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The one thing I have to give Robinhood credit for is the good marketing that appealed to Zoomers and the WSB crowd. But, much like Crytpo Andys, a lot of these
by jmyeet 5y ago
The one thing I have to give Robinhood credit for is the good marketing that appealed to Zoomers and the WSB crowd. But, much like Crytpo Andys, a lot of these people just don't understand how anything works.
Take the GME short squeeze, which a lot of people still fundamentally misunderstand. RH allowed (allows?) you to sign up, promise to deposit funds and trade on credit, essentially, until those funds arrive (typically in no less than 3 days). That settlement process dind't go away. RH just abosrbed the risk.
That's fine when the market is normal. Some people might buy GE and others might sell GE so it all evens out. By this I mean the default risk to RH is mitigated (but still real).
The problem with GME is everyone was buying in a short space of time to the point RH had to borrow billions to cover the collateral requirements to the point it was risking making the company insolvent. That's how extreme it was. So what happens if people sign up, buy GME on credit and then GME crashes? RH is left holding the bag. That was the problem. It's also why GME blocked further purchases bu tallowed sales because sales decreased their overall risk no matter where they came from.
But no, how things actually work is ignored in favor of the system protecting hedge funds.
Personally I don't use any free brokerage because of the order flow issue, which is to say that all your orders are sold to hedge funds and that's where RH makes it's money. Just like with free online services that sell advertising: you are the product. It's so wild to me that people bitch about the evils of advertising but accept without question the selling of order flow, which is directtly taking money from your pockets. Crazy.
It's even crazier when you consider that the aforementioned evil hedge funds supposedly protecting GME short sellers are directly funding and benefitting from RH order flow but they get no flak for that.
You can only get away from not knowing how the underlying thing works. It'll eventually come back to bite you in the ass.
- kasey_junk 5y agoUntil recently every US broker accepted payment for order flow (even Vanguard did for options). Only Robinhood gave you back the money in the form of free trades. Thats to be commended. Payment for order flow is a complex topic, mostly because the incentives are tricky, but at the end of the day, unless you are doing gigantic block trades (which you’d hire a specialist to do) you are almost certainly paying less in slippage with PFOF than you are in fees.
- jmyeet 5y agoYou are mistaken. Other brokers also sold order flow [1] but not all. [1]: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/paymentoforderflow.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/paymentoforderflow.asp
- kasey_junk 5y agoI’m sorry I’m not sure what you think the link says but it doesn’t contradict me. I did a manual audit of the top 10 US brokers in 2019 and all of them participated in PFOF. The only caveats we’re that IB let you pay to opt out and Vanguard only engaged in PFOF in options. Every other broker I looked at used PFOF. Admittedly there could have been small brokerages that didn’t but it was such a small percentage I didn’t look.
- SilasX 5y ago> So what happens if people sign up, buy GME on credit and then GME crashes? RH is left holding the bag Except they cut off buys even if made with settled funds. Edit: to avoid retreading ground, here’s where I had the exchange before. Just tell me what you would say differently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27693578 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27693578