6 ms·

If you are bad enough to need ECMO, you may as well wish you were dead. Not sure what is better. Little is talked about the life of these people after they are

If you are bad enough to need ECMO, you may as well wish you were dead. Not sure what is better. Little is talked about the life of these people after they are "saved", whatever that word means. Besides sequelae from Covid itself, you're getting ECMO sequelae as a cherry on top. You can't just go back to life as it was.

rob74 4y ago
Not just ECMO, people who were "only" on a respirator for a few weeks/months also have their fair share of issues afterwards. Makes you think reading stories like these should be enough to convince anyone to get vaccinated. But some people are still convinced that this won't happen to them if they get Covid, however they fear any number of side effects from the vaccination...
- azinman2 4y ago
  Just go read the sister thread right now on myocarditis in Israel… people are calling for tribunals on medical malpractice for forcing people to get vaccines…
  - DontMindit 4y ago
    Can you link the thread please. I looked through your profiles other comments but I didn't see it.
    - nradov 4y ago
      I don't know if there is a discussion thread but an Israeli study was just published yesterday which found an association between COVID-19 vaccination and myocarditis in young men. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-022-10928-z https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-022-10928-z (I am not taking a position on the findings of that study, just providing a link as a reference.)
    - somenameforme 4y ago
      Not the person you're responding to, but if you're unaware/interested in relevant data this study [1] was just published 10 days ago and it's interesting. It compared the rates of myocarditis/pericarditis only within the 28 day period following vaccination to the rates experienced by unvaccinated individuals over a sample of 23 million Europeans. Keep in mind the metric they use (IRR - incident rate ratio) is a ratio, not a percent. So an IRR of 15 means 1500% more events. Table 2 lays out everything quite nicely. To see it you need to click on figures/tables and scroll down a bit. [1] - https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2791253 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/...
    - robocat 4y ago
      Probably this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31202038 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31202038 I suggest you use https://hn.algolia.com/ https://hn.algolia.com/ to search for past stories or comments (make sure to use the correct combo selections, otherwise it won’t give you what you want!).
  - feurio 4y ago
    Given that the risk of myocarditis after covid 19 infection is six times worse than after vaccination [1] this is just a cost of doing business. (where "cost of doing business" is defined as "not dying from a disease which is easily preventable in the vast majority of cases") [1] - https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25133462-800-myocarditis-is-more-common-after-covid-19-infection-than-vaccination/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25133462-800-myocardi...
- bsder 4y ago
  > But some people are still convinced that this won't happen to them if they get Covid, however they fear any number of side effects from the vaccination... Ayup. Had a close relative like this--he was about 10 years younger than me and still has a teenager. He got Delta and wound up on ECMO. He didn't make it. All because anti-vax was part of his social identity. And it's not like he didn't know. I got Covid Original Flavour(tm) and loudly told everybody around me how much it sucked (it was basically the 3rd sickest I've ever been in my life) and all the side effects I got from it.
queuebert 4y ago
My wife treats ECMO patients, and it is not uncommon for them to attempt suicide by pulling out the cannulas. A couple have succeeded. What follows is a rapid exsanguination over the next few minutes as the machine pumps their blood onto the floor at 2 L/min. That tells me the quality of life while on treatment is not good. The ones that survive the treatment (less than half) are never the same. But they aren't dead.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  I'd be cautious assuming intensive care patients are entirely of right mind. Something in ICU treatment tends to induce delirium/psychosis. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/publications/hopkins_medicine_magazine/features/delirium https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/publications/hopkins_me... > The sickest of survivors frequently experience delirium at some point in their course of treatment. The condition occurs in 70 to 80 percent of acute respiratory failure cases, according to a 2013 study in the New England Journal of Medicine. Among the elderly the ICU delirium rate is similarly at about 80 percent, experts say.
  - queuebert 4y ago
    Note I did not say everyone who pulls out their cannula is doing it intentionally. You are right that some do it accidentally, which is extremely sad.
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      > I did not say everyone who pulls out their cannula is doing it intentionally. That's not my objection. I'm saying the folks who do it intentionally may not always be of sound mind. It's not uncommon for folks coming out of anesthesia to panic and be distressed, especially if they're intubated.

rob74 4y ago

Not just ECMO, people who were "only" on a respirator for a few weeks/months also have their fair share of issues afterwards. Makes you think reading stories like these should be enough to convince anyone to get vaccinated. But some people are still convinced that this won't happen to them if they get Covid, however they fear any number of side effects from the vaccination...

azinman2 4y ago
Just go read the sister thread right now on myocarditis in Israel… people are calling for tribunals on medical malpractice for forcing people to get vaccines…
- DontMindit 4y ago
  Can you link the thread please. I looked through your profiles other comments but I didn't see it.
  - nradov 4y ago
    I don't know if there is a discussion thread but an Israeli study was just published yesterday which found an association between COVID-19 vaccination and myocarditis in young men. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-022-10928-z https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-022-10928-z (I am not taking a position on the findings of that study, just providing a link as a reference.)
  - somenameforme 4y ago
    Not the person you're responding to, but if you're unaware/interested in relevant data this study [1] was just published 10 days ago and it's interesting. It compared the rates of myocarditis/pericarditis only within the 28 day period following vaccination to the rates experienced by unvaccinated individuals over a sample of 23 million Europeans. Keep in mind the metric they use (IRR - incident rate ratio) is a ratio, not a percent. So an IRR of 15 means 1500% more events. Table 2 lays out everything quite nicely. To see it you need to click on figures/tables and scroll down a bit. [1] - https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2791253 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/...
  - robocat 4y ago
    Probably this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31202038 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31202038 I suggest you use https://hn.algolia.com/ https://hn.algolia.com/ to search for past stories or comments (make sure to use the correct combo selections, otherwise it won’t give you what you want!).
- feurio 4y ago
  Given that the risk of myocarditis after covid 19 infection is six times worse than after vaccination [1] this is just a cost of doing business. (where "cost of doing business" is defined as "not dying from a disease which is easily preventable in the vast majority of cases") [1] - https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25133462-800-myocarditis-is-more-common-after-covid-19-infection-than-vaccination/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25133462-800-myocardi...
bsder 4y ago
> But some people are still convinced that this won't happen to them if they get Covid, however they fear any number of side effects from the vaccination... Ayup. Had a close relative like this--he was about 10 years younger than me and still has a teenager. He got Delta and wound up on ECMO. He didn't make it. All because anti-vax was part of his social identity. And it's not like he didn't know. I got Covid Original Flavour(tm) and loudly told everybody around me how much it sucked (it was basically the 3rd sickest I've ever been in my life) and all the side effects I got from it.

queuebert 4y ago

My wife treats ECMO patients, and it is not uncommon for them to attempt suicide by pulling out the cannulas. A couple have succeeded. What follows is a rapid exsanguination over the next few minutes as the machine pumps their blood onto the floor at 2 L/min. That tells me the quality of life while on treatment is not good. The ones that survive the treatment (less than half) are never the same. But they aren't dead.

ceejayoz 4y ago
I'd be cautious assuming intensive care patients are entirely of right mind. Something in ICU treatment tends to induce delirium/psychosis. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/publications/hopkins_medicine_magazine/features/delirium https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/publications/hopkins_me... > The sickest of survivors frequently experience delirium at some point in their course of treatment. The condition occurs in 70 to 80 percent of acute respiratory failure cases, according to a 2013 study in the New England Journal of Medicine. Among the elderly the ICU delirium rate is similarly at about 80 percent, experts say.
- queuebert 4y ago
  Note I did not say everyone who pulls out their cannula is doing it intentionally. You are right that some do it accidentally, which is extremely sad.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    > I did not say everyone who pulls out their cannula is doing it intentionally. That's not my objection. I'm saying the folks who do it intentionally may not always be of sound mind. It's not uncommon for folks coming out of anesthesia to panic and be distressed, especially if they're intubated.