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There's a lot more political polarization, no doubt, but I'm actually not sure it's true that there's more social division. A few decades ago, basic questions l

There's a lot more political polarization, no doubt, but I'm actually not sure it's true that there's more social division. A few decades ago, basic questions like "is it OK for different races to get married" and "should women participate fully in society" remained unresolved, with a ton of people wielding substantial power sitting on the "no" side. (The Handmaid's Tale wasn't meant to be some crazy impossible premise; Margaret Atwood genuinely believed that she was describing a real trend that might happen if we're not careful.)

rtkwe 5y ago
There's still time for that backslide to happen we're already seeing conservative reactionary groups pushing for returns to before those questions were 'resolved' in more and less direct terms.
- SpicyLemonZest 5y ago
  I wouldn't claim that a backslide is impossible, but it's important to understand that these weren't just conservative reactionary issues at the time. I have an uncle who got interracially married in the 1990s, and his wife's family were concerned about it because of gender rights - they thought that he as a Hispanic man was going to expect her to be "barefoot and pregnant".
bradlys 5y ago
I’d read Robert Putnam’s book Bowling Alone or The Upswing. (Or just watch him talk about it on YouTube) Social division is definitely higher than it’s ever been in decades. Racism and sexism is less prevalent but social division is actually higher than ever.
- SpicyLemonZest 5y ago
  I hate to make both of us feel ancient, but Bowling Alone was written in the "decades ago" period I'm talking about. While the trend of social atomization has definitely continued, I don't think division as such has gotten worse since then. (Seconding the recommendation though, it is a good book.)
  - bradlys 5y ago
    He has follow up books like the one I suggested. It hasn’t gotten better. Division is stronger at socioeconomic lines than ever afaict. We replaced race and sex division with class.
- reciprocity 5y ago
  Thanks for the recommendation.
- asdff 5y ago
  People are only measuring social division in the online discourse imo. Look at the world. People are lining up politely in the grocery store and smiling when you cross paths on the street. I'm guessing you will also note there is no social division in your neighborhood either when you go out walking around. Meanwhile, in the 1960s people were burning their draft cards, starving themselves to be underweight for the draft, or fleeing to canada. Returning soldiers at the airport would be spat on by protesters. Black people regularly had stones thrown at them or worse and no one made any news article about it. Activist groups were actually armed, and serious situations occured with that. Teenage girls were congregating in a canyon outside of los angeles to join a serial killers sex cult. Groups of people were travelling the country in a school bus turning square people on to acid and mushrooms. That was the peak of social disorder. We are all in line now, despite what the narratives in the media make us think. People hold opinions strongly, but they are of a limited set of prescribed opinions from the media. Find any thread online about a given topic you've read about online before, and the comments will all be the same and predictable. We aren't exposed to as much unorthodox thought as our population used to be back before global media had total influence on how we sourced our information about the world.

rtkwe 5y ago

There's still time for that backslide to happen we're already seeing conservative reactionary groups pushing for returns to before those questions were 'resolved' in more and less direct terms.

SpicyLemonZest 5y ago
I wouldn't claim that a backslide is impossible, but it's important to understand that these weren't just conservative reactionary issues at the time. I have an uncle who got interracially married in the 1990s, and his wife's family were concerned about it because of gender rights - they thought that he as a Hispanic man was going to expect her to be "barefoot and pregnant".

bradlys 5y ago

I’d read Robert Putnam’s book Bowling Alone or The Upswing. (Or just watch him talk about it on YouTube) Social division is definitely higher than it’s ever been in decades. Racism and sexism is less prevalent but social division is actually higher than ever.

SpicyLemonZest 5y ago
I hate to make both of us feel ancient, but Bowling Alone was written in the "decades ago" period I'm talking about. While the trend of social atomization has definitely continued, I don't think division as such has gotten worse since then. (Seconding the recommendation though, it is a good book.)
- bradlys 5y ago
  He has follow up books like the one I suggested. It hasn’t gotten better. Division is stronger at socioeconomic lines than ever afaict. We replaced race and sex division with class.
reciprocity 5y ago
Thanks for the recommendation.
asdff 5y ago
People are only measuring social division in the online discourse imo. Look at the world. People are lining up politely in the grocery store and smiling when you cross paths on the street. I'm guessing you will also note there is no social division in your neighborhood either when you go out walking around. Meanwhile, in the 1960s people were burning their draft cards, starving themselves to be underweight for the draft, or fleeing to canada. Returning soldiers at the airport would be spat on by protesters. Black people regularly had stones thrown at them or worse and no one made any news article about it. Activist groups were actually armed, and serious situations occured with that. Teenage girls were congregating in a canyon outside of los angeles to join a serial killers sex cult. Groups of people were travelling the country in a school bus turning square people on to acid and mushrooms. That was the peak of social disorder. We are all in line now, despite what the narratives in the media make us think. People hold opinions strongly, but they are of a limited set of prescribed opinions from the media. Find any thread online about a given topic you've read about online before, and the comments will all be the same and predictable. We aren't exposed to as much unorthodox thought as our population used to be back before global media had total influence on how we sourced our information about the world.