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I have to fill out two timesheets in separate systems. What the fuck, 2022? I would have expected society to move beyond timesheets at all in this millennium. B

I have to fill out two timesheets in separate systems. What the fuck, 2022? I would have expected society to move beyond timesheets at all in this millennium. But the bean counters always win.

andrewmcwatters 4y ago
Timesheets are a fact of life, like taxes. Timesheets also have to exist in some organizations specifically because of taxes. Many organizations capitalize software.
fxtentacle 4y ago
I require my employees to check in and out using an online time-tracking tool. Not because I'm evil, but because my office safety insurance requires me to document when people come and go, presumably so that they can refuse paying for someone falling off their chair in their free time. Plus I need precise per-day hour metrics for tax filings.
- krageon 4y ago
  It is your prerogative to not work with a company that requires you to track people who don't have much of a choice (because let's face it: Laziness is evil, and most corporations are just as lazy :) ).
- scsilver 4y ago
  Could you elaborate on the tax aspect?
  - fxtentacle 4y ago
    I never bothered with the details. But it was recently confirmed in EU ruling C-55/18 [1]. Plus the government sends someone to check my documentation every 4 years and then they'll calculate their expected employee salaries down to the penny and force me to issue refunds if that diverges from my company's calculation, so I know from experience that they are super strict about it. [1] https://curia.europa.eu/juris/documents.jsf?num=C-55/18 https://curia.europa.eu/juris/documents.jsf?num=C-55/18
- version_five 4y ago
  Those are just excuses and bad ones. You could change insurers- not everyone has this kind of tracking, there are clearly ways around it. Presumably your company doesn't value employee autonomy very highly so they were fine with whatever calculation led to your particular policy. Same with the tax filing stuff. You could ask employees to do a time sheet (still shitty but at least transfers trust), or you could look at other solutions. So I don't think you're evil, but the culture you're in is one that doesn't really care about putting administrative burden on employees or about robbing them of autonomy and privacy. Apathy is not always evil, but its definitely a lame excuse and we should all strive for better. (As an aside, "the insurance company made us" basically summarizes everything that's wrong with our culture. Making decision based on someone else's profit driven risk aversion is directly responsible for how lame we've all become and will eventually lead to us being conquered by societies that don't have such hangups)
  - fxtentacle 4y ago
    > You could change insurers- not everyone has this kind of tracking As far as I know, all of the company insurances require pretty strict documentation of when who was working (or not) because the difference between "I fell of my office chair during my free time" and "I fell of my chair while working" is financially significant for them. I did check the major ones because I also thought it's irritating - and I mean I'm legally an employee, too, so this directly affects me - but I couldn't find a better offer. I fully agree with you that their risk aversion shouldn't force me to change my behavior, but then again, I have to accept this level of bullshit from pretty much every large supplier, because my company is too small for them to take me seriously.
  - bryanrasmussen 4y ago
    >Same with the tax filing stuff. evidently the poster is in the EU, not sure if you are but different regulatory regimes can of course significantly affect how you have to do things.

I have to fill out two timesheets in separate systems. What the fuck, 2022? I would have expected society to move beyond timesheets at all in this millennium. But the bean counters always win.

andrewmcwatters 4y ago

Timesheets are a fact of life, like taxes. Timesheets also have to exist in some organizations specifically because of taxes. Many organizations capitalize software.

fxtentacle 4y ago

I require my employees to check in and out using an online time-tracking tool. Not because I'm evil, but because my office safety insurance requires me to document when people come and go, presumably so that they can refuse paying for someone falling off their chair in their free time. Plus I need precise per-day hour metrics for tax filings.

krageon 4y ago
It is your prerogative to not work with a company that requires you to track people who don't have much of a choice (because let's face it: Laziness is evil, and most corporations are just as lazy :) ).
scsilver 4y ago
Could you elaborate on the tax aspect?
- fxtentacle 4y ago
  I never bothered with the details. But it was recently confirmed in EU ruling C-55/18 [1]. Plus the government sends someone to check my documentation every 4 years and then they'll calculate their expected employee salaries down to the penny and force me to issue refunds if that diverges from my company's calculation, so I know from experience that they are super strict about it. [1] https://curia.europa.eu/juris/documents.jsf?num=C-55/18 https://curia.europa.eu/juris/documents.jsf?num=C-55/18
version_five 4y ago
Those are just excuses and bad ones. You could change insurers- not everyone has this kind of tracking, there are clearly ways around it. Presumably your company doesn't value employee autonomy very highly so they were fine with whatever calculation led to your particular policy. Same with the tax filing stuff. You could ask employees to do a time sheet (still shitty but at least transfers trust), or you could look at other solutions. So I don't think you're evil, but the culture you're in is one that doesn't really care about putting administrative burden on employees or about robbing them of autonomy and privacy. Apathy is not always evil, but its definitely a lame excuse and we should all strive for better. (As an aside, "the insurance company made us" basically summarizes everything that's wrong with our culture. Making decision based on someone else's profit driven risk aversion is directly responsible for how lame we've all become and will eventually lead to us being conquered by societies that don't have such hangups)
- fxtentacle 4y ago
  > You could change insurers- not everyone has this kind of tracking As far as I know, all of the company insurances require pretty strict documentation of when who was working (or not) because the difference between "I fell of my office chair during my free time" and "I fell of my chair while working" is financially significant for them. I did check the major ones because I also thought it's irritating - and I mean I'm legally an employee, too, so this directly affects me - but I couldn't find a better offer. I fully agree with you that their risk aversion shouldn't force me to change my behavior, but then again, I have to accept this level of bullshit from pretty much every large supplier, because my company is too small for them to take me seriously.
- bryanrasmussen 4y ago
  >Same with the tax filing stuff. evidently the poster is in the EU, not sure if you are but different regulatory regimes can of course significantly affect how you have to do things.