love" or "Pressing Desire"), Hymenaios ("Bridal-Hymn"), and Pothos ("Desire, Longing," especially for one who is absent)
- xupybd 5y ago
  Really there is Greek specific to Christian use? That's interesting. I'll have to look into that. It makes sense that different groups used different worlds. There are English terms like sanctification that you don't hear outside Christian circles.
  - RichardCA 5y ago
    The basic rule is that if the subject of debate is in the Old Testament you look at the Hebrew, and in the New Testament you look at the Greek. I was fortunate to have a teacher in High School who explained this to the class. He was my Physics teacher.
  - haunter 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love
  - twic 5y ago
    The word 'agape' existed before Christianity, and meant something broadly similar - some kind of love, not necessarily romantic or sexual. It seems to me that the precise nuance varied a lot over time. For example, the Septuagint, the translation of the Hebrew scriptures into Greek in ~200 BC, uses it for all forms of love, including in the extremely saucy Song of Solomon [1]. The 20th Delphic maxim (~600 BC) is "Φιλίαν ἀγάπα", which means something like "desire friendship" [2]. In the Odyssey (~700 BC), Eurycleia describes Telemachus as "μοῦνος ἐὼν ἀγαπητός", meaning Odysseus's "only and beloved" son [3]. [1] https://www.patheos.com/blogs/tomhobson/2018/04/how-did-agape-become-the-ultimate-word-for-love/ https://www.patheos.com/blogs/tomhobson/2018/04/how-did-agap... [2] https://www.hellenion.org/essays-on-hellenic-polytheism/delphic-maxims/ https://www.hellenion.org/essays-on-hellenic-polytheism/delp... [3] https://www.loebclassics.com/view/homer-odyssey/1919/pb_LCL104.73.xml?result=2&rskey=kbPEUc&readMode=reader https://www.loebclassics.com/view/homer-odyssey/1919/pb_LCL1...
- nickelcitymario 5y ago
  > [...] christianity, which kind of has anti-sexual overtone. As a Christian, I wouldn't agree with this statement. Most denominations that I've experienced are very pro-sex. We see sex as a gift from God, intended to bond two (or, depending on the denomination, maybe more) people together. God is Love, we're taught, and sex is understood to be an expression of love. Now, you might be right if you said Christianity was against certain types of sex. I'm not, and I think the sexual morality police are an overly loud portion of Christians. Most Christians I know are very open and accepting of people's sexuality. But there is certainly an abundance of Christians who feel it's our responsibility to tell people about the right and wrong applications of sex. But "anti-sex" overall? Any such denomination would go extinct pretty quickly if their followers actually followed that.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - DicIfTEx 5y ago
    > But "anti-sex" overall? Any such denomination would go extinct pretty quickly if their followers actually followed that. Case in point: the Shakers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakers)
  - mejutoco 5y ago
    I realize you didn’t talk explicitely of catholicism but at least in catholicism there is a strong control of sex: priests make vows of celibacy, sex is seen only as a means for reproduction, and there is literature on using exercise (if not worse) to put off sex. Lots of practices of christianity have masoquism undertones (original sin, some rituals). Of course this does not mean everyday christians share this interpretation, but historically I believe it correct to say the Catholic church is not pro-sex.
    - mensetmanusman 5y ago
      It’s important to realize that Catholicism as practiced by a given culture is influenced by prevailing beliefs. The puritan(ical) genesis of the United States has resulted in a mostly Protestant practice of Catholicism in the U.S. (polls of US Catholics show that over half diverge with Catholic teachings). Catholicism in my experience is very pro-sex, and many teachings are dedicated to it: https://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae.html https://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en/encyclicals/docume...
sandgiant 5y ago
Thank you for bringing this up. This is an important distinction. I'm totally with you until the sentence that includes "find their true love". This sounds like there is a very particular kind of love (the true kind) and perhaps also a particular person that is the true "love of your life", and both need to somehow be "found". I'm not trying to be pedantic, but genuinely curious as to whether you have thought on this as well, as I find the first part of your post quite illuminating.
adriand 5y ago
> Let me explain: the headline mentions "eros" for love, which is one of several (Greek) words for love, but focusing on physical erotics (lust). Did you read the article? I feel like you wrote your comment to demonstrate your grasp of Greek vocabulary, not because you had a meaningful response to the author of this post — a post which is quite nuanced and interesting and, I might add, not at all focused on lust.

by jll29 5y ago

jdrc 5y ago

Eros did not just represent lust but also love. Agape is a context more limited to christianity, which kind of has anti-sexual overtone. But there were many Erotes representing all kinds of desire and attraction > Anteros ("Love Returned"),[1] Hedylogos ("Sweet-talk"), Hermaphroditus ("Hermaphrodite" or "Effeminate"), Himeros ("Impetuous Love" or "Pressing Desire"), Hymenaios ("Bridal-Hymn"), and Pothos ("Desire, Longing," especially for one who is absent)

xupybd 5y ago
Really there is Greek specific to Christian use? That's interesting. I'll have to look into that. It makes sense that different groups used different worlds. There are English terms like sanctification that you don't hear outside Christian circles.
- RichardCA 5y ago
  The basic rule is that if the subject of debate is in the Old Testament you look at the Hebrew, and in the New Testament you look at the Greek. I was fortunate to have a teacher in High School who explained this to the class. He was my Physics teacher.
- haunter 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love
- twic 5y ago
  The word 'agape' existed before Christianity, and meant something broadly similar - some kind of love, not necessarily romantic or sexual. It seems to me that the precise nuance varied a lot over time. For example, the Septuagint, the translation of the Hebrew scriptures into Greek in ~200 BC, uses it for all forms of love, including in the extremely saucy Song of Solomon [1]. The 20th Delphic maxim (~600 BC) is "Φιλίαν ἀγάπα", which means something like "desire friendship" [2]. In the Odyssey (~700 BC), Eurycleia describes Telemachus as "μοῦνος ἐὼν ἀγαπητός", meaning Odysseus's "only and beloved" son [3]. [1] https://www.patheos.com/blogs/tomhobson/2018/04/how-did-agape-become-the-ultimate-word-for-love/ https://www.patheos.com/blogs/tomhobson/2018/04/how-did-agap... [2] https://www.hellenion.org/essays-on-hellenic-polytheism/delphic-maxims/ https://www.hellenion.org/essays-on-hellenic-polytheism/delp... [3] https://www.loebclassics.com/view/homer-odyssey/1919/pb_LCL104.73.xml?result=2&rskey=kbPEUc&readMode=reader https://www.loebclassics.com/view/homer-odyssey/1919/pb_LCL1...
nickelcitymario 5y ago
> [...] christianity, which kind of has anti-sexual overtone. As a Christian, I wouldn't agree with this statement. Most denominations that I've experienced are very pro-sex. We see sex as a gift from God, intended to bond two (or, depending on the denomination, maybe more) people together. God is Love, we're taught, and sex is understood to be an expression of love. Now, you might be right if you said Christianity was against certain types of sex. I'm not, and I think the sexual morality police are an overly loud portion of Christians. Most Christians I know are very open and accepting of people's sexuality. But there is certainly an abundance of Christians who feel it's our responsibility to tell people about the right and wrong applications of sex. But "anti-sex" overall? Any such denomination would go extinct pretty quickly if their followers actually followed that.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- DicIfTEx 5y ago
  > But "anti-sex" overall? Any such denomination would go extinct pretty quickly if their followers actually followed that. Case in point: the Shakers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakers)
- mejutoco 5y ago
  I realize you didn’t talk explicitely of catholicism but at least in catholicism there is a strong control of sex: priests make vows of celibacy, sex is seen only as a means for reproduction, and there is literature on using exercise (if not worse) to put off sex. Lots of practices of christianity have masoquism undertones (original sin, some rituals). Of course this does not mean everyday christians share this interpretation, but historically I believe it correct to say the Catholic church is not pro-sex.
  - mensetmanusman 5y ago
    It’s important to realize that Catholicism as practiced by a given culture is influenced by prevailing beliefs. The puritan(ical) genesis of the United States has resulted in a mostly Protestant practice of Catholicism in the U.S. (polls of US Catholics show that over half diverge with Catholic teachings). Catholicism in my experience is very pro-sex, and many teachings are dedicated to it: https://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae.html https://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en/encyclicals/docume...

sandgiant 5y ago

Thank you for bringing this up. This is an important distinction. I'm totally with you until the sentence that includes "find their true love". This sounds like there is a very particular kind of love (the true kind) and perhaps also a particular person that is the true "love of your life", and both need to somehow be "found". I'm not trying to be pedantic, but genuinely curious as to whether you have thought on this as well, as I find the first part of your post quite illuminating.

adriand 5y ago

> Let me explain: the headline mentions "eros" for love, which is one of several (Greek) words for love, but focusing on physical erotics (lust). Did you read the article? I feel like you wrote your comment to demonstrate your grasp of Greek vocabulary, not because you had a meaningful response to the author of this post — a post which is quite nuanced and interesting and, I might add, not at all focused on lust.