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So, former WGU student here, though I hadn't completed my degree. Many WGU students HATE these types of articles, because they undermine the legitimacy of WGU.

So, former WGU student here, though I hadn't completed my degree. Many WGU students HATE these types of articles, because they undermine the legitimacy of WGU. WGU was not designed for traditional students, it was 100% designed for working professionals, where WGU will only admit you with a reasonable amount of experience in your field. WGU is regionally accredited, not nationally, and it's a non-profit. So it cannot be compared to University of Phoenix, ITT Tech, DeVry, etc. It was founded by a group of governors out west, hence the name. They realized that there were many working adults who possessed a great depth of knowledge, from long working in their fields, yet they had no paper credentials to show for that knowledge. Their model is competency-based, so you must demonstrate you posses knowledge in any given domain. If you can prove you do then you can test out right away, if you fail to then they offer a variety of resources to allow you to get up to par. In many cases classes are tied to obtaining industry certifications. It's not for everyone, but it is a far cry from a "degree mill." Does it really matter if a person that has knowledge got it from sitting in a seat, paying ungodly amounts of tuition, or if they got it from life experience? As long as a bar is set, and you can meet it, then that should be what really matters. Just my personal experience, from having attended the university. Unfortunately life sidetracked my completion, but I hope to return one day soon, and complete my program.

andi999 4y ago
Is it accepted overseas? I read most degrees from wgu are not recognized in europe.
- no_wizard 4y ago
  Don't see how, because the accreditation system is setup as such that they should see them as any other university that is regionally accredited.
  - andi999 4y ago
    https://www.reddit.com/r/WGU/comments/pjisyd/any_idea_why_most_bsc_programs_and_not_recognized/ https://www.reddit.com/r/WGU/comments/pjisyd/any_idea_why_mo... There seems to be some discussion how european country like to have a stronger accreditation, so that is why I am asking what really is the case.
- tibbon 4y ago
  I guess what do you mean by “recognize”? I’ve reviewed hundreds of resumes, and never dug into the regional vs national accreditation for a degree. You recognize the big names, and otherwise just generally say “seems they have a CS degree” Is that different in Europe?
  - Raed667 4y ago
    They do check if you're applying for a certain VISA based on your skills or job. Some companies do also check when they need an "accredited" engineer for some compliance reasons.
  - andi999 4y ago
    I think for EU blue card you need to find your degree from your varsity in some database, to successfully apply.
    - VMtest 4y ago
      Glad to see somebody mentioned this, I asked about this in another comment regarding georgia tech online master https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31182962 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31182962
      - andi999 4y ago
        I had a look. Germany has this database: https://anabin.kmk.org/no_cache/filter/institutionen.html https://anabin.kmk.org/no_cache/filter/institutionen.html So Georgia Tech is rated H+ which usually means all recognized (but a lot of text one should read, to check if online degrees are ok) WGU is H+/- with a warning for online degrees which recognize life experience. One should expect to get the recognition application rejected.
        sarchertech 4y ago
        Georgia Tech doesn’t make a distinction between the online and on campus degrees. You don’t get an online degree from GA Tech, you just get a degree from GA Tech.
- Isthatablackgsd 4y ago
  I don't believe so because it is not nationally accredited. If the college are not nationally accredited, then it is highly likely that universities in Europe will not recognize WGU. Unless the institution have a formal agreement (Articulation Agreement) with WGU to transfer.
  - AviationAtom 4y ago
    As I recall national accreditation is the weaker of the two, and regional is preferred, but someone correct me if I am mistaken.
    - fellowniusmonk 4y ago
      Regional accreditation is the stronger accreditation. This is an example of a federal accreditation group: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnational_Association_of_Christian_Colleges_and_Schools https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnational_Association_of_C...
  - AviationAtom 4y ago
    That said, WGU does not do traditional GPAs, as I recall, which can cause issues with transfers. It's more of a pass/fail. Trying to transfer credits is generally not advised, as I recall, instead you would want to complete your degree with WGU.
    - no_wizard 4y ago
      They have a policy for anyone seeking your transcriptions of just marking everything as a "B" (3.0 GPA) on everything.
      - leereeves 4y ago
        That's ok for transfers, but a 3.0 GPA would make it difficult to go to graduate school.
        4y ago
- AviationAtom 4y ago
  I'd defer to no_wizard's comment, as I'm just not really sure how various overseas institutions go about recognizing/giving equivalency. I know American institutions can be very picky about what they accept, so they could be similar. Unless the standards are drastically different I feel any institution failing to recognize an education from another seems wrong, but that's a whole different rant. I think the education system everywhere has much catching up to do with modern society. It used to be that much professional knowledge could really only be obtained in the classroom, now anyone with a desire and access to the Internet can learn much outside a classroom environment.
  - Aeolun 4y ago
    > Unless the standards are drastically different Kinda seems like my 4 years’ bachelor degree and whatever this ‘uni’ in the article is have radically different standards of what constitutes a degree.
blagie 4y ago
I didn't read the article that way (although it's clear many posters did). The author learned a lot independently. There's a question of what to do with that knowledge. A system like WGU does a few things: 1) Identify gaps and help fill them. Independent learners almost always develop gaps. One benefits from bringing that knowledge to a uniform "undergrad CS degree" level 2) Provide a certification once that's done. A traditional university degree takes 4 years, costs $200k, and has mixed quality. Being able to do 75% of that independently, and having an institution gap-fill for a few grand? That sounds awesome. For brand recognition, I don't see WGU as any better or worse than the 4500+ other random universities and colleges in the US. It doesn't match the top few hundred, but that's okay. Most don't. I'm not sure who would compare it to Phoenix, ITT Tech, DeVry, or other scams like that. I'd much more place WGU as more a competitor to ASU. ASU is awesome, and is really trying to pioneer models of innovative, quality, low-cost, scalable education. I hope one of them succeeds. By the way, yourself being a former WGU student, would you recommend WGU to a super-gifted kid? E.g. having someone start college there at e.g. age 13? That, plus CMU OMSCS, seems like something they could finish by age 17. Socially, I'm not sure they'd do well starting traditional college early. Academically, middle / high school seems like a waste of time.
- jwilber 4y ago
  Doesn’t starting someone at 13 fly in the face of the whole “prerequisite experience learned on the job” bit?
  - macksd 4y ago
    "on the job"? Most likely. But I spent a lot of time and money getting a degree from an accredited university, where I was bored the whole time and maxing out the number of credit hours they would let me take while also working as much as I could. Why? Because I could've aced the first 2 years of CS classes by the time I was 13. I would imagine that's not uncommon among people who grew up with a hacker mindset and had the resources to explore it. I surely had gaps in my knowledge - not saying I didn't learn anything from the college experience. But I would love to live in a world where I didn't feel like I would, at some point, be better off with an accredited 4-year degree just to get or keep a job in the first place.
throw10920 4y ago
> Many WGU students HATE these types of articles, because they undermine the legitimacy of WGU. What is "these types of articles"? How does this one "undermine the legitimacy of WGU"? Even a cursory skim-through of the article would show that the author worked hard and learned all of the material that they then passed exams on at WGU. They don't make it out to be a "degree mill" in any way whatsoever.
- sandworm101 4y ago
  A headline stating that a 4-year degree can be earned in 3-months? That alone is a huge red flag suggesting a degree mill. Lack of national accreditation is red flag #2. I don't mean to say that this is a degree mill, but the nature of the article does raise reasonable suspicions. Alumni are rightly critical of such articles that make their school sound like something it probably is not.
  - AviationAtom 4y ago
    Read about national accreditation elsewhere in the comments. It is not what you think. Regional accreditation is more desirable.
    - skeeter2020 4y ago
      Only in the USA. The word "University" means absolutely nothing there.
      - SamBam 4y ago
        Yes, well the school in question is in the USA, so the specifics of USA's accreditation system are clearly what's relevant...
  - suresk 4y ago
    The speed at which you can get a degree can look like a red flag, but you are mistaken about the accreditation. Regional accreditation is actually what you want, not national. Most universities you think of are regionally accredited, whereas the for-profit ones that you can't transfer credit from are nationally accredited. Ie, Stanford = regionally accredited, DeVry = nationally acccredited. WGU is accredited by NWCCU, which is the same as the University of Utah, University of Washington, etc.. See: https://nwccu.org/member-institutions/directory/ https://nwccu.org/member-institutions/directory/
miguelrochefort 4y ago
For what it’s worth, many people reached out to me after reading the article to thank me for introducing them to the idea that they could earn their missing degree in less than 4 years and/or without student debt. Many of them are self-taught developers with decades of experience that can’t move up the corporate ladder, work abroad, or pursue graduate studies because they lack this important piece of paper.
- skeeter2020 4y ago
  >> or pursue graduate studies because they lack this important piece of paper. It's pretty disingenious to imply the only thing traditional degree-holding grad students have over somebody with only industry is a "piece of paper". I say this as a former grad student who (with a degree) came out of industry. There are plenty of underwhelming students with only academic experience, but if you had industry-credit and a few terms, where would you get the other skills that I'd argue are far more important than practical experience?
  - wpietri 4y ago
    They did not imply that. They just said the piece of paper was a barrier to other things they wanted to do. That's the situation I'm in, and somebody recently suggested I check out WGU. I was thinking of doing a Master's degree, and it is an absolute bedrock requirement everywhere I've looked that you have a Bachelor's to apply to the Master's program. Would I get more out of spending 8 years doing a BS part time in the traditional way? I'm sure. Am I going to do that just so I can do a Master's? Fuck no. But if I can get the piece of paper in 6 months, that's starting to seem doable.
    - barry-cotter 4y ago
      As well as the options willhslade mentioned you can also do individual Master’s modules as distance learning with the University of London International Programme and then transfer to the Master’s programme proper.
    - willhslade 4y ago
dimgl 4y ago
Hey, does this exist for video game animation? I was extremely disappointed with an online school I recently went to for video game animation (the classes were way too spread apart and while the modeling sections were interesting, I really just need to work on animation for the models I purchased). I know this is tangentially related, but this was so demoralizing I kind of gave up on game dev altogether.
gzer0 4y ago
> WGU is regionally accredited, not nationally, and it's a non-profit. So it cannot be compared to University of Phoenix, ITT Tech, DeVry, etc. Just want to point out for those that may not know, 85% of universities in the U.S. are regionally accredited [1]. Regional accreditation, which WGU has, is the most prestigious and widely-recognized [1]. Some folks may mistake that nationally is "better", but, as you'll see from the link below, that simply is not the case. [1] https://www.online.drexel.edu/news/national-vs-regional-accreditation.aspx https://www.online.drexel.edu/news/national-vs-regional-accr...
PheonixPharts 4y ago
This sounds like a surprisingly good idea, something I hope we see more of (but of course I'll remain pessimistic). What's crazy to me is that it wasn't always the case that you had to go through the formal process of school to achieve credentialing. If you were truly exceptional, and could prove that, you could then get the required credential. For example it used to be the case that you didn't need to go to law school to take the bar exam. You still don't in a few US states. Law school might make it a million times easier to learn the law and pass, but if you already know it why not go straight to the test? Another, admittedly extreme, case was Ludwig Wittgenstein getting his PhD from Trinity College. He had already written the Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus on his own, then basically showed up and presented it as his dissertation, defended it, mocked his friend Bertrand Russel during defense and got the PhD. What's crazy to me is that if Wittgenstein was alive today he would not be able to achieve this anywhere. There are plenty of people out there who have done ground breaking work in their field, but because of the orthodoxy today, have zero chance of getting a PhD without going through the entire process. There's such a huge difference between schools saying "you technically don't need us to get the credential, but it's going to be much, much harder to go it your own way" than "it doesn't matter what you do, if you don't sit here and play by our rules you will never be recognized". This is where it's hard not to get pretty cynical about the state of higher education today.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- mkl 4y ago
  > Another, admittedly extreme, case was Ludwig Wittgenstein getting his PhD from Trinity College. He had already written the Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus on his own, then basically showed up and presented it as his dissertation, defended it, mocked his friend Bertrand Russel during defense and got the PhD. > What's crazy to me is that if Wittgenstein was alive today he would not be able to achieve this anywhere. Not so. Cambridge still does it, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey_de_Grey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey_de_Grey in 2000.
scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago
So the key difference you’re describing between this and a degree mill is that you’re expected to already possess the knowledge. And maybe organize it a little bit or fill in the blanks. As opposed to cramming it, or blowing through it too fast for it to amount to anything. This makes sense. I can imagine traditional universities offering this sort of thing everywhere.
lr4444lr 4y ago
I have to ask: what mechanisms are in place to thwart cheating? Specifically, paying for someone to take all those tests in your stead. Though it's possible to cheat at traditional universities in individual courses, it becomes increasingly hard over the duration demanded for attendance even on an accelerated schedule for lots of small reasons that add up.
- miguelrochefort 4y ago
  Every exam is proctored: - A live human proctor watches your screen and webcam the whole time. - You need to show a 360 degree view of your room, walls, ceiling, table, floor, ears, scratch paper, etc. - You must use an external webcam elevated on a stand that can see both you and your screen at all times. - You must show your face and your passport or ID card before each exam. - You can’t talk, stand up, get out of view, or take a break during the exam. Although I’m sure some people could find a way to cheat, they make it extremely difficult. I have taken over 30 online proctored exams from WGU, Study.com, Sophia.org, Saylor.org, TOEFL, and Georgia Tech’s OMSCS, and I can confidently say that WGU’s proctoring process was by far the strictest.
  - digisign 4y ago
    Oh hell no. Too bad, was considering it until this.
arkades 4y ago
> Many WGU students HATE these types of articles, because they undermine the legitimacy of WGU. > Their model is competency-based, so you must demonstrate you posses knowledge in any given domain. The guy took courses at college, online, and worked in the field for over a decade before speedrunning WGU. It seems to me he’s the exact model of “demonstrating competence” that you mention - I don’t see how that makes WGU out to be a degree mill.
mrslave 4y ago
> Many WGU students HATE these types of articles, because they undermine the legitimacy of WGU. New headline incoming: > WGU graduates HATE this! Learn their SECRET, how YOU TOO could GRADUATE IN LESS THAN 3 MONTHS FOR ONLY $5,000
johnnyanmac 4y ago
>As long as a bar is set that's a big problem in software TBF. The bar is all over which ways and changes dramatically based on the domain. If we can't agree on a bar, there's not much point in the endless arguments that result while pointing to our own interpretations > Does it really matter if a person that has knowledge got it from sitting in a seat, paying ungodly amounts of tuition, or if they got it from life experience? well, the real life experience is much more preferable. But the general model of professional industries unfortunately require sitting in a seat for years and getting a piece of paper before resetting 80% of what you learned with imperfect realities. I'm glad there is an option like this for a developer thrown out of the market without a degree to fast track their way to that piece of paper, but it's a shame that piece of paper is held in such high regards
TMWNN 4y ago
>So, former WGU student here, though I hadn't completed my degree. You also hadn't completed reading the article. The author covers all of your points in a positive way that in no way describes the institution as a "degree mill".

andi999 4y ago

Is it accepted overseas? I read most degrees from wgu are not recognized in europe.

no_wizard 4y ago
Don't see how, because the accreditation system is setup as such that they should see them as any other university that is regionally accredited.
- andi999 4y ago
  https://www.reddit.com/r/WGU/comments/pjisyd/any_idea_why_most_bsc_programs_and_not_recognized/ https://www.reddit.com/r/WGU/comments/pjisyd/any_idea_why_mo... There seems to be some discussion how european country like to have a stronger accreditation, so that is why I am asking what really is the case.
tibbon 4y ago
I guess what do you mean by “recognize”? I’ve reviewed hundreds of resumes, and never dug into the regional vs national accreditation for a degree. You recognize the big names, and otherwise just generally say “seems they have a CS degree” Is that different in Europe?
- Raed667 4y ago
  They do check if you're applying for a certain VISA based on your skills or job. Some companies do also check when they need an "accredited" engineer for some compliance reasons.
- andi999 4y ago
  I think for EU blue card you need to find your degree from your varsity in some database, to successfully apply.
  - VMtest 4y ago
    Glad to see somebody mentioned this, I asked about this in another comment regarding georgia tech online master https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31182962 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31182962
    - andi999 4y ago
      I had a look. Germany has this database: https://anabin.kmk.org/no_cache/filter/institutionen.html https://anabin.kmk.org/no_cache/filter/institutionen.html So Georgia Tech is rated H+ which usually means all recognized (but a lot of text one should read, to check if online degrees are ok) WGU is H+/- with a warning for online degrees which recognize life experience. One should expect to get the recognition application rejected.
      - sarchertech 4y ago
        Georgia Tech doesn’t make a distinction between the online and on campus degrees. You don’t get an online degree from GA Tech, you just get a degree from GA Tech.
Isthatablackgsd 4y ago
I don't believe so because it is not nationally accredited. If the college are not nationally accredited, then it is highly likely that universities in Europe will not recognize WGU. Unless the institution have a formal agreement (Articulation Agreement) with WGU to transfer.
- AviationAtom 4y ago
  As I recall national accreditation is the weaker of the two, and regional is preferred, but someone correct me if I am mistaken.
  - fellowniusmonk 4y ago
    Regional accreditation is the stronger accreditation. This is an example of a federal accreditation group: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnational_Association_of_Christian_Colleges_and_Schools https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnational_Association_of_C...
- AviationAtom 4y ago
  That said, WGU does not do traditional GPAs, as I recall, which can cause issues with transfers. It's more of a pass/fail. Trying to transfer credits is generally not advised, as I recall, instead you would want to complete your degree with WGU.
  - no_wizard 4y ago
    They have a policy for anyone seeking your transcriptions of just marking everything as a "B" (3.0 GPA) on everything.
    - leereeves 4y ago
      That's ok for transfers, but a 3.0 GPA would make it difficult to go to graduate school.
      - 4y ago
AviationAtom 4y ago
I'd defer to no_wizard's comment, as I'm just not really sure how various overseas institutions go about recognizing/giving equivalency. I know American institutions can be very picky about what they accept, so they could be similar. Unless the standards are drastically different I feel any institution failing to recognize an education from another seems wrong, but that's a whole different rant. I think the education system everywhere has much catching up to do with modern society. It used to be that much professional knowledge could really only be obtained in the classroom, now anyone with a desire and access to the Internet can learn much outside a classroom environment.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  > Unless the standards are drastically different Kinda seems like my 4 years’ bachelor degree and whatever this ‘uni’ in the article is have radically different standards of what constitutes a degree.

blagie 4y ago

I didn't read the article that way (although it's clear many posters did). The author learned a lot independently. There's a question of what to do with that knowledge. A system like WGU does a few things: 1) Identify gaps and help fill them. Independent learners almost always develop gaps. One benefits from bringing that knowledge to a uniform "undergrad CS degree" level 2) Provide a certification once that's done. A traditional university degree takes 4 years, costs $200k, and has mixed quality. Being able to do 75% of that independently, and having an institution gap-fill for a few grand? That sounds awesome. For brand recognition, I don't see WGU as any better or worse than the 4500+ other random universities and colleges in the US. It doesn't match the top few hundred, but that's okay. Most don't. I'm not sure who would compare it to Phoenix, ITT Tech, DeVry, or other scams like that. I'd much more place WGU as more a competitor to ASU. ASU is awesome, and is really trying to pioneer models of innovative, quality, low-cost, scalable education. I hope one of them succeeds. By the way, yourself being a former WGU student, would you recommend WGU to a super-gifted kid? E.g. having someone start college there at e.g. age 13? That, plus CMU OMSCS, seems like something they could finish by age 17. Socially, I'm not sure they'd do well starting traditional college early. Academically, middle / high school seems like a waste of time.

jwilber 4y ago
Doesn’t starting someone at 13 fly in the face of the whole “prerequisite experience learned on the job” bit?
- macksd 4y ago
  "on the job"? Most likely. But I spent a lot of time and money getting a degree from an accredited university, where I was bored the whole time and maxing out the number of credit hours they would let me take while also working as much as I could. Why? Because I could've aced the first 2 years of CS classes by the time I was 13. I would imagine that's not uncommon among people who grew up with a hacker mindset and had the resources to explore it. I surely had gaps in my knowledge - not saying I didn't learn anything from the college experience. But I would love to live in a world where I didn't feel like I would, at some point, be better off with an accredited 4-year degree just to get or keep a job in the first place.

throw10920 4y ago

> Many WGU students HATE these types of articles, because they undermine the legitimacy of WGU. What is "these types of articles"? How does this one "undermine the legitimacy of WGU"? Even a cursory skim-through of the article would show that the author worked hard and learned all of the material that they then passed exams on at WGU. They don't make it out to be a "degree mill" in any way whatsoever.

sandworm101 4y ago
A headline stating that a 4-year degree can be earned in 3-months? That alone is a huge red flag suggesting a degree mill. Lack of national accreditation is red flag #2. I don't mean to say that this is a degree mill, but the nature of the article does raise reasonable suspicions. Alumni are rightly critical of such articles that make their school sound like something it probably is not.
- AviationAtom 4y ago
  Read about national accreditation elsewhere in the comments. It is not what you think. Regional accreditation is more desirable.
  - skeeter2020 4y ago
    Only in the USA. The word "University" means absolutely nothing there.
    - SamBam 4y ago
      Yes, well the school in question is in the USA, so the specifics of USA's accreditation system are clearly what's relevant...
- suresk 4y ago
  The speed at which you can get a degree can look like a red flag, but you are mistaken about the accreditation. Regional accreditation is actually what you want, not national. Most universities you think of are regionally accredited, whereas the for-profit ones that you can't transfer credit from are nationally accredited. Ie, Stanford = regionally accredited, DeVry = nationally acccredited. WGU is accredited by NWCCU, which is the same as the University of Utah, University of Washington, etc.. See: https://nwccu.org/member-institutions/directory/ https://nwccu.org/member-institutions/directory/

miguelrochefort 4y ago

For what it’s worth, many people reached out to me after reading the article to thank me for introducing them to the idea that they could earn their missing degree in less than 4 years and/or without student debt. Many of them are self-taught developers with decades of experience that can’t move up the corporate ladder, work abroad, or pursue graduate studies because they lack this important piece of paper.

skeeter2020 4y ago
>> or pursue graduate studies because they lack this important piece of paper. It's pretty disingenious to imply the only thing traditional degree-holding grad students have over somebody with only industry is a "piece of paper". I say this as a former grad student who (with a degree) came out of industry. There are plenty of underwhelming students with only academic experience, but if you had industry-credit and a few terms, where would you get the other skills that I'd argue are far more important than practical experience?
- wpietri 4y ago
  They did not imply that. They just said the piece of paper was a barrier to other things they wanted to do. That's the situation I'm in, and somebody recently suggested I check out WGU. I was thinking of doing a Master's degree, and it is an absolute bedrock requirement everywhere I've looked that you have a Bachelor's to apply to the Master's program. Would I get more out of spending 8 years doing a BS part time in the traditional way? I'm sure. Am I going to do that just so I can do a Master's? Fuck no. But if I can get the piece of paper in 6 months, that's starting to seem doable.
  - barry-cotter 4y ago
    As well as the options willhslade mentioned you can also do individual Master’s modules as distance learning with the University of London International Programme and then transfer to the Master’s programme proper.
  - willhslade 4y ago

dimgl 4y ago

Hey, does this exist for video game animation? I was extremely disappointed with an online school I recently went to for video game animation (the classes were way too spread apart and while the modeling sections were interesting, I really just need to work on animation for the models I purchased). I know this is tangentially related, but this was so demoralizing I kind of gave up on game dev altogether.

gzer0 4y ago

> WGU is regionally accredited, not nationally, and it's a non-profit. So it cannot be compared to University of Phoenix, ITT Tech, DeVry, etc. Just want to point out for those that may not know, 85% of universities in the U.S. are regionally accredited [1]. Regional accreditation, which WGU has, is the most prestigious and widely-recognized [1]. Some folks may mistake that nationally is "better", but, as you'll see from the link below, that simply is not the case. [1] https://www.online.drexel.edu/news/national-vs-regional-accreditation.aspx https://www.online.drexel.edu/news/national-vs-regional-accr...

PheonixPharts 4y ago

This sounds like a surprisingly good idea, something I hope we see more of (but of course I'll remain pessimistic). What's crazy to me is that it wasn't always the case that you had to go through the formal process of school to achieve credentialing. If you were truly exceptional, and could prove that, you could then get the required credential. For example it used to be the case that you didn't need to go to law school to take the bar exam. You still don't in a few US states. Law school might make it a million times easier to learn the law and pass, but if you already know it why not go straight to the test? Another, admittedly extreme, case was Ludwig Wittgenstein getting his PhD from Trinity College. He had already written the Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus on his own, then basically showed up and presented it as his dissertation, defended it, mocked his friend Bertrand Russel during defense and got the PhD. What's crazy to me is that if Wittgenstein was alive today he would not be able to achieve this anywhere. There are plenty of people out there who have done ground breaking work in their field, but because of the orthodoxy today, have zero chance of getting a PhD without going through the entire process. There's such a huge difference between schools saying "you technically don't need us to get the credential, but it's going to be much, much harder to go it your own way" than "it doesn't matter what you do, if you don't sit here and play by our rules you will never be recognized". This is where it's hard not to get pretty cynical about the state of higher education today.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mkl 4y ago
> Another, admittedly extreme, case was Ludwig Wittgenstein getting his PhD from Trinity College. He had already written the Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus on his own, then basically showed up and presented it as his dissertation, defended it, mocked his friend Bertrand Russel during defense and got the PhD. > What's crazy to me is that if Wittgenstein was alive today he would not be able to achieve this anywhere. Not so. Cambridge still does it, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey_de_Grey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey_de_Grey in 2000.

scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago

So the key difference you’re describing between this and a degree mill is that you’re expected to already possess the knowledge. And maybe organize it a little bit or fill in the blanks. As opposed to cramming it, or blowing through it too fast for it to amount to anything. This makes sense. I can imagine traditional universities offering this sort of thing everywhere.

lr4444lr 4y ago

I have to ask: what mechanisms are in place to thwart cheating? Specifically, paying for someone to take all those tests in your stead. Though it's possible to cheat at traditional universities in individual courses, it becomes increasingly hard over the duration demanded for attendance even on an accelerated schedule for lots of small reasons that add up.

miguelrochefort 4y ago
Every exam is proctored: - A live human proctor watches your screen and webcam the whole time. - You need to show a 360 degree view of your room, walls, ceiling, table, floor, ears, scratch paper, etc. - You must use an external webcam elevated on a stand that can see both you and your screen at all times. - You must show your face and your passport or ID card before each exam. - You can’t talk, stand up, get out of view, or take a break during the exam. Although I’m sure some people could find a way to cheat, they make it extremely difficult. I have taken over 30 online proctored exams from WGU, Study.com, Sophia.org, Saylor.org, TOEFL, and Georgia Tech’s OMSCS, and I can confidently say that WGU’s proctoring process was by far the strictest.
- digisign 4y ago
  Oh hell no. Too bad, was considering it until this.

arkades 4y ago

> Many WGU students HATE these types of articles, because they undermine the legitimacy of WGU. > Their model is competency-based, so you must demonstrate you posses knowledge in any given domain. The guy took courses at college, online, and worked in the field for over a decade before speedrunning WGU. It seems to me he’s the exact model of “demonstrating competence” that you mention - I don’t see how that makes WGU out to be a degree mill.

mrslave 4y ago

> Many WGU students HATE these types of articles, because they undermine the legitimacy of WGU. New headline incoming: > WGU graduates HATE this! Learn their SECRET, how YOU TOO could GRADUATE IN LESS THAN 3 MONTHS FOR ONLY $5,000

johnnyanmac 4y ago

>As long as a bar is set that's a big problem in software TBF. The bar is all over which ways and changes dramatically based on the domain. If we can't agree on a bar, there's not much point in the endless arguments that result while pointing to our own interpretations > Does it really matter if a person that has knowledge got it from sitting in a seat, paying ungodly amounts of tuition, or if they got it from life experience? well, the real life experience is much more preferable. But the general model of professional industries unfortunately require sitting in a seat for years and getting a piece of paper before resetting 80% of what you learned with imperfect realities. I'm glad there is an option like this for a developer thrown out of the market without a degree to fast track their way to that piece of paper, but it's a shame that piece of paper is held in such high regards

TMWNN 4y ago

>So, former WGU student here, though I hadn't completed my degree. You also hadn't completed reading the article. The author covers all of your points in a positive way that in no way describes the institution as a "degree mill".