3 ms·

At least in healthcare, I doubt this is a major causative factor (presuming when you say roles you mean physicians and nurses) -- the physicians are extremely s

At least in healthcare, I doubt this is a major causative factor (presuming when you say roles you mean physicians and nurses) -- the physicians are extremely supportive of the nurses, and their demands for more pay and better conditions in all the healthcare settings I've worked. The real problem is the unaccountable bureaucratic management, which are neither physicians nor nurses, and the numbers of which continue to expand (sucking up financial resources) while physicians and nurses workload increases and pay continues to decrease in real terms.

geogra4 4y ago
I tend to agree with the parent post about the extreme rigidness though causing issues. My wife is an Occupational Therapist and in some states she can supervise showering and some states only nurses can. Some states she can initiate cases and some states she can't. There are too many micro-specialties and not enough crossover. Imagine if once you were a frontend dev you would have to go back to school for 2 years full time to be legally allowed to do ui design of a button even though there is a lot of crossover and knowledge sharing between roles. This definitely causes shortages and issues when the demand naturally rises and falls for various Healthcare disciplines. I'm not saying formal education isn't important but there could be a much more fluid crossover between various allied health disciplines than their is currently. Maybe more transition programs or seeing individual billing codes for Medicare attached to education modules
maxerickson 4y ago
It's driven (or at least exacerbated) by the physician shortage. If it weren't profitable to have large numbers of staff per doctor, there wouldn't be large numbers of staff per doctor.
- nradov 4y ago
  Even if we had more licensed physicians we would still have a large number of staff per doctor. A radiologist might be able to administer contrast to a patient, check their vital signs, transport them to the MRI machine, and run the scan but that's not a good use of a radiologist's time. Better to have nurses, orderlies, and technicians do all that so the radiologist can focus on reading the images.
  - maxerickson 4y ago
    Yes, it's obvious that some level of support staff are a good idea. Now make an argument that the current arrangement is more optimal than the one we might end up with if there were more doctors.
    - nradov 4y ago
      That part is obvious. Regardless of the number of physicians, they will always be the most expensive resources. Thus any procedure which can safely and legally be performed by less expensive resources, should be.
      - maxerickson 4y ago
        That is scarcity thinking.
        nradov 4y ago
        Yes resources will always be scarce and we need to manage accordingly. That is reality.

geogra4 4y ago

I tend to agree with the parent post about the extreme rigidness though causing issues. My wife is an Occupational Therapist and in some states she can supervise showering and some states only nurses can. Some states she can initiate cases and some states she can't. There are too many micro-specialties and not enough crossover. Imagine if once you were a frontend dev you would have to go back to school for 2 years full time to be legally allowed to do ui design of a button even though there is a lot of crossover and knowledge sharing between roles. This definitely causes shortages and issues when the demand naturally rises and falls for various Healthcare disciplines. I'm not saying formal education isn't important but there could be a much more fluid crossover between various allied health disciplines than their is currently. Maybe more transition programs or seeing individual billing codes for Medicare attached to education modules

maxerickson 4y ago

It's driven (or at least exacerbated) by the physician shortage. If it weren't profitable to have large numbers of staff per doctor, there wouldn't be large numbers of staff per doctor.

nradov 4y ago
Even if we had more licensed physicians we would still have a large number of staff per doctor. A radiologist might be able to administer contrast to a patient, check their vital signs, transport them to the MRI machine, and run the scan but that's not a good use of a radiologist's time. Better to have nurses, orderlies, and technicians do all that so the radiologist can focus on reading the images.
- maxerickson 4y ago
  Yes, it's obvious that some level of support staff are a good idea. Now make an argument that the current arrangement is more optimal than the one we might end up with if there were more doctors.
  - nradov 4y ago
    That part is obvious. Regardless of the number of physicians, they will always be the most expensive resources. Thus any procedure which can safely and legally be performed by less expensive resources, should be.
    - maxerickson 4y ago
      That is scarcity thinking.
      - nradov 4y ago
        Yes resources will always be scarce and we need to manage accordingly. That is reality.