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" If crews can’t use new types of paint, If crews are restricted from using OSPHO (a mild acid used to clean up rust stains) in port or bosuns chairs over the s

" If crews can’t use new types of paint, If crews are restricted from using OSPHO (a mild acid used to clean up rust stains) in port or bosuns chairs over the side if we don’t have enough supply ships or crew on those supply ships if crews are committing suicide and arson because of conditions at shipyards tasked with painting old ships if the Navy doesn’t seek out the advice of commercial professionals at companies that have solved the problem like Shell if the Army and Air Force continue to get all the attention in Ukraine despite the heaviest fighting taking place in the littorals and ports – I could go on – how can individual sailors “stand up and be ready” to combat rust?" 1. I hope I'm reading this wrong. I can guarantee Sailors arn't committing suicide, or arson, because of a fugly rusty ship. 2. If their is any real problem it's the way our Navy treats Sailors, and lies to them upon signing that contract, and tries to renig on any lofty promises upon signing. I once heard the Navy will send you to school upon enlisting. Navy, "Become a Lawyer. We pay for it.". This commercial was around that movie with Tom Cruise playing the spiffy lawyer in his whites going up against Jack Nicholson. "You can't handle the truth!". Forget the name. I looked it up. The military at the time was picking up tuition for 8 enlisted men to go to law school. The guys are angry because once they enlisted, it wasen't the opportunity they thought it would be. Period.

CyanBird 4y ago
> 1. I hope I'm reading this wrong. I can guarantee Sailors arn't committing suicide, or arson, because of a fugly rusty ship. Sad to see that HN discussions stow so low so as to not discuss the things the piece actually mentions > The situation is not much better for American shipyards. On the morning of April 11, Captain Brent Gaut, the commander of the USS George Washington — an aircraft carrier undergoing major shipyard work at Newport News, Virginia — got on the ship’s intercom to announce that two sailors had died, and Gaut was alerting the crew that those deaths were the eighth and ninth suicides the ship had experienced in the nine months the ship has been stuck in shipyard. What was the Navy’s response? Gilday’s top enlisted adviser, Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy Russell Smith, told sailors they need to do a better job “managing expectations” then he chastised them by saying “What you’re not doing is sleeping in a foxhole like a Marine.” > This type of “toughen up, stand up” approach sounds eerily familiar to those of us who worked offshore in the years leading up to the Deepwater Horizon catastrophe. > In 2020, while undergoing shipyard repair in San Diego, conditions aboard the USS Bonhomme Richard were so bad a crew member set fire to the ship leading to the ship’s destruction. The responsible crew member was arrested but – despite investigators finding bad morale, delays, and poor training – the ship’s captain (and his chain of command) was left in charge and was allowed to celebrate the decommissioning of the ship he had lost. Please, next time just review the piece
throwanem 4y ago
A Few Good Men. It's a good one.
paganel 4y ago
> Shell if the Army and Air Force continue to get all the attention in Ukraine This is a great point that I started thinking about 2-3 days ago, i.e. that the present war in Ukraine is, almost by definition, a continental war (think Napoleon or the Eastern Campaign in WW2), and, as such, that an organisation like the US Navy might feel like it has been left out (like this quote actually emphasises). At which point it gets tricky when it comes to justify your budget, as in: "why should we assign so much money to the Navy when we're most worried about a continental war?". The "solution" that I saw in my head for this dilemma (from the POV of the Navy) was a re-emphasis on Taiwan and on China, i.e. trying to bring forward (again) the danger that the Chinese pose to Taiwan and to SE-Asia more generally speaking. That's a lot of sea/ocean for the Navy to cover and protect.
- giardini 4y ago
  paganet says>""why should we assign so much money to the Navy when we're most worried about a continental war?"."< Russia values the coastal territory it has grabbed b/c d they can use it to support a navy, something Russia has historically always wanted and needed (to project military power). But they have always done poorly and continue to do so: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-russias-military-is-so-shabby-214049654.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-russias-military-is-so-sh... Thwarting Russia's naval progress is cost-effective since it takes tremendous resources and history to run a navy effectively. Only Great Britain and the USA have been successful at establishing modern multi-ocean navies.
  - bluGill 4y ago
    Russia can't operate the little Navy it has, better bases won't help.
  - paganel 4y ago
    I do think Russia/USSR has focused primarily on the "heartland" [1], they have had some navy power but it looked almost always as an afterthought (their nuclear subs are a special, almost separate, case, they're more nuclear-oriented than sea/ocean-oriented). The US (following Britain) has of course almost been a world power that has focused on the Rimland-like spaces (plus islands like Japan). Having one aircraft carrier or ten-eleven won't make that much of a difference when the battle happens on the steppes of Eurasia (like it is now happening in Donbas), there are only so many such carriers that one can place inside a "small" sea like the Black Sea (assuming that they'll be allowed to pass the Bosphorus). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_J._Spykman#Geostrategic_ideas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_J._Spykman#Geostrateg...

CyanBird 4y ago

> 1. I hope I'm reading this wrong. I can guarantee Sailors arn't committing suicide, or arson, because of a fugly rusty ship. Sad to see that HN discussions stow so low so as to not discuss the things the piece actually mentions > The situation is not much better for American shipyards. On the morning of April 11, Captain Brent Gaut, the commander of the USS George Washington — an aircraft carrier undergoing major shipyard work at Newport News, Virginia — got on the ship’s intercom to announce that two sailors had died, and Gaut was alerting the crew that those deaths were the eighth and ninth suicides the ship had experienced in the nine months the ship has been stuck in shipyard. What was the Navy’s response? Gilday’s top enlisted adviser, Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy Russell Smith, told sailors they need to do a better job “managing expectations” then he chastised them by saying “What you’re not doing is sleeping in a foxhole like a Marine.” > This type of “toughen up, stand up” approach sounds eerily familiar to those of us who worked offshore in the years leading up to the Deepwater Horizon catastrophe. > In 2020, while undergoing shipyard repair in San Diego, conditions aboard the USS Bonhomme Richard were so bad a crew member set fire to the ship leading to the ship’s destruction. The responsible crew member was arrested but – despite investigators finding bad morale, delays, and poor training – the ship’s captain (and his chain of command) was left in charge and was allowed to celebrate the decommissioning of the ship he had lost. Please, next time just review the piece

throwanem 4y ago

A Few Good Men. It's a good one.

paganel 4y ago

> Shell if the Army and Air Force continue to get all the attention in Ukraine This is a great point that I started thinking about 2-3 days ago, i.e. that the present war in Ukraine is, almost by definition, a continental war (think Napoleon or the Eastern Campaign in WW2), and, as such, that an organisation like the US Navy might feel like it has been left out (like this quote actually emphasises). At which point it gets tricky when it comes to justify your budget, as in: "why should we assign so much money to the Navy when we're most worried about a continental war?". The "solution" that I saw in my head for this dilemma (from the POV of the Navy) was a re-emphasis on Taiwan and on China, i.e. trying to bring forward (again) the danger that the Chinese pose to Taiwan and to SE-Asia more generally speaking. That's a lot of sea/ocean for the Navy to cover and protect.

giardini 4y ago
paganet says>""why should we assign so much money to the Navy when we're most worried about a continental war?"."< Russia values the coastal territory it has grabbed b/c d they can use it to support a navy, something Russia has historically always wanted and needed (to project military power). But they have always done poorly and continue to do so: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-russias-military-is-so-shabby-214049654.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-russias-military-is-so-sh... Thwarting Russia's naval progress is cost-effective since it takes tremendous resources and history to run a navy effectively. Only Great Britain and the USA have been successful at establishing modern multi-ocean navies.
- bluGill 4y ago
  Russia can't operate the little Navy it has, better bases won't help.
- paganel 4y ago
  I do think Russia/USSR has focused primarily on the "heartland" [1], they have had some navy power but it looked almost always as an afterthought (their nuclear subs are a special, almost separate, case, they're more nuclear-oriented than sea/ocean-oriented). The US (following Britain) has of course almost been a world power that has focused on the Rimland-like spaces (plus islands like Japan). Having one aircraft carrier or ten-eleven won't make that much of a difference when the battle happens on the steppes of Eurasia (like it is now happening in Donbas), there are only so many such carriers that one can place inside a "small" sea like the Black Sea (assuming that they'll be allowed to pass the Bosphorus). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_J._Spykman#Geostrategic_ideas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_J._Spykman#Geostrateg...