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I tend to agree. However, there's one point that makes me skeptical: there are no organizational changes, or changes to leadership, or anything in that directi

I tend to agree. However, there's one point that makes me skeptical: there are no organizational changes, or changes to leadership, or anything in that direction. This sounds like "the tech guys screwed up, culture and management is fine here". Which it might be, or it might not. I would have loved to see 5. We will stop pushing customers so hard towards using our cloud for one, but that wouldn't be convenient for Atlassian.

eastbound 5y ago
Note that the ToS also forbid Cloud users from “disseminating information” about “the performance of the products”. So you can’t say it’s slow or unperforming.
- geerlingguy 5y ago
  I thought, in terms of Jira and Confluence at least, it was just accepted that being slow and underperforming was the status quo and if it was running at a speed you'd consider normal, that's an exception (and cause for alarm... like "did that actually save or is there a silent JS error not being displayed?").
  - Aeolun 5y ago
    Sure, it’d be extremely hard for their cloud offering to be slower than our on-premise installation.
- AceJohnny2 5y ago
  Well that's some Oracle-tier shit. (ref: https://danluu.com/anon-benchmark/ https://danluu.com/anon-benchmark/)
  - imglorp 5y ago
    Not just benchmarks, Oracle also sues (or threatens) security researchers, vendors, and of course customers for less.
- dotopotoro 5y ago
  Is that real? That is so bad. Queue up next “Shall not disclose or notice our incompetence” clause.
  - doubled112 5y ago
    https://www.atlassian.com/legal/cloud-terms-of-service https://www.atlassian.com/legal/cloud-terms-of-service > 3.3. Restrictions. Except as otherwise expressly permitted in these Terms, you will not: > (i) publicly disseminate information regarding the performance of the Cloud Products; or (j) encourage or assist any third party to do any of the foregoing.
    - ornornor 5y ago
      That should tell you everything you need to know about atlassian as a company and about how good their cloud product is.
  - jpalomaki 5y ago
    I believe these clauses are usually there to prevent competitors from using (sometimes misleading) benchmarks in their advertising. Used to be common to see this kind of comparisons between databased for example.
- lolinder 5y ago
  Link for reference: https://www.atlassian.com/legal/cloud-terms-of-service https://www.atlassian.com/legal/cloud-terms-of-service > Except as otherwise expressly permitted in these Terms, you will not: > ... (i) publicly disseminate information regarding the performance of the Cloud Products;
bradleyjg 5y ago
I wouldn’t expect the larger question of what organizational and management issues lead to the problem in the larger sense to be made public. At least not while the issue is still fresh. Maybe down the road as a business school case study after some of the players retire.
tarsinge 5y ago
By keeping the management you have a chance they learn a lot from that unique experience. Changing leadership would be the PR move.
- sharken 5y ago
  You can change leadership, but if culture is the problem, then you're out of luck.

eastbound 5y ago

Note that the ToS also forbid Cloud users from “disseminating information” about “the performance of the products”. So you can’t say it’s slow or unperforming.

geerlingguy 5y ago
I thought, in terms of Jira and Confluence at least, it was just accepted that being slow and underperforming was the status quo and if it was running at a speed you'd consider normal, that's an exception (and cause for alarm... like "did that actually save or is there a silent JS error not being displayed?").
- Aeolun 5y ago
  Sure, it’d be extremely hard for their cloud offering to be slower than our on-premise installation.
AceJohnny2 5y ago
Well that's some Oracle-tier shit. (ref: https://danluu.com/anon-benchmark/ https://danluu.com/anon-benchmark/)
- imglorp 5y ago
  Not just benchmarks, Oracle also sues (or threatens) security researchers, vendors, and of course customers for less.
dotopotoro 5y ago
Is that real? That is so bad. Queue up next “Shall not disclose or notice our incompetence” clause.
- doubled112 5y ago
  https://www.atlassian.com/legal/cloud-terms-of-service https://www.atlassian.com/legal/cloud-terms-of-service > 3.3. Restrictions. Except as otherwise expressly permitted in these Terms, you will not: > (i) publicly disseminate information regarding the performance of the Cloud Products; or (j) encourage or assist any third party to do any of the foregoing.
  - ornornor 5y ago
    That should tell you everything you need to know about atlassian as a company and about how good their cloud product is.
- jpalomaki 5y ago
  I believe these clauses are usually there to prevent competitors from using (sometimes misleading) benchmarks in their advertising. Used to be common to see this kind of comparisons between databased for example.
lolinder 5y ago
Link for reference: https://www.atlassian.com/legal/cloud-terms-of-service https://www.atlassian.com/legal/cloud-terms-of-service > Except as otherwise expressly permitted in these Terms, you will not: > ... (i) publicly disseminate information regarding the performance of the Cloud Products;

bradleyjg 5y ago

I wouldn’t expect the larger question of what organizational and management issues lead to the problem in the larger sense to be made public. At least not while the issue is still fresh. Maybe down the road as a business school case study after some of the players retire.

tarsinge 5y ago

By keeping the management you have a chance they learn a lot from that unique experience. Changing leadership would be the PR move.

sharken 5y ago
You can change leadership, but if culture is the problem, then you're out of luck.