4 ms·

"Hilarious" is not the word I'd use. "Dispiriting", "Irresponsible", "Fucked up". I don't understand why we aren't pouring massive amounts of money into public

by elric 5y ago

"Hilarious" is not the word I'd use. "Dispiriting", "Irresponsible", "Fucked up". I don't understand why we aren't pouring massive amounts of money into public transport. Apparently many people in Western Europe seem to enjoy being stuck in traffic for hours every day. For some reason, company cars are still a thing in Belgium, very nearly everyone working in IT gets one. I can't wrap my head around how stupid this is. Not only does there seem to be no sense of urgency, there doesn't seem to be much interest in doing anything at all..

consp 5y ago
> I can't wrap my head around how stupid this is. Same as in the Netherlands: It's a cost/tax dodge. Looks like you get 500-800 euro/month in car but it actually only costs about 200 to the company and the company doesn't have to pay a significant amount of taxes over it. Scrap that advantage and it will quickly go away.
halfdan 5y ago
Public transport hasn't solved the problem of "the last mile". How do I get to/from the train station/bus stop? Frequently you still need a car to even get there and then you will need parking - which is often limited and costs a lot. Then there's timeliness. Deutsche Bahn is known for frequently their trains are delayed. In summer, even on the Intercity connections (IC, ICE) trains will be filled to the brim and air conditioning unavailable. I love trains. I want to use public transport. It's just so goddamn inefficient. I live in a small town about 70km north of Frankfurt am Main. A lot of people will commute daily from here to Frankfurt. The drive is 45 minutes to 70 minutes depending on traffic. If I were to take a train I could: - Walk to the bus station (5 minutes) - Take a bus to the train station (25 minutes) - Take the train to Frankfurt (60 minutes) - Take the metro to the closest location for my office (10 minutes) - Walk into the office (5 minutes) The time given is assuming no delays, and a schedule that matches up perfectly. Realistically you'll lose another 30 minutes just standing around on platforms. Ultimately the whole trip, even with a daily ticket will already cost you double your fuel costs for the same ride while sacrificing air condition, quiet and comfort. We need better solutions for a lot of things. I loved seeing how Oxford in the UK has massive parking lots outside the city center with free buses connecting you to the city. It means that people can take the highway to the city but not get stuck in city traffic.
- distances 5y ago
  Major part of the problem is working 70 kilometers away. Before cars you would basically just live pretty close to your place of work. I think that's how it should still be, but don't see any realistic way for societies to encourage that beyond building denser cities where every new residential area comes with rail transport from the get-go.
- jokoon 5y ago
  1. Climate requires that we make some compromise 2. If we used cars less, there is a good chance public transport would have less of those issues you're talking about. It's a vicious circle. Urban planning has been favoring cars for a long time.
- Bolkan 5y ago
  > How do I get to/from the train station/bus stop? Having good public transportation would mean having a bus stop within 100m of every house.
  - netsharc 5y ago
    I used to live 700 meters away from the subway, there's also a bus stop 100m away from where I lived. The bus came less frequently than the subway, so I got a rickety old bike if I want to go the 700 meters faster. The whole way there's a bike path on the sidewalk, separated by a wide strip of grass/trees from the street.
- sofixa 5y ago
  > How do I get to/from the train station/bus stop? By foot, bike, trotinette. If it's too far, that isn't good public transit and/or you live too far.
  - pimlottc 5y ago
    > trotinette I believe we call that a scooter in English. Had to look it up.
jokoon 5y ago
> I don't understand why we aren't pouring massive amounts of money into public transport. Because it would be seen as a socialist measure.
- elric 5y ago
  That might be a valid explanation in the US, but it's hardly the case in the rest of the world ...
cdiddy2 5y ago
In the US we can and do throw money it but we don't get anything from it. Costs just balloon and scare anyone else from trying it. https://www.constructiondive.com/news/california-high-speed-rail-costs-rise-to-105-billion/618877/ https://www.constructiondive.com/news/california-high-speed-...

by elric 5y ago

consp 5y ago

> I can't wrap my head around how stupid this is. Same as in the Netherlands: It's a cost/tax dodge. Looks like you get 500-800 euro/month in car but it actually only costs about 200 to the company and the company doesn't have to pay a significant amount of taxes over it. Scrap that advantage and it will quickly go away.

halfdan 5y ago

Public transport hasn't solved the problem of "the last mile". How do I get to/from the train station/bus stop? Frequently you still need a car to even get there and then you will need parking - which is often limited and costs a lot. Then there's timeliness. Deutsche Bahn is known for frequently their trains are delayed. In summer, even on the Intercity connections (IC, ICE) trains will be filled to the brim and air conditioning unavailable. I love trains. I want to use public transport. It's just so goddamn inefficient. I live in a small town about 70km north of Frankfurt am Main. A lot of people will commute daily from here to Frankfurt. The drive is 45 minutes to 70 minutes depending on traffic. If I were to take a train I could: - Walk to the bus station (5 minutes) - Take a bus to the train station (25 minutes) - Take the train to Frankfurt (60 minutes) - Take the metro to the closest location for my office (10 minutes) - Walk into the office (5 minutes) The time given is assuming no delays, and a schedule that matches up perfectly. Realistically you'll lose another 30 minutes just standing around on platforms. Ultimately the whole trip, even with a daily ticket will already cost you double your fuel costs for the same ride while sacrificing air condition, quiet and comfort. We need better solutions for a lot of things. I loved seeing how Oxford in the UK has massive parking lots outside the city center with free buses connecting you to the city. It means that people can take the highway to the city but not get stuck in city traffic.

distances 5y ago
Major part of the problem is working 70 kilometers away. Before cars you would basically just live pretty close to your place of work. I think that's how it should still be, but don't see any realistic way for societies to encourage that beyond building denser cities where every new residential area comes with rail transport from the get-go.
jokoon 5y ago
1. Climate requires that we make some compromise 2. If we used cars less, there is a good chance public transport would have less of those issues you're talking about. It's a vicious circle. Urban planning has been favoring cars for a long time.
Bolkan 5y ago
> How do I get to/from the train station/bus stop? Having good public transportation would mean having a bus stop within 100m of every house.
- netsharc 5y ago
  I used to live 700 meters away from the subway, there's also a bus stop 100m away from where I lived. The bus came less frequently than the subway, so I got a rickety old bike if I want to go the 700 meters faster. The whole way there's a bike path on the sidewalk, separated by a wide strip of grass/trees from the street.
sofixa 5y ago
> How do I get to/from the train station/bus stop? By foot, bike, trotinette. If it's too far, that isn't good public transit and/or you live too far.
- pimlottc 5y ago
  > trotinette I believe we call that a scooter in English. Had to look it up.

jokoon 5y ago

> I don't understand why we aren't pouring massive amounts of money into public transport. Because it would be seen as a socialist measure.

elric 5y ago
That might be a valid explanation in the US, but it's hardly the case in the rest of the world ...

cdiddy2 5y ago

In the US we can and do throw money it but we don't get anything from it. Costs just balloon and scare anyone else from trying it. https://www.constructiondive.com/news/california-high-speed-rail-costs-rise-to-105-billion/618877/ https://www.constructiondive.com/news/california-high-speed-...