21 ms·

I recall back in the previous boom of 2006-2007 they were paying high school graduates $200k to work in the fields. They would even fly you in and you work a fe

by j7ake 5y ago

I recall back in the previous boom of 2006-2007 they were paying high school graduates $200k to work in the fields. They would even fly you in and you work a few days then fly you out. I wonder if salaries have changed since then.

WhatsName 4y ago
That's a wild guess and I have no insight into the industry, but I wouldn't be suprised if it's yet another race to the bottom? Labor seems to be one of the few things where supply and demand dont apply. Happy to be wrong.
- jason-phillips 4y ago
  > Labor seems to be one of the few things where supply and demand dont apply. I don't understand this. From my perspective, the labor market in the United States today is possibly the best example of supply and demand mechanics.
  - oicU00 4y ago
    Adam Smith only mentions markets in the context of a free labor market. It’s the only supply and demand metric he ever describes. It was generalized into everything is a market, with jargon cottage industry springing up around everything; market is a hammer, and we pound nails.
    - gweinberg 4y ago
      That's not true at all. He talks a lot about land rent, and argues that at the end of the day a farmer who rents crappy land and a farmer that rents good land should make about the same, since the difference in rents will about balance the difference in yields. A tenant farmer is a small businessman, not an employee.
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    Lol. No. At the low end, the market is directly supported by welfare programs. In the middle, supply friction is distorted by health insurance. There are meaningful market forces at play at the upper echelon, but it’s more a social market than tied to actual business outcomes.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - jason-phillips 4y ago
      Obvious distortions exist, the ones you noted, plus minimum wage and so forth. However, discussion to this point notwithstanding, I still believe it's the most exemplary mechanic of supply and demand today.
fnordpiglet 4y ago
They discuss wages. $45 / hour was average in the US. They’re losing people to Amazon driver jobs etc. It’s hard to empathize when clearly they could simply pay more.
- sitkack 4y ago
  They make more money by shipping less oil, these pieces are placed to make it look like they are trying to increase supply which is not an incentive. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/18/marathon-petroleum-job-cuts-pandemic-benefits https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/18/marathon-pet...
  - pseudo0 4y ago
    The problem is that if oil companies make multi-year investments to increase production, what happens if the Ukraine conflict ends in a few months and Russian oil is tolerated again, or OPEC ramps up production? Companies and investors are tired of repeatedly having the rug pulled out from under them, investing during high price periods and then eating losses when the price of oil falls. If the government wants more domestic oil supply, they will need to craft policy to encourage that, not just complain in press releases.
    - sitkack 4y ago
      Gas prices aren't high because of Ukraine, they are high because of oil company profits https://twitter.com/IAmPoliticsGirl/status/1518048366319480832 https://twitter.com/IAmPoliticsGirl/status/15180483663194808...
      - pseudo0 4y ago
        I pulled up one example, Exxon Mobile. Their net profit margin is 8.21%. BP is at 4.8%. Meanwhile the average for the S&P 500 is at 12.4%. So if these companies decided to operate as non-profits, we'd see maybe a drop from $5.00 gas to $4.80 or $4.70 (assuming the whole discount gets passed on to consumers). Prices were already up before Ukraine thanks to the resurgence of demand post-covid, but it certainly didn't help. Also, please don't argue via linking obnoxious TikTok-style videos. If you have a point, make it yourself.

by j7ake 5y ago

WhatsName 4y ago

That's a wild guess and I have no insight into the industry, but I wouldn't be suprised if it's yet another race to the bottom? Labor seems to be one of the few things where supply and demand dont apply. Happy to be wrong.

jason-phillips 4y ago
> Labor seems to be one of the few things where supply and demand dont apply. I don't understand this. From my perspective, the labor market in the United States today is possibly the best example of supply and demand mechanics.
- oicU00 4y ago
  Adam Smith only mentions markets in the context of a free labor market. It’s the only supply and demand metric he ever describes. It was generalized into everything is a market, with jargon cottage industry springing up around everything; market is a hammer, and we pound nails.
  - gweinberg 4y ago
    That's not true at all. He talks a lot about land rent, and argues that at the end of the day a farmer who rents crappy land and a farmer that rents good land should make about the same, since the difference in rents will about balance the difference in yields. A tenant farmer is a small businessman, not an employee.
- Spooky23 4y ago
  Lol. No. At the low end, the market is directly supported by welfare programs. In the middle, supply friction is distorted by health insurance. There are meaningful market forces at play at the upper echelon, but it’s more a social market than tied to actual business outcomes.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - jason-phillips 4y ago
    Obvious distortions exist, the ones you noted, plus minimum wage and so forth. However, discussion to this point notwithstanding, I still believe it's the most exemplary mechanic of supply and demand today.

fnordpiglet 4y ago

They discuss wages. $45 / hour was average in the US. They’re losing people to Amazon driver jobs etc. It’s hard to empathize when clearly they could simply pay more.

sitkack 4y ago
They make more money by shipping less oil, these pieces are placed to make it look like they are trying to increase supply which is not an incentive. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/18/marathon-petroleum-job-cuts-pandemic-benefits https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/18/marathon-pet...
- pseudo0 4y ago
  The problem is that if oil companies make multi-year investments to increase production, what happens if the Ukraine conflict ends in a few months and Russian oil is tolerated again, or OPEC ramps up production? Companies and investors are tired of repeatedly having the rug pulled out from under them, investing during high price periods and then eating losses when the price of oil falls. If the government wants more domestic oil supply, they will need to craft policy to encourage that, not just complain in press releases.
  - sitkack 4y ago
    Gas prices aren't high because of Ukraine, they are high because of oil company profits https://twitter.com/IAmPoliticsGirl/status/1518048366319480832 https://twitter.com/IAmPoliticsGirl/status/15180483663194808...
    - pseudo0 4y ago
      I pulled up one example, Exxon Mobile. Their net profit margin is 8.21%. BP is at 4.8%. Meanwhile the average for the S&P 500 is at 12.4%. So if these companies decided to operate as non-profits, we'd see maybe a drop from $5.00 gas to $4.80 or $4.70 (assuming the whole discount gets passed on to consumers). Prices were already up before Ukraine thanks to the resurgence of demand post-covid, but it certainly didn't help. Also, please don't argue via linking obnoxious TikTok-style videos. If you have a point, make it yourself.