14 ms·

Research helps explain how Ritalin sharpens attention

93 points by laurex 4y ago

SemanticStrengh 4y ago
A very under-researched subject is the effect of stimulants on the cerebellum dopaminergic neurons. And conversely, the impact of the cerebellum in ADHD. BTW ADHD drugs are extremely interesting philosophically speaking since they generally work in mammals and involve more or less the same regions and deficits than in humans despite the outcome being an impact on higher order cognitive functions such as the subjective state of eugeroytidue and the allocation of attention ~= the allocation of consciousness. Despite the common yet ungrounded belief of non-human attention/consciousness being significantly different.
- d0mine 4y ago
  Evolution reuses parts, a lot. For example, serotonin has some effect on crabs too--it doesn't mean the function is the same as in humans or that psychotherapy for crabs is a good idea.
  - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
    You miss the point, here the function is the same and rodents on adderall have a better quality of life or at least better attention.
    - tsol 4y ago
      And how do you know a rat has better quality of life? Attention sure, but that isn't necessarily indicative of higher brain function. I believe when you're not paying attention to anything the DMN(default mode network) is active, which doesn't mean very much.
    - emteycz 4y ago
      I'm not sure how many people on amphetamine you've seen but it's a group not generally known for the quality of life they enjoy. Edit to reply because of comment limit: Perhaps I misunderstood, but this example of rats on amphetamine doesn't say anything about any genetic defects.
      - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
        ah yes almagaming people with recreational abuse from people with life changing medication that address genetic deficits. This is because of people like you adderall is not prescribed in many european countries.
        emteycz 4y ago
        I'm definitely not that reason as I'm one of the more loud supporters of it in my country. But this connection with the rat experiment is not something you want to use as an example of the benefits. The experiment shows that animals would rather absolutely destroy themselves than live without it, and they deteriorate during the experiment a lot too.
      - samtho 4y ago
        > I'm not sure how many people on amphetamine you've seen but it's a group not generally known for the quality of life they enjoy. I’m betting you may know more people who take amphetamine in therapeutic doses than you think - assuming it or other medications that break down into amphetamine (vyvance) are legal to prescribe where you live. Methamphetamine is similar but very different in bioavailability and minimum effective dose (“methylation” is interesting but not relevant to go into here). It is largely believed that the ill effects of meth is primarily due to the garbage they cut it with before being sold on the street. Amphetamine is tolerated exceptionally well and is very safe at therapeutic doses and has been used as such for 80-some years. If there were major issues identified with it, we would have seen late night TV advertisements from law offices promising to get you a settlement if you or someone you know has used it. The truth is, this is one of the most effective medications we have in modern medicine with 70% of patients reporting major improvement to their lives when on the correct dose. The fact that it’s in schedule II in the US is a travesty given how many hoops one must jump through every month just to get a script filled especially considering it very effectively treats a disorder that makes following through with that stuff difficult.
        SemanticStrengh 4y ago
        Do you know wether methamph and methylphenidate as act pharmacologically relevant methyl donors, like SAM-e?
- NavinF 4y ago
  > eugeroytidue If the SERP is to be trusted, this page is the only one on the internet that uses this word. I assume it has something to do with "eugeroic" (wakefulness-promoting drugs). Anyway I find most discussions about consciousness to be rather boring since everyone has their own wishy-washy definition of it. Stuff that’s philosophically interesting to one person will be trivial to others.
  - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
    yes eugeroytude is a grammatically valid inflection (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflection) of the base form eugeroic. I frequently create unique on the internet inflections, which is very disappointing. And no it's not an empty philosophical discussion, it litterally means higher cognitive functions have more or less the same locations between a human and a rodent which is a strong signal for us being not that different. If you wanna see an interesting discussion on consciousness with a concrete no-bullshit example, see the end of my comment here: (where btw I use another unique on HN word) https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&page=0&prefix=false&query=mono-hemispheric&sort=byPopularity&type=all https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&page=0&prefix=fa...
    - pc86 4y ago
      > I frequently create unique on the internet inflections, which is very disappointing. [sic] You should probably focus more on getting your point across clearly and succinctly than creating new words which will cause the vast majority of people to either try to derive from context, with mixed success, or just ignore your comment completely.
      - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
        semantic accuracy matter more than accessibility, especially in a world where espitemology is not taught. But yeah I agree for this specific instance.
        4y ago
- fao_ 4y ago
  Congratulations! You are the only person to have ever used the word "eugeroytidue" :)
  - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
    yes but I made a typo :/ the correct writing would be eugeroytude, still unique though
    - msrenee 4y ago
      Being as the word doesn't appear to exist outside your construction of it, it may have been clearer if you had called it "eugeroic-ness" or something. That would have made it clear it was a construction for lack of an accepted adjective form and would have been much easier for me to parse out. On top of the accidental swapped letters, the "i" being exchanged for a "y" made it harder for me to recognize.
      - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
        You are right.
- thriftwy 4y ago
  > Despite the common yet ungrounded belief of non-human attention/consciousness being significantly different. I think that's the local phenomenon of the USA. We hear from the American sources sometimes even that animals are supposedly lacking self-awareness. Whereas anybody who owned a cat or a dog (and not from the USA) is pretty sure that ain't true.
  - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
    I wish toxoplasmogondi contamined more people already..
valec 4y ago
I'd be curious about the effectiveness of atypical stimulants such as bromantane in treating ADHD. Unlike methylphenidate or amphetamine, they don't directly inhibit reuptake or induce reverse transport of dopamine but instead upregulates transcription of enzymes responsible for the production of dopamine in the CNS. Or even weak but selective DRIs like modafinil.
- krono 4y ago
  Anecdote warning: Tried modafinil couple of times before I was diagnosed with ADHD (automedication, baby). Whilst it did unlock some of that focus I've since been getting out of my methylphenidate regimen, it did not provide me the motivation or willpower to actually get started on something. It made me just sit still doing absolutely nothing for hours, not even really thinking about getting started on the tasks I was intending it to help me out with. Of course the dosage was my own guestimate, and this modafinil wasn't exactly sourced through a conventional route either, but that was my experience.
  - emptysongglass 4y ago
    Conversely, modafinil taken as prescribed (as opposed to when-needed) transformed my life from an unproductive self-hating person for 15 plus years to a well-paid SRE within the span of a few short years. I actually needed to take less modafinil (down to 50 mg a day) to be efficaceous at work and emotionally balanced. I have recently discovered grapefruit extract transforms the experience so I am now a productive machine. Sadly, armodafinil is not available in Denmark.
    - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
      Armodafinil ships to denmark https://europechemist.com https://europechemist.com + /product/german-waklert/ I don't know if its legal there nor how much the customs let go. The reason your grapefruit extract potentiate the dose is not different from e.g. piperine. This is a mild CYP P 450 inhibitor and therefore increase the production of a drug for a same initial dose, in the liver. Grappefruit juice can be lethal with some drugs actually. The interesting question is: Is your modafinil 50mg + ??mg of grapefruit extract better than modafinil 100-200-300mg alone? I don't see how or why but please share your precise experience.
tonguez 4y ago
"By comparing how neurons act when the brain is in different states — such as when a subject has taken a drug versus when they haven’t — researchers can create more complete and useful models of how brain cells and behavior are linked." this reads like it was written for toddlers. "Did you know that sometimes we test drugs in things called experiments?" Wow that's incredible. also the study doesn't explain how ritalin "works" (is "attention" something that can be dull? or sharp?). it says "We discovered that orally administered methylphenidate... increases spatially selective visual attention" how you go from that to "Research helps explain how Ritalin sharpens attention". come on guys
- _Microft 4y ago
  This is not the study. It is an article talking about the research. It contains a link to the scientific paper (here it is: https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2120529119 https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2120529119 ) which unfortunately is not open access. The abstract is accessible, though (abstracts are short summaries with the most important information about the work). Edit: this seems to be an earlier pre-print: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/354631823_Methylphenidate_as_a_causal_test_of_translational_and_basic_neural_coding_hypotheses/fulltext/61435a8bb5bdf5148e2826b7/Methylphenidate-as-a-causal-test-of-translational-and-basic-neural-coding-hypotheses.pdf?origin=publication_detail https://www.researchgate.net/publication/354631823_Methylphe...
- imwillofficial 4y ago
  Are you ok?
ivanviso 4y ago
Ritalin may be both dextroanphetamine or methylphenidate. Depending on where it is comersialized. It would have been a good choice to include the compound in the title
- shawnz 4y ago
  Are you sure about that? I have only heard of Ritalin being a brand name for methylphenidate, where in the world does it refer to amphetamine?
- jokowueu 4y ago
  I've never heard of this .Ritalin is methylphenidate. Do you have any sources ?
- SemanticStrengh 4y ago
  There are no way this statement is true
- joshmarinacci 4y ago
  Are you sure? Maybe dext- is Aderall? I take Ritalin and it’s always methyl-
- joshmarinacci 4y ago
  I looked it up. https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/ritalin-adderall-difference https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/ritalin-adderall-difference
- Gwarzo 4y ago
  Took Ritalin/Concerta most of my life, this is very wrong. Ritalin is Methylphenidate and only Methylphenidate. Variables are dosage in MG, XR or IR.
bhouston 4y ago
1 in 5 us adults take Ritalin? That seems incredibly high? And 1 in 11 children? This also seems super high. Edit, it seems that only a few millions have prescriptions so way less than quoted in the article: https://clincalc.com/DrugStats/Drugs/Methylphenidate https://clincalc.com/DrugStats/Drugs/Methylphenidate
- fao_ 4y ago
  "Takes Ritalin" and "Has a prescription for Ritalin" are two different things. A friend at Uni in the US said they had to get a locked box for their ADHD meds because otherwise they would just have been stolen -- and that was at a relatively prestigious University.
  - rco8786 4y ago
    My assumption is that usage would be higher at more prestigious universities
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - amelius 4y ago
      There's this joke about mathematicians turning coffee into proofs, but it might as well be about Ritalin.
      - pizza 4y ago
        Erdös first did mathematics at the age of three, but for the last twenty-five years of his life, since the death of this mother, he put in nineteen-hour days, keeping himself fortified with 10 to 20 milligrams of Benzedrine or Ritalin, strong espresso, and caffeine tablets. ___ "A mathematician," Erdös was fond of saying, "is a machine for tuning coffee into theorems." When friends urged him to slow down, he always had the same response: "There'll be plenty of time to rest in the grave." ___ Erdős's friends worried about his drug use, and in 1979 Graham bet Erdős $500 that he couldn't stop taking amphetamines for a month. Erdős accepted, and went cold turkey for a complete month. Erdős's comment at the end of the month was "You've showed me I'm not an addict. But I didn't get any work done. http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2012/08/erdos-and-amphetamines-check.html http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2012/08/erdos-and-amphetami...
ge96 4y ago
I don't know if "you feel good" you don't have ADHD. But when I had it (Adderall), I was able to sit down for 12 hours straight and learn 6 months of work to take a test, it was great but unsustainable. Also the... can't think of the word, the potency wears off have to have higher dosage/consistent eg. a prescription. Other variants too ex. Focaline Side note: I still ended up failing out of school so something like this only gets you so far vs. consistent dedication.
- dylan604 4y ago
  >can't think of the word, I believe the word you are searching for is tolerance
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
russellbeattie 4y ago
> ...we took these drugs, mixed them in fruit juice and gave them to the animals That's interesting. I avoid orange juice because it severely reduces - if not outright destroys - the effects of my Adderall prescription. I think it's because of the acidity, as taking some Tums with the pills can increase their effects. I wonder if Ritalin is substantially different or if the researchers knew about this?
- lfowles 4y ago
  I think citrus heavy juices have those adverse effects on medication (esp. grapefruit[0]), but they probably used a different juice. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapefruit%E2%80%93drug_interactions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapefruit%E2%80%93drug_intera...
  - astrange 4y ago
    All acidic foods cancel out amphetamine, and they're even worse for Vyvanse because of what it uses to delay release. Similarly, alkaline foods make it more effective. It's not a reaction in the liver like how grapefruit interacts with other drugs.
    - lfowles 4y ago
      Oh, I've never heard that! I might have to make some diet changes now... At least for breakfast/lunch
cameronh90 4y ago
An incredible number of people seem to have ADHD now, and the number of people being diagnosed lately (particularly young adults) seems to have shot up. Is it really possible that this many people are ill, or is society expecting impossible things from people and ADHD-like symptoms are the consequence. Or is it something else? I'm not trying to diminish the people who have been diagnosed with ADHD and I don't doubt the medication can be extremely helpful. I'm just wondering how so many people can have this disorder before we stop considering it a disorder. Certainly I don't have any ADHD diagnosis but a lot of the symptoms resonate with me. Alternatively, are we seeing early stage transhumanism? It stands to reason we're not particularly well adapted to modern society and maybe this is the beginning of adjusting our chemistry to be better suited to it (or was that caffeine?).
- belugacat 4y ago
  There’s an argument that goes as follows: in a hunter/gatherer context, ADHD is beneficial because the natural world is so rich, an attention flitting around looking out for a potential prey hiding quietly in the trees, berries nestled in leaves, a predator that might lurk behind, etc… would be a good thing. In a world where kids are expected to sit their butt on a chair 8 hours a day listening to a burnt out adult babble incessantly, not so much.
  - elcritch 4y ago
    In one article I read lately the author called the neural typical world “dopamine addicts”. As in modern societies favor humans who get dopamine from “following rituals”. At first I thought it was a bit absurd sounding, but it stuck in my brain and is a fascinating way of looking at the rise of ancient agricultural societies. As in agricultural societies required following “rituals” of various types (when to plant, when to harvest) and therefore favored genetics that give dopamine based on following them without immediate understanding why they were. ADHD is then a set that of trait that persists in those societies to provide certain levels of novelty/progress (i.e. that stubborn ~5% ADHD across most all modern societies). My hypothesis is that it’d be near a game theory optimum. That optimum is now shifting in multiple ways, almost becoming more U shaped where extremes are more favorable.
cowpig 4y ago
Am I missing something? There didn't seem to be any substantive statement or claim in this article besides the dubious, citation-free statistics about ritalin use in the opening. Why is this on the front page of HN?
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  No, you hit the nail on the head. There are probably many people who frequent HN that have ADHD which drives up the arrows. But this is the study: https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2120529119 https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2120529119 I think it was written by AI, but basically they are saying that the eyes may be the key to linking the science of ADHD with the treatments. It's kind of boring. "Our findings demonstrate that the visual system is a platform for understanding the neural underpinnings of both complex cognitive processes (basic science) and neuropsychiatric disorders (translation). Addressing basic science hypotheses, our results are consistent with a scenario in which methylphenidate has cognitively specific effects by working through naturally selective cognitive mechanisms. Clinically, our findings suggest that the often staggeringly specific symptoms of neuropsychiatric disorders may be caused and treated by leveraging general mechanisms."
d--b 4y ago
> Around one in 11 children in the U.S. are prescribed stimulants like methylphenidate (also known by its brand name Ritalin) Something is seriously wrong with the US. If 10% of children have a hard time concentrate in school, it’s not a child problem, it’s a school problem. If 10% of children are diagnosed with a disorder, it’s not a psychological problem, it’s a problem with the disorder’s definition. Stop giving amphetamines to your kids ffs…
- liamwire 4y ago
  Your point notwithstanding, methylphenidate isn’t an amphetamine.
- true_religion 4y ago
  What if 10% of children are afflicted by a mental condition because of pollutants, or other problems of modern life? Is it okay to medicate then so that they won't be have substandard lives compared to 90% of children?
  - meekmind 4y ago
    If the prescription of stimulants is strictly due to pollutants or "other problems of modern life" then why are boys over-represented compared to girls? "6.4 MILLION CHILDREN BETWEEN THE AGES OF FOUR AND SEVENTEEN HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH ADHD. BY HIGH SCHOOL, NEARLY 20% OF ALL BOYS WILL HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH ADHD—A 37% INCREASE SINCE 2003" [0] (CAPS are from article) "The number of children who have been diagnosed with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder—overwhelmingly boys—in the United States has climbed at an astonishing rate over a relatively short period of time." [0] It is well-known that boys and girls have different tendencies when learning. Boys tend to be tactile/kinesthetic learners, compared to girls who do better with visual/auditory learning. For example, consider how you would teach a child to build a house. A boy would learn the process better by actually building a house, whereas a girl would do better reading about construction methods or seeing blueprints (on average). I am inclined to to agree with GP and that it is schools. When faced with the aforementioned learning styles: parents, teachers, and administrators struggle to accommodate boys and instead opt to medicate them. It's easier to drug boys when they have difficulties for lack of tactile/kinesthetic learning options. I will admit that pollutants and the flood of instantly-gratifying entertainment, movies, TV shows, music videos, and porn is not helpful. However, I don't think that is the most fundamental problem. I simply see an educational system that caters to girls at the expense of boys. Further, the boys are confronted by media that portrays them as "skirt-chasers", "metro-sexuals", and "macho-men" and not the "good-hearted, hard-working, and self-sacrificing just trying to take care of their friends and families" men that they really (often) become. [1] [0] - https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a32858/drugging-of-the-american-boy-0414/ https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a32858/drugging-of-the... [1] - https://www.forbes.com/sites/meghancasserly/2012/11/14/are-men-the-latest-victims-of-media-misrepresentation/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/meghancasserly/2012/11/14/are-m...
mr_beans 4y ago
You can tell who is on stimulants in the comments here by the length of their comments.
- Jensson 4y ago
  Short comments -> stimulants, since you procrastinate less?
  - tsol 4y ago
    People on stimulants tend to write extremely long detailed posts

93 points by laurex 4y ago

A very under-researched subject is the effect of stimulants on the cerebellum dopaminergic neurons. And conversely, the impact of the cerebellum in ADHD. BTW ADHD drugs are extremely interesting philosophically speaking since they generally work in mammals and involve more or less the same regions and deficits than in humans despite the outcome being an impact on higher order cognitive functions such as the subjective state of eugeroytidue and the allocation of attention ~= the allocation of consciousness. Despite the common yet ungrounded belief of non-human attention/consciousness being significantly different.

d0mine 4y ago
Evolution reuses parts, a lot. For example, serotonin has some effect on crabs too--it doesn't mean the function is the same as in humans or that psychotherapy for crabs is a good idea.
- SemanticStrengh 4y ago
  You miss the point, here the function is the same and rodents on adderall have a better quality of life or at least better attention.
  - tsol 4y ago
    And how do you know a rat has better quality of life? Attention sure, but that isn't necessarily indicative of higher brain function. I believe when you're not paying attention to anything the DMN(default mode network) is active, which doesn't mean very much.
  - emteycz 4y ago
    I'm not sure how many people on amphetamine you've seen but it's a group not generally known for the quality of life they enjoy. Edit to reply because of comment limit: Perhaps I misunderstood, but this example of rats on amphetamine doesn't say anything about any genetic defects.
    - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
      ah yes almagaming people with recreational abuse from people with life changing medication that address genetic deficits. This is because of people like you adderall is not prescribed in many european countries.
      - emteycz 4y ago
        I'm definitely not that reason as I'm one of the more loud supporters of it in my country. But this connection with the rat experiment is not something you want to use as an example of the benefits. The experiment shows that animals would rather absolutely destroy themselves than live without it, and they deteriorate during the experiment a lot too.
    - samtho 4y ago
      > I'm not sure how many people on amphetamine you've seen but it's a group not generally known for the quality of life they enjoy. I’m betting you may know more people who take amphetamine in therapeutic doses than you think - assuming it or other medications that break down into amphetamine (vyvance) are legal to prescribe where you live. Methamphetamine is similar but very different in bioavailability and minimum effective dose (“methylation” is interesting but not relevant to go into here). It is largely believed that the ill effects of meth is primarily due to the garbage they cut it with before being sold on the street. Amphetamine is tolerated exceptionally well and is very safe at therapeutic doses and has been used as such for 80-some years. If there were major issues identified with it, we would have seen late night TV advertisements from law offices promising to get you a settlement if you or someone you know has used it. The truth is, this is one of the most effective medications we have in modern medicine with 70% of patients reporting major improvement to their lives when on the correct dose. The fact that it’s in schedule II in the US is a travesty given how many hoops one must jump through every month just to get a script filled especially considering it very effectively treats a disorder that makes following through with that stuff difficult.
      - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
        Do you know wether methamph and methylphenidate as act pharmacologically relevant methyl donors, like SAM-e?
NavinF 4y ago
> eugeroytidue If the SERP is to be trusted, this page is the only one on the internet that uses this word. I assume it has something to do with "eugeroic" (wakefulness-promoting drugs). Anyway I find most discussions about consciousness to be rather boring since everyone has their own wishy-washy definition of it. Stuff that’s philosophically interesting to one person will be trivial to others.
- SemanticStrengh 4y ago
  yes eugeroytude is a grammatically valid inflection (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflection) of the base form eugeroic. I frequently create unique on the internet inflections, which is very disappointing. And no it's not an empty philosophical discussion, it litterally means higher cognitive functions have more or less the same locations between a human and a rodent which is a strong signal for us being not that different. If you wanna see an interesting discussion on consciousness with a concrete no-bullshit example, see the end of my comment here: (where btw I use another unique on HN word) https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&page=0&prefix=false&query=mono-hemispheric&sort=byPopularity&type=all https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&page=0&prefix=fa...
  - pc86 4y ago
    > I frequently create unique on the internet inflections, which is very disappointing. [sic] You should probably focus more on getting your point across clearly and succinctly than creating new words which will cause the vast majority of people to either try to derive from context, with mixed success, or just ignore your comment completely.
    - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
      semantic accuracy matter more than accessibility, especially in a world where espitemology is not taught. But yeah I agree for this specific instance.
      - 4y ago
fao_ 4y ago
Congratulations! You are the only person to have ever used the word "eugeroytidue" :)
- SemanticStrengh 4y ago
  yes but I made a typo :/ the correct writing would be eugeroytude, still unique though
  - msrenee 4y ago
    Being as the word doesn't appear to exist outside your construction of it, it may have been clearer if you had called it "eugeroic-ness" or something. That would have made it clear it was a construction for lack of an accepted adjective form and would have been much easier for me to parse out. On top of the accidental swapped letters, the "i" being exchanged for a "y" made it harder for me to recognize.
    - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
      You are right.
thriftwy 4y ago
> Despite the common yet ungrounded belief of non-human attention/consciousness being significantly different. I think that's the local phenomenon of the USA. We hear from the American sources sometimes even that animals are supposedly lacking self-awareness. Whereas anybody who owned a cat or a dog (and not from the USA) is pretty sure that ain't true.
- SemanticStrengh 4y ago
  I wish toxoplasmogondi contamined more people already..

valec 4y ago

I'd be curious about the effectiveness of atypical stimulants such as bromantane in treating ADHD. Unlike methylphenidate or amphetamine, they don't directly inhibit reuptake or induce reverse transport of dopamine but instead upregulates transcription of enzymes responsible for the production of dopamine in the CNS. Or even weak but selective DRIs like modafinil.

krono 4y ago
Anecdote warning: Tried modafinil couple of times before I was diagnosed with ADHD (automedication, baby). Whilst it did unlock some of that focus I've since been getting out of my methylphenidate regimen, it did not provide me the motivation or willpower to actually get started on something. It made me just sit still doing absolutely nothing for hours, not even really thinking about getting started on the tasks I was intending it to help me out with. Of course the dosage was my own guestimate, and this modafinil wasn't exactly sourced through a conventional route either, but that was my experience.
- emptysongglass 4y ago
  Conversely, modafinil taken as prescribed (as opposed to when-needed) transformed my life from an unproductive self-hating person for 15 plus years to a well-paid SRE within the span of a few short years. I actually needed to take less modafinil (down to 50 mg a day) to be efficaceous at work and emotionally balanced. I have recently discovered grapefruit extract transforms the experience so I am now a productive machine. Sadly, armodafinil is not available in Denmark.
  - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
    Armodafinil ships to denmark https://europechemist.com https://europechemist.com + /product/german-waklert/ I don't know if its legal there nor how much the customs let go. The reason your grapefruit extract potentiate the dose is not different from e.g. piperine. This is a mild CYP P 450 inhibitor and therefore increase the production of a drug for a same initial dose, in the liver. Grappefruit juice can be lethal with some drugs actually. The interesting question is: Is your modafinil 50mg + ??mg of grapefruit extract better than modafinil 100-200-300mg alone? I don't see how or why but please share your precise experience.

tonguez 4y ago

"By comparing how neurons act when the brain is in different states — such as when a subject has taken a drug versus when they haven’t — researchers can create more complete and useful models of how brain cells and behavior are linked." this reads like it was written for toddlers. "Did you know that sometimes we test drugs in things called experiments?" Wow that's incredible. also the study doesn't explain how ritalin "works" (is "attention" something that can be dull? or sharp?). it says "We discovered that orally administered methylphenidate... increases spatially selective visual attention" how you go from that to "Research helps explain how Ritalin sharpens attention". come on guys

_Microft 4y ago
This is not the study. It is an article talking about the research. It contains a link to the scientific paper (here it is: https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2120529119 https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2120529119 ) which unfortunately is not open access. The abstract is accessible, though (abstracts are short summaries with the most important information about the work). Edit: this seems to be an earlier pre-print: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/354631823_Methylphenidate_as_a_causal_test_of_translational_and_basic_neural_coding_hypotheses/fulltext/61435a8bb5bdf5148e2826b7/Methylphenidate-as-a-causal-test-of-translational-and-basic-neural-coding-hypotheses.pdf?origin=publication_detail https://www.researchgate.net/publication/354631823_Methylphe...
imwillofficial 4y ago
Are you ok?

ivanviso 4y ago

Ritalin may be both dextroanphetamine or methylphenidate. Depending on where it is comersialized. It would have been a good choice to include the compound in the title

shawnz 4y ago
Are you sure about that? I have only heard of Ritalin being a brand name for methylphenidate, where in the world does it refer to amphetamine?
jokowueu 4y ago
I've never heard of this .Ritalin is methylphenidate. Do you have any sources ?
SemanticStrengh 4y ago
There are no way this statement is true
joshmarinacci 4y ago
Are you sure? Maybe dext- is Aderall? I take Ritalin and it’s always methyl-
joshmarinacci 4y ago
I looked it up. https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/ritalin-adderall-difference https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/ritalin-adderall-difference
Gwarzo 4y ago
Took Ritalin/Concerta most of my life, this is very wrong. Ritalin is Methylphenidate and only Methylphenidate. Variables are dosage in MG, XR or IR.

bhouston 4y ago

1 in 5 us adults take Ritalin? That seems incredibly high? And 1 in 11 children? This also seems super high. Edit, it seems that only a few millions have prescriptions so way less than quoted in the article: https://clincalc.com/DrugStats/Drugs/Methylphenidate https://clincalc.com/DrugStats/Drugs/Methylphenidate

fao_ 4y ago
"Takes Ritalin" and "Has a prescription for Ritalin" are two different things. A friend at Uni in the US said they had to get a locked box for their ADHD meds because otherwise they would just have been stolen -- and that was at a relatively prestigious University.
- rco8786 4y ago
  My assumption is that usage would be higher at more prestigious universities
  - deleted 4y ago
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  - amelius 4y ago
    There's this joke about mathematicians turning coffee into proofs, but it might as well be about Ritalin.
    - pizza 4y ago
      Erdös first did mathematics at the age of three, but for the last twenty-five years of his life, since the death of this mother, he put in nineteen-hour days, keeping himself fortified with 10 to 20 milligrams of Benzedrine or Ritalin, strong espresso, and caffeine tablets. ___ "A mathematician," Erdös was fond of saying, "is a machine for tuning coffee into theorems." When friends urged him to slow down, he always had the same response: "There'll be plenty of time to rest in the grave." ___ Erdős's friends worried about his drug use, and in 1979 Graham bet Erdős $500 that he couldn't stop taking amphetamines for a month. Erdős accepted, and went cold turkey for a complete month. Erdős's comment at the end of the month was "You've showed me I'm not an addict. But I didn't get any work done. http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2012/08/erdos-and-amphetamines-check.html http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2012/08/erdos-and-amphetami...

ge96 4y ago

I don't know if "you feel good" you don't have ADHD. But when I had it (Adderall), I was able to sit down for 12 hours straight and learn 6 months of work to take a test, it was great but unsustainable. Also the... can't think of the word, the potency wears off have to have higher dosage/consistent eg. a prescription. Other variants too ex. Focaline Side note: I still ended up failing out of school so something like this only gets you so far vs. consistent dedication.

dylan604 4y ago
>can't think of the word, I believe the word you are searching for is tolerance

deleted 4y ago

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russellbeattie 4y ago

> ...we took these drugs, mixed them in fruit juice and gave them to the animals That's interesting. I avoid orange juice because it severely reduces - if not outright destroys - the effects of my Adderall prescription. I think it's because of the acidity, as taking some Tums with the pills can increase their effects. I wonder if Ritalin is substantially different or if the researchers knew about this?

lfowles 4y ago
I think citrus heavy juices have those adverse effects on medication (esp. grapefruit[0]), but they probably used a different juice. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapefruit%E2%80%93drug_interactions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapefruit%E2%80%93drug_intera...
- astrange 4y ago
  All acidic foods cancel out amphetamine, and they're even worse for Vyvanse because of what it uses to delay release. Similarly, alkaline foods make it more effective. It's not a reaction in the liver like how grapefruit interacts with other drugs.
  - lfowles 4y ago
    Oh, I've never heard that! I might have to make some diet changes now... At least for breakfast/lunch

cameronh90 4y ago

An incredible number of people seem to have ADHD now, and the number of people being diagnosed lately (particularly young adults) seems to have shot up. Is it really possible that this many people are ill, or is society expecting impossible things from people and ADHD-like symptoms are the consequence. Or is it something else? I'm not trying to diminish the people who have been diagnosed with ADHD and I don't doubt the medication can be extremely helpful. I'm just wondering how so many people can have this disorder before we stop considering it a disorder. Certainly I don't have any ADHD diagnosis but a lot of the symptoms resonate with me. Alternatively, are we seeing early stage transhumanism? It stands to reason we're not particularly well adapted to modern society and maybe this is the beginning of adjusting our chemistry to be better suited to it (or was that caffeine?).

belugacat 4y ago
There’s an argument that goes as follows: in a hunter/gatherer context, ADHD is beneficial because the natural world is so rich, an attention flitting around looking out for a potential prey hiding quietly in the trees, berries nestled in leaves, a predator that might lurk behind, etc… would be a good thing. In a world where kids are expected to sit their butt on a chair 8 hours a day listening to a burnt out adult babble incessantly, not so much.
- elcritch 4y ago
  In one article I read lately the author called the neural typical world “dopamine addicts”. As in modern societies favor humans who get dopamine from “following rituals”. At first I thought it was a bit absurd sounding, but it stuck in my brain and is a fascinating way of looking at the rise of ancient agricultural societies. As in agricultural societies required following “rituals” of various types (when to plant, when to harvest) and therefore favored genetics that give dopamine based on following them without immediate understanding why they were. ADHD is then a set that of trait that persists in those societies to provide certain levels of novelty/progress (i.e. that stubborn ~5% ADHD across most all modern societies). My hypothesis is that it’d be near a game theory optimum. That optimum is now shifting in multiple ways, almost becoming more U shaped where extremes are more favorable.

cowpig 4y ago

Am I missing something? There didn't seem to be any substantive statement or claim in this article besides the dubious, citation-free statistics about ritalin use in the opening. Why is this on the front page of HN?

FollowingTheDao 4y ago
No, you hit the nail on the head. There are probably many people who frequent HN that have ADHD which drives up the arrows. But this is the study: https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2120529119 https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2120529119 I think it was written by AI, but basically they are saying that the eyes may be the key to linking the science of ADHD with the treatments. It's kind of boring. "Our findings demonstrate that the visual system is a platform for understanding the neural underpinnings of both complex cognitive processes (basic science) and neuropsychiatric disorders (translation). Addressing basic science hypotheses, our results are consistent with a scenario in which methylphenidate has cognitively specific effects by working through naturally selective cognitive mechanisms. Clinically, our findings suggest that the often staggeringly specific symptoms of neuropsychiatric disorders may be caused and treated by leveraging general mechanisms."

d--b 4y ago

> Around one in 11 children in the U.S. are prescribed stimulants like methylphenidate (also known by its brand name Ritalin) Something is seriously wrong with the US. If 10% of children have a hard time concentrate in school, it’s not a child problem, it’s a school problem. If 10% of children are diagnosed with a disorder, it’s not a psychological problem, it’s a problem with the disorder’s definition. Stop giving amphetamines to your kids ffs…

liamwire 4y ago
Your point notwithstanding, methylphenidate isn’t an amphetamine.
true_religion 4y ago
What if 10% of children are afflicted by a mental condition because of pollutants, or other problems of modern life? Is it okay to medicate then so that they won't be have substandard lives compared to 90% of children?
- meekmind 4y ago
  If the prescription of stimulants is strictly due to pollutants or "other problems of modern life" then why are boys over-represented compared to girls? "6.4 MILLION CHILDREN BETWEEN THE AGES OF FOUR AND SEVENTEEN HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH ADHD. BY HIGH SCHOOL, NEARLY 20% OF ALL BOYS WILL HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH ADHD—A 37% INCREASE SINCE 2003" [0] (CAPS are from article) "The number of children who have been diagnosed with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder—overwhelmingly boys—in the United States has climbed at an astonishing rate over a relatively short period of time." [0] It is well-known that boys and girls have different tendencies when learning. Boys tend to be tactile/kinesthetic learners, compared to girls who do better with visual/auditory learning. For example, consider how you would teach a child to build a house. A boy would learn the process better by actually building a house, whereas a girl would do better reading about construction methods or seeing blueprints (on average). I am inclined to to agree with GP and that it is schools. When faced with the aforementioned learning styles: parents, teachers, and administrators struggle to accommodate boys and instead opt to medicate them. It's easier to drug boys when they have difficulties for lack of tactile/kinesthetic learning options. I will admit that pollutants and the flood of instantly-gratifying entertainment, movies, TV shows, music videos, and porn is not helpful. However, I don't think that is the most fundamental problem. I simply see an educational system that caters to girls at the expense of boys. Further, the boys are confronted by media that portrays them as "skirt-chasers", "metro-sexuals", and "macho-men" and not the "good-hearted, hard-working, and self-sacrificing just trying to take care of their friends and families" men that they really (often) become. [1] [0] - https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a32858/drugging-of-the-american-boy-0414/ https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a32858/drugging-of-the... [1] - https://www.forbes.com/sites/meghancasserly/2012/11/14/are-men-the-latest-victims-of-media-misrepresentation/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/meghancasserly/2012/11/14/are-m...

mr_beans 4y ago

You can tell who is on stimulants in the comments here by the length of their comments.

Jensson 4y ago
Short comments -> stimulants, since you procrastinate less?
- tsol 4y ago
  People on stimulants tend to write extremely long detailed posts