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The Navy pays officers very generously across all fields, EXCEPT medicine and JAG. URL JOs will take a pay cut for the first several years (at least) after leav

The Navy pays officers very generously across all fields, EXCEPT medicine and JAG. URL JOs will take a pay cut for the first several years (at least) after leaving for the civilian sector. I never, ever heard a URL peer get out because of financial reasons. FWIW, BAH (pay for housing that is tax-free) is $4000 for an O-6 in Point Loma v. $2777 in Offut, NE. Seems to be aggressive adjustment, no? Enlisted pay might be another story… EDIT: I know one guy who griped about pay once…kind of in passing. Went on to be a YC founder haha.

xattt 4y ago
For Medical and JAG, are VA benefits (ie paid long-term care) worth the loss in income over the longer term?
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  You will never know. That is the great thing about “benefits”, the recipient has no control or knowledge. The employer, or politicians, 5, 10, 20 years from now can cut funding and reduce access from MDs to NP/PA, or only cover certain meds, or require excessive prior authorizations to dissuade using the healthcare.
  - yhoneycomb 4y ago
    Exactly this. The VA already is hiring as many midlevels (NP/PA) as possible so that they don't have to hire MDs. You wouldn't believe how low the bar is to become an NP. PAs receive substantially better training, but at the end of the day they are still midlevels. Worse still, many NP programs are now giving out "doctorates" of nursing practice so that NPs can introduce themselves to the patient as "Dr." Smith. In short, the VA is willing to gamble with your life if it means saving a few bucks. It's pretty harrowing.
    - nradov 4y ago
      Is there any evidence that care by midlevels produces worse outcomes for routine cases?
      - yhoneycomb 4y ago
        Plenty. Here is perhaps the most recent: https://www.ama-assn.org/practice-management/scope-practice/amid-doctor-shortage-nps-and-pas-seemed-fix-data-s-nope https://www.ama-assn.org/practice-management/scope-practice/... But of course, nobody cares. The rich will get MDs and the poor will get midlevels.
kodah 4y ago
You can't just look at enlisted pay broadly. You have to look at the troops that earn BAH and those who don't. Both are underpaid, but those who don't get BAH are inundated in very poor base services and are usually on the clock 24/7: https://veteran.com/2022-military-pay-charts/ https://veteran.com/2022-military-pay-charts/ Another point that I haven't seen brought up here is that usually the people who paint ships are school washouts. They couldn't get through school and have no classification, so this is what they do. I wasn't in the Navy but this is always what I heard.
- jwithington 4y ago
  Good point RE: sailors in barracks, who don’t receive BAH. I was a submariner, so I’m not certain who ends up chipping paint on surface ships. Submarines don’t get the people who washed out of schools.
Boritanian 4y ago
>JAG >URL JOs >BAH if only i knew what any of those words mean. Why haven't people learned to describe their abbreviation unless they already pre-established that the audience will definitely know them?
- umvi 4y ago
  Quick googling reveals JAG = Judge Advocate General aka a military lawyer
  - kshacker 4y ago
    If you have seen JAG or NCIS (tv shows), you probably know some of these and with NCIS being a top (broadcast) show for a few years, it is quite likely a lot of (dare I say older) people have heard of these
    - imwillofficial 4y ago
      I was Navy for 5 years and a navy contractor for 10 and I’ve never seen URL in my life. (Besides, you know, the web meaning)
    - Sebb767 4y ago
      Only ~30% of people on HN are from the US and I'd assume that the number of non-US people who watched NCIS in the original language are comparatively low.
      - password4321 4y ago
        > Only ~30% of people on HN are from the US Does anyone have time to cite a source for this? I was thinking this number was a lot higher.
        Sebb767 4y ago
        Sure! There are no definitive numbers, but we have a few data points: Dang mentions quite often that HN has a very international readership, for example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23363430 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23363430 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23438403 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23438403 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27052434 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27052434 An old poll with 32% US (probably the number I remembered): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13819771 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13819771 There's also a recent poll w/ 47% (2346 of 4891), although this might be timing related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30210378 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30210378
kylehotchkiss 4y ago
$4000 is a (maybe nice?) 2 bedroom apartment in Point Loma at current rates

xattt 4y ago

For Medical and JAG, are VA benefits (ie paid long-term care) worth the loss in income over the longer term?

lotsofpulp 4y ago
You will never know. That is the great thing about “benefits”, the recipient has no control or knowledge. The employer, or politicians, 5, 10, 20 years from now can cut funding and reduce access from MDs to NP/PA, or only cover certain meds, or require excessive prior authorizations to dissuade using the healthcare.
- yhoneycomb 4y ago
  Exactly this. The VA already is hiring as many midlevels (NP/PA) as possible so that they don't have to hire MDs. You wouldn't believe how low the bar is to become an NP. PAs receive substantially better training, but at the end of the day they are still midlevels. Worse still, many NP programs are now giving out "doctorates" of nursing practice so that NPs can introduce themselves to the patient as "Dr." Smith. In short, the VA is willing to gamble with your life if it means saving a few bucks. It's pretty harrowing.
  - nradov 4y ago
    Is there any evidence that care by midlevels produces worse outcomes for routine cases?
    - yhoneycomb 4y ago
      Plenty. Here is perhaps the most recent: https://www.ama-assn.org/practice-management/scope-practice/amid-doctor-shortage-nps-and-pas-seemed-fix-data-s-nope https://www.ama-assn.org/practice-management/scope-practice/... But of course, nobody cares. The rich will get MDs and the poor will get midlevels.

kodah 4y ago

You can't just look at enlisted pay broadly. You have to look at the troops that earn BAH and those who don't. Both are underpaid, but those who don't get BAH are inundated in very poor base services and are usually on the clock 24/7: https://veteran.com/2022-military-pay-charts/ https://veteran.com/2022-military-pay-charts/ Another point that I haven't seen brought up here is that usually the people who paint ships are school washouts. They couldn't get through school and have no classification, so this is what they do. I wasn't in the Navy but this is always what I heard.

jwithington 4y ago
Good point RE: sailors in barracks, who don’t receive BAH. I was a submariner, so I’m not certain who ends up chipping paint on surface ships. Submarines don’t get the people who washed out of schools.

Boritanian 4y ago

>JAG >URL JOs >BAH if only i knew what any of those words mean. Why haven't people learned to describe their abbreviation unless they already pre-established that the audience will definitely know them?

umvi 4y ago
Quick googling reveals JAG = Judge Advocate General aka a military lawyer
- kshacker 4y ago
  If you have seen JAG or NCIS (tv shows), you probably know some of these and with NCIS being a top (broadcast) show for a few years, it is quite likely a lot of (dare I say older) people have heard of these
  - imwillofficial 4y ago
    I was Navy for 5 years and a navy contractor for 10 and I’ve never seen URL in my life. (Besides, you know, the web meaning)
  - Sebb767 4y ago
    Only ~30% of people on HN are from the US and I'd assume that the number of non-US people who watched NCIS in the original language are comparatively low.
    - password4321 4y ago
      > Only ~30% of people on HN are from the US Does anyone have time to cite a source for this? I was thinking this number was a lot higher.
      - Sebb767 4y ago
        Sure! There are no definitive numbers, but we have a few data points: Dang mentions quite often that HN has a very international readership, for example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23363430 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23363430 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23438403 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23438403 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27052434 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27052434 An old poll with 32% US (probably the number I remembered): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13819771 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13819771 There's also a recent poll w/ 47% (2346 of 4891), although this might be timing related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30210378 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30210378

kylehotchkiss 4y ago

$4000 is a (maybe nice?) 2 bedroom apartment in Point Loma at current rates