7 ms·

I am somewhat proud that because of UE all the world went ROHS. Let's go forward!

hadrien01 4y ago
> The Brussels effect is the process of unilateral regulatory globalisation caused by the European Union de facto (but not necessarily de jure) externalising its laws outside its borders through market mechanisms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
- sofixa 4y ago
  TIL. I didn't know there's a term for it, but it makes sense, it's a common phenomenon. Hopefully it catches on even more, especially with digital laws like GDPR, and the upcoming Digital Markets and Services Acts.
stingraycharles 4y ago
For what it’s worth, to me it’s very difficult to understand your comment; I have no idea what UE or ROHS means.
- nix23 4y ago
  UE = United Emirates you can google the rest ;)
  - ask_b123 4y ago
    You might already know (judging by the ;)), but here UE definitely refers to the European Union.
- pcstl 4y ago
  UE = Union Europea, or Unione Europea, or Union Européenne, or União Europeia i.e. European Union using the Romance language acronym RoHS = Restriction of Hazardous Substances, a directive that restricts the materials that can be used in electronic devices, forbidding manufacturers from using many known toxic materials. Initially adopted in the EU but then globally due to the necessity of exporting to the EU.
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    Yeah and the US here is referred to as EEUU (Estados Unidos, in Spanish plural acronyms get their letters doubled). It would throw me off a bit at first but I got used to it quickly. Same as with driving on the other side when I moved over from Ireland :)
- arlort 4y ago
  In romance languages (and possibly others) the order of adjectives/nouns is reversed compared to english, in those languages European Union gets abbreviated to UE (instead of EU), the comment is probably by someone who uses one such language natively It's kinda hard to notice because it's so short and similar, I hadn't noticed myself until I read your comment. ROHS is the acronym for a 2002 EU law called "Restriction of Hazardous Substances Directive" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Subst...
- amelius 4y ago
  UE=EU just like OTAN=NATO.
userbinator 4y ago
Because of RoHS countless otherwise perfect functioning equipment was turned into e-waste. There's a reason aerospace still uses leaded solder.
- orangepurple 4y ago
  Is it because of tin whiskers under vacuum and low temperature? Conditions not present here on Earth?
  - nickff 4y ago
    Whiskers were an early problem, but the biggest issues right now are: - Lead-free solders don't wet/flow as well as leaded, which causes lower manufacturing yields. - Lead-free solders are generally more brittle and subject to earlier fatigue failures than leaded solders, so the lead-free units often fail prematurely (compared to leaded ones).
  - InitialLastName 4y ago
    Solder whiskers are more likely at low pressure and low temp, but they happen with lead-free solder (more slowly and at a lower frequency) under standard conditions as well [1]. Given the number of connections on any given PCB, and that we have no way to prevent or predict whiskers, the failure rate over reasonable time-frames of any ROHS PCBA converges to 100%. [1] https://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/reference/tech_papers/2005-dadonna-nuclear-reactor-shutdown.pdf https://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/reference/tech_papers/2005-dad...
  - compumike 4y ago
    Tin whiskers also occur on earth at ambient temperature and pressure. I’ve personally experienced tin whiskers growing between adjacent TQFP pins (resulting in product failures). We successfully mitigated this with (1) electronic redesign so the whisker was likely to fuse (self-destruct melting via resistive heating) if it made contact with the adjacent pin in question, and (2) urethane conformal coating. NASA studies such as https://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/reference/tech_papers/2010-Panashchenko-IPC-Tin-Whisker.pdf https://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/reference/tech_papers/2010-Pan... show that urethane conformal coating is effective against tin whiskers. But that does add another chemical and processing step and its own hazards.
assttoasstmgr 4y ago
Give me liberty (of leaded solder paste) or give me death (by breathing in lead-free flux fumes).
- dathinab 4y ago
  You can work with the later by proper ventilating, even in many hobby setups. Dealing with lead safely is much harder, and in a hobby setup can be assumed to be infeasible to be done correctly for nearly all people
  - theodric 4y ago
    That's my problem. Utterly exhausted with safety culture overreach, as if the single most important thing possible is maximum safety, to the detriment of all other factors. Solitary confinement is very safe.
    - dathinab 4y ago
      In case of lead solder it's the problem of you also the (potential) problem of: - Spouse, Child or anyone sharing your apartment - Technicians or similar which might enter your apartment - Anyone living in your apartment after you - Anyone to which you might sell the desk, used tool and similar - In case of gross negligence you might also contaminate public transportation or e.g. a desk at a restaurant - Police/Firefighters (in case they have to enter your apartment) - ... also many young people which start soldering as a hobby are not really aware about the health risk of solder, in which case lead free solder is still a better choice. So no it's not just your problem. And it doesn't matter if you specifically handle it correctly, most hobby soldering people do not and this is a general decision which is mainly about lead in hobby use cases (there are a bunch exceptions for companies). Well and it's also about sold devices, because that also matter, children get there hand on them and there are various (sometimes surprising) ways how lead from soldering can get into the life of people using the product, instead of producing it.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  Leaded solder doesn't produce significant amounts of lead vapor in solder fumes. Lead-free is no less hazardous with prolonged exposure.

> The Brussels effect is the process of unilateral regulatory globalisation caused by the European Union de facto (but not necessarily de jure) externalising its laws outside its borders through market mechanisms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

sofixa 4y ago
TIL. I didn't know there's a term for it, but it makes sense, it's a common phenomenon. Hopefully it catches on even more, especially with digital laws like GDPR, and the upcoming Digital Markets and Services Acts.

stingraycharles 4y ago

For what it’s worth, to me it’s very difficult to understand your comment; I have no idea what UE or ROHS means.

nix23 4y ago
UE = United Emirates you can google the rest ;)
- ask_b123 4y ago
  You might already know (judging by the ;)), but here UE definitely refers to the European Union.
pcstl 4y ago
UE = Union Europea, or Unione Europea, or Union Européenne, or União Europeia i.e. European Union using the Romance language acronym RoHS = Restriction of Hazardous Substances, a directive that restricts the materials that can be used in electronic devices, forbidding manufacturers from using many known toxic materials. Initially adopted in the EU but then globally due to the necessity of exporting to the EU.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  Yeah and the US here is referred to as EEUU (Estados Unidos, in Spanish plural acronyms get their letters doubled). It would throw me off a bit at first but I got used to it quickly. Same as with driving on the other side when I moved over from Ireland :)
arlort 4y ago
In romance languages (and possibly others) the order of adjectives/nouns is reversed compared to english, in those languages European Union gets abbreviated to UE (instead of EU), the comment is probably by someone who uses one such language natively It's kinda hard to notice because it's so short and similar, I hadn't noticed myself until I read your comment. ROHS is the acronym for a 2002 EU law called "Restriction of Hazardous Substances Directive" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Subst...
amelius 4y ago
UE=EU just like OTAN=NATO.

userbinator 4y ago

Because of RoHS countless otherwise perfect functioning equipment was turned into e-waste. There's a reason aerospace still uses leaded solder.

orangepurple 4y ago
Is it because of tin whiskers under vacuum and low temperature? Conditions not present here on Earth?
- nickff 4y ago
  Whiskers were an early problem, but the biggest issues right now are: - Lead-free solders don't wet/flow as well as leaded, which causes lower manufacturing yields. - Lead-free solders are generally more brittle and subject to earlier fatigue failures than leaded solders, so the lead-free units often fail prematurely (compared to leaded ones).
- InitialLastName 4y ago
  Solder whiskers are more likely at low pressure and low temp, but they happen with lead-free solder (more slowly and at a lower frequency) under standard conditions as well [1]. Given the number of connections on any given PCB, and that we have no way to prevent or predict whiskers, the failure rate over reasonable time-frames of any ROHS PCBA converges to 100%. [1] https://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/reference/tech_papers/2005-dadonna-nuclear-reactor-shutdown.pdf https://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/reference/tech_papers/2005-dad...
- compumike 4y ago
  Tin whiskers also occur on earth at ambient temperature and pressure. I’ve personally experienced tin whiskers growing between adjacent TQFP pins (resulting in product failures). We successfully mitigated this with (1) electronic redesign so the whisker was likely to fuse (self-destruct melting via resistive heating) if it made contact with the adjacent pin in question, and (2) urethane conformal coating. NASA studies such as https://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/reference/tech_papers/2010-Panashchenko-IPC-Tin-Whisker.pdf https://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/reference/tech_papers/2010-Pan... show that urethane conformal coating is effective against tin whiskers. But that does add another chemical and processing step and its own hazards.

assttoasstmgr 4y ago

Give me liberty (of leaded solder paste) or give me death (by breathing in lead-free flux fumes).

dathinab 4y ago
You can work with the later by proper ventilating, even in many hobby setups. Dealing with lead safely is much harder, and in a hobby setup can be assumed to be infeasible to be done correctly for nearly all people
- theodric 4y ago
  That's my problem. Utterly exhausted with safety culture overreach, as if the single most important thing possible is maximum safety, to the detriment of all other factors. Solitary confinement is very safe.
  - dathinab 4y ago
    In case of lead solder it's the problem of you also the (potential) problem of: - Spouse, Child or anyone sharing your apartment - Technicians or similar which might enter your apartment - Anyone living in your apartment after you - Anyone to which you might sell the desk, used tool and similar - In case of gross negligence you might also contaminate public transportation or e.g. a desk at a restaurant - Police/Firefighters (in case they have to enter your apartment) - ... also many young people which start soldering as a hobby are not really aware about the health risk of solder, in which case lead free solder is still a better choice. So no it's not just your problem. And it doesn't matter if you specifically handle it correctly, most hobby soldering people do not and this is a general decision which is mainly about lead in hobby use cases (there are a bunch exceptions for companies). Well and it's also about sold devices, because that also matter, children get there hand on them and there are various (sometimes surprising) ways how lead from soldering can get into the life of people using the product, instead of producing it.
kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
Leaded solder doesn't produce significant amounts of lead vapor in solder fumes. Lead-free is no less hazardous with prolonged exposure.