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> EULAs have not really been tested in court In Europe they do not need to be tested in court. They are not part of the contract of sale because you cannot s

> EULAs have not really been tested in court In Europe they do not need to be tested in court. They are not part of the contract of sale because you cannot see them before you complete the purchase. They are unenforceable.

marcosdumay 5y ago
On consumer relations that is very clear. Any rule that isn't on the marketing material does not exist. But on business relations, things are way more complex. I wouldn't be surprised if some rules were perfectly enforceable.
- kwhitefoot 5y ago
  It's not part of the contract of sale if it is not possible to read it before agreeing to buy. You can't impose extra conditions on the buyer after the sale. I suppose I should point out that I'm not a lawyer and that the US situation might be very different. The OP should consult a lawyer or return the camera for a refund if he feels unsure about the meaning of the agreement.
  - marcosdumay 5y ago
    > You can't impose extra conditions on the buyer after the sale. Yes, but B2B sales come on all kinds of shapes. On some cases there is clear not an agreement on the EULA terms, but I'm not sure that is a universal rule.
Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
Meanwhile in the USA, we prioritize corporate profits over consumers. "Caveat emptor" is the motto. It's your own fault for not doing research!
JoeAltmaier 5y ago
The rule is the same in the USA. Which in practice doesn't matter much.
tpxl 5y ago
I find this questionable. You buy the hardware, then get 'the software' for 'free' after the fact. I imagine crypto miners would throw a fit after nVidia made it harder to mine some coins, but none of them ever did? With the amount of money they earn I'd imagine they would.
- throwaway821909 5y ago
  From https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2021/05/18/lhr/ https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2021/05/18/lhr/ Because these GPUs originally launched with a full hash rate, we want to ensure that customers know exactly what they’re getting when they buy GeForce products. To help with this, our GeForce partners are labeling the GeForce RTX 3080, RTX 3070 and RTX 3060 Ti cards with a “Lite Hash Rate,” or “LHR,” identifier. The identifier will be in retail product listings and on the box. This reduced hash rate only applies to newly manufactured cards with the LHR identifier and not to cards already purchased.
  - tpxl 5y ago
    Weren't some old (1xxx and 2xxx series) cards also reduced and promptly 'hacked' a few days later?
hvdijk 5y ago
They may be enforceable even in Europe. The situation in the Netherlands is explained at <https://blog.iusmentis.com/2008/04/05/de-rechtsgeldigheid-van-software-eulas/ https://blog.iusmentis.com/2008/04/05/de-rechtsgeldigheid-va...>; in short, for general terms and conditions that apply to everyone, you merely need to have been suitably informed beforehand and the terms cannot be unreasonably burdensome. In Belgium, a judge ruled in October last year that an EULA cannot prohibit decompilation of software, <https://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=247056&pageIndex=0&doclang=en&mode=req&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=6413406 https://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&do...>, a ruling that rather directly implies that EULAs are valid in general in Belgium, it is only specific clauses in EULAs that may be deemed invalid. I do not know where this idea that EULAs are invalid throughout the EU comes from. It is simply not true.

marcosdumay 5y ago

On consumer relations that is very clear. Any rule that isn't on the marketing material does not exist. But on business relations, things are way more complex. I wouldn't be surprised if some rules were perfectly enforceable.

kwhitefoot 5y ago
It's not part of the contract of sale if it is not possible to read it before agreeing to buy. You can't impose extra conditions on the buyer after the sale. I suppose I should point out that I'm not a lawyer and that the US situation might be very different. The OP should consult a lawyer or return the camera for a refund if he feels unsure about the meaning of the agreement.
- marcosdumay 5y ago
  > You can't impose extra conditions on the buyer after the sale. Yes, but B2B sales come on all kinds of shapes. On some cases there is clear not an agreement on the EULA terms, but I'm not sure that is a universal rule.

Sohcahtoa82 5y ago

Meanwhile in the USA, we prioritize corporate profits over consumers. "Caveat emptor" is the motto. It's your own fault for not doing research!

JoeAltmaier 5y ago

The rule is the same in the USA. Which in practice doesn't matter much.

tpxl 5y ago

I find this questionable. You buy the hardware, then get 'the software' for 'free' after the fact. I imagine crypto miners would throw a fit after nVidia made it harder to mine some coins, but none of them ever did? With the amount of money they earn I'd imagine they would.

throwaway821909 5y ago
From https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2021/05/18/lhr/ https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2021/05/18/lhr/ Because these GPUs originally launched with a full hash rate, we want to ensure that customers know exactly what they’re getting when they buy GeForce products. To help with this, our GeForce partners are labeling the GeForce RTX 3080, RTX 3070 and RTX 3060 Ti cards with a “Lite Hash Rate,” or “LHR,” identifier. The identifier will be in retail product listings and on the box. This reduced hash rate only applies to newly manufactured cards with the LHR identifier and not to cards already purchased.
- tpxl 5y ago
  Weren't some old (1xxx and 2xxx series) cards also reduced and promptly 'hacked' a few days later?

hvdijk 5y ago

They may be enforceable even in Europe. The situation in the Netherlands is explained at <https://blog.iusmentis.com/2008/04/05/de-rechtsgeldigheid-van-software-eulas/ https://blog.iusmentis.com/2008/04/05/de-rechtsgeldigheid-va...>; in short, for general terms and conditions that apply to everyone, you merely need to have been suitably informed beforehand and the terms cannot be unreasonably burdensome. In Belgium, a judge ruled in October last year that an EULA cannot prohibit decompilation of software, <https://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=247056&pageIndex=0&doclang=en&mode=req&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=6413406 https://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&do...>, a ruling that rather directly implies that EULAs are valid in general in Belgium, it is only specific clauses in EULAs that may be deemed invalid. I do not know where this idea that EULAs are invalid throughout the EU comes from. It is simply not true.