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Apple released an IOS update for the iPhone 6s last month. That's 7 years of software updates. A 2015 MacBook can still run the newest OS. A Mac Pro from 2013

Apple released an IOS update for the iPhone 6s last month. That's 7 years of software updates. A 2015 MacBook can still run the newest OS. A Mac Pro from 2013 can still run the newest OS. You can still buy a replacement battery from Apple for a 7 year old device. Where is the planned obsolescence? Apple is supporting their devices longer than any other consumer tech company. How are they actively trying to "screw customers over"?

kurupt213 4y ago
Microsoft supports hardware way longer than apple, and many more configurations
simonh 4y ago
You can’t argue with these people. Almost double the software support period and average device service life of the nearest competitors still counts as ‘planned obsolescence’, yet none of those competitors get dinged for their device lifetimes. It’s complete dislocation from reality.
- user_7832 4y ago
  Mate did you even read my comment before replying? > yet none of those competitors get dinged for their device lifetimes. It’s complete dislocation from reality. I literally said that if Apple is the best the rest (the "standard" or bar) is underground. To paraphrase/reiterate: I think other companies are doing an even shittier job. > It’s complete dislocation from reality. I must concur.
  - simonh 4y ago
    My point is even when they go to far greater lengths than the others, they’re still criticised (including by you) of actively reducing device lifetime. That is absurd. Vague references to a ‘bar’ without even mentioning their competitors even as a genetic group is hardly equivalent to targeted named criticism of the company.
- DSingularity 4y ago
  Considering their full lifetime, it works out to basically you can own these devices for less than a dollar a day. I appreciate that I am not getting gauged by the manufacturer just so I can stay in the ecosystem. Doubt I would say the same about other companies.
user_7832 4y ago
I replied to another comment here as well on a similar note - software is just one half of the picture, and needs proper hardware. Apple makes hardware that looks good in advertisements - even if it comes at the cost of consumer benefit (see: Apple's unbraided charging cable failure issue amongst others). They are very happy to support your device... as long as their poorly designed hardware doesn't fail (specific example from Louis Rossman's video - at 48V power cable to the display next to the sensitive data lines.) Apple know cares about customers as long as it doesn't hurt its PR, much like the vast majority of profit-driven companies.
- windowsrookie 4y ago
  Applecare+ can now be extended "indefinitely" (we don't know yet how long, but likely around ~7 years). Cost varies from $35-150/year depending on the device. So you can now have your apple hardware covered under warranty for longer than any other manufacturer, along with having longer software support than any other manufacturer. Applecare+ also includes two "accidental damage" incidents per year. So you can throw your 7 year old Macbook out a window or into the ocean twice a year and Apple will repair it. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/applecare-coverage-for-mac-can-now-be-extended-beyond-three-years.2292630/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/applecare-coverage-for-... I am not an Apple die-hard fanboy. I personally used many Android devices, a Dell XPS 15, and a custom built PC until last year (switched to an iPhone 13 and M1 Air). But Apple is providing longer software and hardware support than any other company right now, and I really don't understand how you can still complain.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    It's a substantially different kind of 'warranty' coverage when you're paying a significant fraction of the device's value every year.
    - mynameisvlad 4y ago
      It's still more than what's even available for the competitors. It's easy to be pessimistic, but show me any phone manufacturer that offers extended support past 3 years. Hell, even computers hardly will come with more than that as an option.
AussieWog93 4y ago
As another person here commented, just because Apple is less bad than other companies it doesn't mean they're not bad. There's really no justification as to why I can install the latest version of Windows 10 on a computer from 2006 and everything works smoothly, but if I try to install Android 12 on a device from 2 years ago then everything turns to shit.
- paulmd 4y ago
  > There's really no justification as to why I can install the latest version of Windows 10 on a computer from 2006 and everything works smoothly Windows 10 isn't "the latest version" anymore, and they've dropped support for a ton of processors (actually, it's worse than that, they've intentionally broken support for a lot of processors). Some have fTPM that can be manually enabled, and it may or may not work or cause issues (stuttering, etc) without BIOS patches and other stuff that the vendor may not provide for legacy hardware, so even there it's hit or miss, but stuff from the 2006 era doesn't have fTPM at all and you'll have to do the microsoft equivalent of hackintosh. But yeah Android's support/device lifetime is egregiously bad, I'm not basing my OS on a custom build by some guy named xXxMark69xXx who posts on a web forum. Even Linux has official distributions that are expected to pretty much Just Work without modifications beyond installing some (audited, signed) driver packages, but the Android model means that it's simply not possible to "just install Lineage", you essentially must have someone customize it for each individual model. Android phones also usually have terrible spare-parts availability, unless you want to buy a wish.com-tier battery that will have half of its advertised capacity out of the box, and pillow up before six months have passed. It simply is not possible to buy quality battery replacements outside of the OEM supply chains (I've pointed this out here on HN as a business opportunity every time the topic comes up) whether it's phone or laptops or anything else. And the OEM supply chains are just not there, despite every opportunity for vendors to "just use standardized parts" like people are saying. At the end of the day I'm perfectly happy to just pay Apple 50 bucks so that a technician can put a new battery into my 4-year-old phone and I'll know it's OEM tier and that the waterproofing/etc will be done right and that they won't shatter the back and so on. Not the place I want to try and save 20 bucks in my life anymore.
  - 4y ago
hollandheese 4y ago
Just because other companies are screwing over customers more doesn't mean Apple isn't behaving in a hostile manner to customers. >A 2015 MacBook can still run the newest OS. Big freaking deal, a 2003 Athlon 64 machine can still run modern Linux distros. Until Microsoft went scorched earth with Windows 11, computers from 2006 could still run the most recent version of Windows. Apple has the SHORTEST OS support window for desktops and laptops overall. My 2009 Macbook can run Windows 10 21H1 (2021) but can only run up to 10.11 (2015). All of 6 years of OS support from Apple, but 12 from Microsoft and 13 from Linux.
- windowsrookie 4y ago
  Actually you can run the newest OS on your 2009 MacBook, its not official, but it is possible and runs OK. Same as running Windows 11 on older unsupported hardware. https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/ https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/ I'm running OS 10.13 on a 2008 MacBook right now (officially supports 10.11). Using: http://dosdude1.com/software.html http://dosdude1.com/software.html It runs great, beyond 10.13 the OS seems to run slower tho. It's not necessary at this point, because every App I use still supports 10.11 (including VS code). But knowing I can get several more years out of this Machine is nice.
  - hollandheese 4y ago
    Yes, I know you can hack it on there. Just like you can hack Android 12 on a Samsung Galaxy S3. But that's not the point. The point is the official support for the device, which was only 6 years. Also, I did use dosdude's software to hack 10.13 on my 2009 MacBook and it ran like crap and the touchpad driver was total crap.
    - windowsrookie 4y ago
      Microsoft has dropped support for 7th gen Intel processors. They were released in August of 2016, and sold well into 2017. Apple is still supporting 2015 MacBooks with 4th gen processors. Again, Apple is supporting their devices longer than anyone else. Dosdude1's software runs great on this 2008 MacBook. It runs exactly like Apple made it. Touchpad is no different and all gestures work perfectly. Not sure what went wrong in your case.

kurupt213 4y ago

Microsoft supports hardware way longer than apple, and many more configurations

simonh 4y ago

You can’t argue with these people. Almost double the software support period and average device service life of the nearest competitors still counts as ‘planned obsolescence’, yet none of those competitors get dinged for their device lifetimes. It’s complete dislocation from reality.

user_7832 4y ago
Mate did you even read my comment before replying? > yet none of those competitors get dinged for their device lifetimes. It’s complete dislocation from reality. I literally said that if Apple is the best the rest (the "standard" or bar) is underground. To paraphrase/reiterate: I think other companies are doing an even shittier job. > It’s complete dislocation from reality. I must concur.
- simonh 4y ago
  My point is even when they go to far greater lengths than the others, they’re still criticised (including by you) of actively reducing device lifetime. That is absurd. Vague references to a ‘bar’ without even mentioning their competitors even as a genetic group is hardly equivalent to targeted named criticism of the company.
DSingularity 4y ago
Considering their full lifetime, it works out to basically you can own these devices for less than a dollar a day. I appreciate that I am not getting gauged by the manufacturer just so I can stay in the ecosystem. Doubt I would say the same about other companies.

user_7832 4y ago

I replied to another comment here as well on a similar note - software is just one half of the picture, and needs proper hardware. Apple makes hardware that looks good in advertisements - even if it comes at the cost of consumer benefit (see: Apple's unbraided charging cable failure issue amongst others). They are very happy to support your device... as long as their poorly designed hardware doesn't fail (specific example from Louis Rossman's video - at 48V power cable to the display next to the sensitive data lines.) Apple know cares about customers as long as it doesn't hurt its PR, much like the vast majority of profit-driven companies.

windowsrookie 4y ago
Applecare+ can now be extended "indefinitely" (we don't know yet how long, but likely around ~7 years). Cost varies from $35-150/year depending on the device. So you can now have your apple hardware covered under warranty for longer than any other manufacturer, along with having longer software support than any other manufacturer. Applecare+ also includes two "accidental damage" incidents per year. So you can throw your 7 year old Macbook out a window or into the ocean twice a year and Apple will repair it. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/applecare-coverage-for-mac-can-now-be-extended-beyond-three-years.2292630/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/applecare-coverage-for-... I am not an Apple die-hard fanboy. I personally used many Android devices, a Dell XPS 15, and a custom built PC until last year (switched to an iPhone 13 and M1 Air). But Apple is providing longer software and hardware support than any other company right now, and I really don't understand how you can still complain.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  It's a substantially different kind of 'warranty' coverage when you're paying a significant fraction of the device's value every year.
  - mynameisvlad 4y ago
    It's still more than what's even available for the competitors. It's easy to be pessimistic, but show me any phone manufacturer that offers extended support past 3 years. Hell, even computers hardly will come with more than that as an option.

AussieWog93 4y ago

As another person here commented, just because Apple is less bad than other companies it doesn't mean they're not bad. There's really no justification as to why I can install the latest version of Windows 10 on a computer from 2006 and everything works smoothly, but if I try to install Android 12 on a device from 2 years ago then everything turns to shit.

paulmd 4y ago
> There's really no justification as to why I can install the latest version of Windows 10 on a computer from 2006 and everything works smoothly Windows 10 isn't "the latest version" anymore, and they've dropped support for a ton of processors (actually, it's worse than that, they've intentionally broken support for a lot of processors). Some have fTPM that can be manually enabled, and it may or may not work or cause issues (stuttering, etc) without BIOS patches and other stuff that the vendor may not provide for legacy hardware, so even there it's hit or miss, but stuff from the 2006 era doesn't have fTPM at all and you'll have to do the microsoft equivalent of hackintosh. But yeah Android's support/device lifetime is egregiously bad, I'm not basing my OS on a custom build by some guy named xXxMark69xXx who posts on a web forum. Even Linux has official distributions that are expected to pretty much Just Work without modifications beyond installing some (audited, signed) driver packages, but the Android model means that it's simply not possible to "just install Lineage", you essentially must have someone customize it for each individual model. Android phones also usually have terrible spare-parts availability, unless you want to buy a wish.com-tier battery that will have half of its advertised capacity out of the box, and pillow up before six months have passed. It simply is not possible to buy quality battery replacements outside of the OEM supply chains (I've pointed this out here on HN as a business opportunity every time the topic comes up) whether it's phone or laptops or anything else. And the OEM supply chains are just not there, despite every opportunity for vendors to "just use standardized parts" like people are saying. At the end of the day I'm perfectly happy to just pay Apple 50 bucks so that a technician can put a new battery into my 4-year-old phone and I'll know it's OEM tier and that the waterproofing/etc will be done right and that they won't shatter the back and so on. Not the place I want to try and save 20 bucks in my life anymore.
- 4y ago

hollandheese 4y ago

Just because other companies are screwing over customers more doesn't mean Apple isn't behaving in a hostile manner to customers. >A 2015 MacBook can still run the newest OS. Big freaking deal, a 2003 Athlon 64 machine can still run modern Linux distros. Until Microsoft went scorched earth with Windows 11, computers from 2006 could still run the most recent version of Windows. Apple has the SHORTEST OS support window for desktops and laptops overall. My 2009 Macbook can run Windows 10 21H1 (2021) but can only run up to 10.11 (2015). All of 6 years of OS support from Apple, but 12 from Microsoft and 13 from Linux.

windowsrookie 4y ago
Actually you can run the newest OS on your 2009 MacBook, its not official, but it is possible and runs OK. Same as running Windows 11 on older unsupported hardware. https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/ https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/ I'm running OS 10.13 on a 2008 MacBook right now (officially supports 10.11). Using: http://dosdude1.com/software.html http://dosdude1.com/software.html It runs great, beyond 10.13 the OS seems to run slower tho. It's not necessary at this point, because every App I use still supports 10.11 (including VS code). But knowing I can get several more years out of this Machine is nice.
- hollandheese 4y ago
  Yes, I know you can hack it on there. Just like you can hack Android 12 on a Samsung Galaxy S3. But that's not the point. The point is the official support for the device, which was only 6 years. Also, I did use dosdude's software to hack 10.13 on my 2009 MacBook and it ran like crap and the touchpad driver was total crap.
  - windowsrookie 4y ago
    Microsoft has dropped support for 7th gen Intel processors. They were released in August of 2016, and sold well into 2017. Apple is still supporting 2015 MacBooks with 4th gen processors. Again, Apple is supporting their devices longer than anyone else. Dosdude1's software runs great on this 2008 MacBook. It runs exactly like Apple made it. Touchpad is no different and all gestures work perfectly. Not sure what went wrong in your case.