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I don’t necessarily agree with the proposal in california, but do all students need to take calculus in high school? What about solid coverage of algebra 2 and

I don’t necessarily agree with the proposal in california, but do all students need to take calculus in high school? What about solid coverage of algebra 2 and pre calc before higher education. Community college is a great place to take a calc class (or even a pre calc class) affordably. Source: took pre calc, calc and stat in community college after being signalled to that I was terrible at math throughout high school.

andrewprock 4y ago
No one is suggesting that all students take calculus in high school. What is being recommend is that no one take calculus in high school. Both of these ideas are bad, but only one of them informs the California Math Framework.
- AlchemistCamp 4y ago
  > No one is suggesting that all students take calculus in high school. It’s very commonly taught in 10th grade in France, Germany, Singapore and Taiwan (where I used to teach). It’s not universal by any means but as far as I can tell, the idea that calculus should be delayed until university is a nearly uniquely American idea. https://www.mathvalues.org/masterblog/calculus-around-the-world?format=amp https://www.mathvalues.org/masterblog/calculus-around-the-wo...
  - zozbot234 4y ago
    "Very commonly" in STEM-focused prep schools (i.e. the "academic" part of the tracked education system that's common outside the US). Which leaves you with very roughly the same percentages as the U.S. approach where Calculus is an elective course.
    - AlchemistCamp 4y ago
      > roughly the same percentages as the U.S. approach where Calculus is an elective course I can’t speak with certainty about other places but this directly contradicts my experience living most of the past 20 years in Taiwan (and speaking with friends who taught mathematics in the public school system). Many, many people not on a STEM track learn calculus in high school.
      - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        My wife did the fine art/liberal art at a good mainland Chinese high school and didn’t really learn calculus, and definitely not later on in the fine art university she went to. I get the feeling that most Chinese students don’t learn calculus, but the ones that do are still slot (since China has a huge student population).
csa 4y ago
> but do all students need to take calculus in high school? Imho, 50% or more of students don’t even need to take algebra. For that matter, that same number pretty much don’t even need to go to high school (although some sort of voluntary coop with practical skills training might be better than current high school or nothing). HS is glorified baby sitting for most students. It sometimes is useful for people who want to go to “competitive” schools or enter stem fields in slightly less competitive schools. As for your solution, learning math starting at algebra or pre-calc in a CC is fine if that is what the person needs for their chosen career path. I think the general idea is that the lack of calculus in high schools prunes the career path tree fairly aggressively in some relatively well-paid fields (esp. STEM).

andrewprock 4y ago

No one is suggesting that all students take calculus in high school. What is being recommend is that no one take calculus in high school. Both of these ideas are bad, but only one of them informs the California Math Framework.

AlchemistCamp 4y ago
> No one is suggesting that all students take calculus in high school. It’s very commonly taught in 10th grade in France, Germany, Singapore and Taiwan (where I used to teach). It’s not universal by any means but as far as I can tell, the idea that calculus should be delayed until university is a nearly uniquely American idea. https://www.mathvalues.org/masterblog/calculus-around-the-world?format=amp https://www.mathvalues.org/masterblog/calculus-around-the-wo...
- zozbot234 4y ago
  "Very commonly" in STEM-focused prep schools (i.e. the "academic" part of the tracked education system that's common outside the US). Which leaves you with very roughly the same percentages as the U.S. approach where Calculus is an elective course.
  - AlchemistCamp 4y ago
    > roughly the same percentages as the U.S. approach where Calculus is an elective course I can’t speak with certainty about other places but this directly contradicts my experience living most of the past 20 years in Taiwan (and speaking with friends who taught mathematics in the public school system). Many, many people not on a STEM track learn calculus in high school.
    - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
      My wife did the fine art/liberal art at a good mainland Chinese high school and didn’t really learn calculus, and definitely not later on in the fine art university she went to. I get the feeling that most Chinese students don’t learn calculus, but the ones that do are still slot (since China has a huge student population).

csa 4y ago

> but do all students need to take calculus in high school? Imho, 50% or more of students don’t even need to take algebra. For that matter, that same number pretty much don’t even need to go to high school (although some sort of voluntary coop with practical skills training might be better than current high school or nothing). HS is glorified baby sitting for most students. It sometimes is useful for people who want to go to “competitive” schools or enter stem fields in slightly less competitive schools. As for your solution, learning math starting at algebra or pre-calc in a CC is fine if that is what the person needs for their chosen career path. I think the general idea is that the lack of calculus in high schools prunes the career path tree fairly aggressively in some relatively well-paid fields (esp. STEM).