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Mastodon – A Federated Twitter Alternative

249 points by i5heu 4y ago

SEJeff 4y ago
For literally anyone who wants to setup a mastodon instance but hasn't yet, read this please: https://ethanzuckerman.com/2017/08/18/mastodon-is-big-in-japan-the-reason-why-is-uncomfortable/ https://ethanzuckerman.com/2017/08/18/mastodon-is-big-in-jap...
- geomark 4y ago
  That was an eye opener for someone who was thinking of setting up an instance. Obviously there are risks to federating posts from other instances, but I wasn't ready for this.
  - 3np 4y ago
    You could start with an allowlist approach; add servers to federation when you see they have content/people you want to connect with. Over time the list will grow. E.g. start with the biggest ones and maybe some that are specific to your interests. Over time you will see people resharing posts and commenting on threads from other instances and you can add those as well. If you run a server for other users you could have an account set up for your users to ping with servers they want you to add.
  - SEJeff 4y ago
    Yeah… it’s why I shut mine down fyi. Got tired of fighting that mess that I linked you to.
- INTPenis 4y ago
  Yeah if you want to make your small instance a bit more federated you'll start adding AP relays and then you'll suddenly see a flood of different asian languages. Probably mostly Japanese. And along with them will come a lot of hentai and weird porn. So when you add like 10 AP relays you'll spend several hours just silencing instances based on this. But once you're done you do get a very active federated timeline that will help your local users discover the rest of the fediverse. I almost ban any misskey instance I see with Japanese characters now, not becasuse they're all bad but because I can't see what the instance is about easily. It requires JS and it has no "About" or "Explore profile directory" section like Mastodon does.
camjohnson26 4y ago
DigitalOcean has a one click app that lets you setup a Mastodon instance ridiculously easily. For my own reasons I’m trying to migrate away from Twitter, and have found it relatively easy to sync Twitter profiles with a self hosted Mastodon instance so I can follow the accounts I’m interested in without directly interacting with Twitter. Configuring email sending and DNS is a little tricky, but if you use namecheap and mail gun it’s not too bad. I routinely on Twitter criticize Musk’s bad behavior and lies about the full self driving product, but semi anonymously since Musk and his fans have a history of doxxing and harassing critics: https://www.inverse.com/article/47461-elon-musk-responds-to-controversy-over-tesla-critic-montana-skeptic https://www.inverse.com/article/47461-elon-musk-responds-to-... His purchase of the platform makes me worried that my identity and private messages could be misused, so any alternative is much appreciated. Unfortunately it looks like Mastodon still hasn’t renamed their “toots” to “posts,” which sadly makes it impossible to recommend to others because there’s no way they’ll take it seriously in the US, due to the double meaning.
- JetAlone 4y ago
  >Unfortunately it looks like Mastodon still hasn’t renamed their “toots” Maybe we wouldn't have so many reasons to leave twitter if people had taken tweets less seriously in the first place. If everyone knows that artificially short posts with insanely widespread potential reach are all 屁s, that could help fix a lot of what's wrong in our world.
  - metamet 4y ago
    I suspect there's a limited number of people who want to be told so explicitly that they're just farting their thoughts out online.
    - rolandog 4y ago
      Well, if we overanalyze everything, the same could be said about the neediness of tweeting birds to get the attention of a possible partner [1]. [1] https://i.imgur.com/Ks17qEJ.png https://i.imgur.com/Ks17qEJ.png
tdhz77 4y ago
I wish I could be happy to use this, but I’m afraid big tech is just too big for me to jump ship. (Network effect) I’m starting to think that Government should think about breaking up social media sites or highly regulate them. The twitter Elon saga makes me think it will be impossible in the United States.
- Barrin92 4y ago
  >Government should think about breaking up social media sites or highly regulate them they don't need to do anything that drastic. They literally need to do one straight forward thing. Force Twitter to open up their API and let people build a bridge to ActivityPub. Hell Elon could do it if he is serious about decentralization.
  - xiphias2 4y ago
    He never really said decentralization, I’m not sure where you read it. He wants to identify people like Facebook does it to get rid of bots. At the same time at least he is greatly incentivised to get rid of car emissions, which is good enough reason for me to side with him instead of other people.
  - jfkimmes 4y ago
    The Digital Markets Act [1] was just passed in the EU. It does exactly that. Enforce interoperability for "gatekeepers". I think Twitter is not quite big enough, yet, though. [1]: https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/priorities-2019-2024/europe-fit-digital-age/digital-markets-act-ensuring-fair-and-open-digital-markets_en#what-are-the-benefits-of-the-digital-markets-act https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/priorities-2019-2024/euro...
  - mariusor 4y ago
    There are already bridges from twitter to activitypub, however most of the people in the fediverse feel themselves superior to twitter and actively discourage this. If there's a way for twitter to interop with activitypub you will most likely see instances specifically blacklisting it (especially if it becomes a free speech platform). Personally I don't understand why, the negativity and the assholes are already there but maybe in lesser numbers.
fdschoeneman 4y ago
I'm curious to know why there aren't more conservative or libertarian mastodon sites. Seems like a good fit.
- aaronbrethorst 4y ago
  https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/29/mastodon-issues-30-day-ultimatum-to-trumps-social-network-over-misuse-of-its-code/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/29/mastodon-issues-30-day-ult...
- Spellman 4y ago
  Most Conservatives have instead gone to platforms that actively advertise for their specific niche. Especially places like Gab and Parlar. Although Telegram has been a very popular gathering place as well. Libertarian Tech folks are actually a small minority in the grand scheme of things, and any I know are definitely in favor of Mastadon. But non-tech folks have a much harder time understanding and building out the platform.
  - _ehqz 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - bitstealer 4y ago
  - imron 4y ago
    > Especially places like Gab Gab runs on a Mastodon fork: https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2019/07/statement-on-gabs-fork-of-mastodon/ https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2019/07/statement-on-gabs-fork...
    - nextlevelwizard 4y ago
      Could be funny to see how many Mastodon instances have blocked them
andreyk 4y ago
I've used this a bit , but did not stick around due to lack of people i've wanted to follow. Hopefully this will get a lot of people over from Twitter, I'd love to use it instead... Also, if any HN community member would take it on themselves to create an HN instance (yes, some of us on HN like Twitter), would love to join that.
ramyarjahani 4y ago
[flagged]
sjmm1989 4y ago
- dotnet00 4y ago
  r/Outside is far from sane :p
  - eyelidlessness 4y ago
    1. Outside is great though, and quite underrated.
  - sjmm1989 4y ago
    That's not 'Outside' though. That's 'r/Outside'. These are very different things. :p Also... of course anything attached to reddit isn't sane. It has humans in it.
- lillecarl 4y ago
  > "Here's a much better alternative to Twitter. It's called 'Outside'. Try meeting some people in it. They tend to be sane, and friendly. Usually." 1. These are not mutually exclusive 2. Very condescending tone Yes being outside is great, but there are parts of the world where you spend half the year inside because of the cold(outside). There's also been a pandemic going on for quite awhile where in many parts of the world the "outside" has been severely restricted. People outside might not be discussing topics that you're interested in. I'm indifferent to both Mastodon and Twitter, but they both have their place in the world.
  - sjmm1989 4y ago
- chrisco255 4y ago
  Outside is great, but I recommend sticking to some remote nature trails and avoiding people altogether. People are crazy.
- INTPenis 4y ago
Abishek_Muthian 4y ago
Folks, What are your recommendations for some Mastodon communities which might be of interest to typical HN audience and are 'absolutely legal'?
- sohkamyung 4y ago
  For those with an interest in books, try BookWyrm [1]. It's a Mastodon instance that caters for books (think 'federated Goodreads'). I use it to put up my reviews of books and to find new books and bookish people. [1] https://bookwyrm.social/ https://bookwyrm.social/
  - gaius_baltar 4y ago
    Beware that Bookwyrm is distributed under the "Anticapitalist software license" [1] so you must be very veyr very careful before using it. It may be actually impossible to legally deploy it for a lot of people. [1] https://github.com/bookwyrm-social/bookwyrm/blob/main/LICENSE.md https://github.com/bookwyrm-social/bookwyrm/blob/main/LICENS...
- apetresc 4y ago
  I recommend https://fosstodon.org/ https://fosstodon.org/
  - themodelplumber 4y ago
    I'm curious, is there any reason to sign up here if one is already on another tech instance?
    - boyter 4y ago
      Its activity pub so no? Assuming they have not blocked either other you should just follow across the peers.
    - 3np 4y ago
      The only reason I see would be if you want your posts to reach people you don't know and who don't follow you; they will end up on the local timeline of the instance you're on. Conversely if you don't want to spend time with setting up relays/subscriptions (which can get you the same thing) and want to easily discover things on the local timeline there, the local GUI helps with that. IMO that Mastodon's timelines work this way by default for non-private instances is unfortunate as it conflates physical infrastructure with social community too much. Other than that it should all be the same. Theoretically you should also be able to set up "relay accounts" on foreign servers that can mirror your profile and just mirror/reshare your content there. It's not something I've seen already so you'd probably have to script your own bot for that.
jerojero 4y ago
I'm in an instance with a couple thousand users, it's not very active. I think network effects are extremely important and eventually you have most people going into the biggest instances anyway. Though obviously this is still a preferable situation, mastodon's reach is still not good enough. People don't just want to say things, they want to say things and have others engage with them. But I mean, I would still encourage at least trying it; exploring different instances, finding a home.
- nextlevelwizard 4y ago
  Isn't the whole point that you don't need to "explore different instances" since instances talk to each other?
- i5heu 4y ago
  The accumulation on one instance is not necessary, because there is almost no difference in the user experience between a local use and a Federated user. Also you can cross post to Twitter. This is what I opted to use. Just use the reach from Twitter, but the main thing is mastodon
- INTPenis 4y ago
  Where do you measure activity? I'm a small instance admin that has chosen to focus only on one particular type of user to grow slowly, and thanks to 10+ AP relays our federated timeline is very active. It does wonders for discoverability to see one message every second show up from all over the world.
refurb 4y ago
To me Twitter is like tabloid journalism - sometimes interesting to read, but lots of garbage. I don't need an alternative. If Twitter goes to crap I'll just stop using it and find something better to do with my time.
wraptile 4y ago
My favorite Mastodon feature is the ability to subscribe to hashtags [1] which makes discovering people to connect with super easy and you don't feel like a victim to some magic algorithm. Another thing I love about it is the small niche little community instances like this photographer [2] community. Themed instances make a huge difference in organizing your social media time - it feels less of a distraction and more of a purposeful exchange. I talk photos, close the browser tab and it feels like I've done what I set out to do, whereas whole purpose of Twitter is to steal your attention for the sake of ad revenue - so you start with a purpose and end up feeling like you've done free work for someone. Like one of those early internet gigs that made you to surf semi-random ads for few pennies. 1 - https://i.imgur.com/gXhLLPG.png https://i.imgur.com/gXhLLPG.png 2 - https://photog.social/ https://photog.social/
- brunoqc 4y ago
  > My favorite Mastodon feature is the ability to subscribe to hashtags [1] You need to enable "advanced web interface", search for a hashtag, click the top right icon and then pin it, right? I had no idea I could do that. Thanks! EDIT: I'm having a hard time adding tags like "#matrix", it insists on me using autocomplete and propose #matrixdotorg.
  - kertoip_1 4y ago
    Ahh, what a disappointment. Being able to subscribe to hashtags is the feature I wanted to see for so long and when I saw the first comment, I thought they did it finally. But no, it's not what I needed. It should not be called "subscribing hashtags", but "pinning" them
    - wraptile 4y ago
      That's what it is tho. You create a time-line filter that shows only posts containing those hashtags - is that not a subscription? There are also more literal implementations for this like SocialHome [1] where you can click + on hashtags you like and public post with them appear in your home timeline 1 - https://socialhome.network/ https://socialhome.network/
unicornporn 4y ago
My recommendation to anyone having difficulties getting started or finding interesting people: try to find a small instance that suits your interests. Mastodon got so much better for me when I left the generalist instances. I now see my instance as a micro community with the ability to connect to a greater community.
- _ink_ 4y ago
  Huh? Does it matter which instance you join? I don't use it, but thought that it does not matter since every post bubbles to every instance.
  - M2Ys4U 4y ago
    Yes and no... Each instance has a local (instance) timeline and a federated timeline in addition to one's own personal timeline. The local timeline only shows posts from accounts on that instance. The federated timeline shows posts from all accounts followed by at least one user on the instance. So these two timelines can be dramatically different and they're a big factor in account discoverability and the "feel" of an instance. Of course you can go out and follow ~anyone from ~anywhere, and that's the Fediverse's killer feature, but the more local content matters too.
  - gurchik 4y ago
    Because there is no algorithm news feed, finding new people to follow across the whole fediverse can be a challenge. If you instead find an instance that aligns with your interests, you can easily find other people on the same instance by looking at the Local feed. Also it is not 100% true that every post bubbles to every instance because instance admins can blacklist other instances.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- philshem 4y ago
  I just found this site, which indexes instances: https://instances.social https://instances.social (but didn't find anything local or interesting...)
3np 4y ago
(Repost from last time Mastodon was on the front page) There are a multitude of Mastodon-compatible ActivityPub implementations[0][1]. Save for bugs, which devs and maintainers tend to be motivated to work out, they should all federate together, meaning you can follow and share between them. All have instances with open registrations and are also straightforward to self-host. There are moderation tools and admins can set policies for federation; some servers are picky with how they federate, some more free-speech-oriented. Fully unmoderated servers with open registration that try to federate promiscuously tend to get siloed of from the rest fairly quickly. For those of you raising issues with ways in which the AP-speaking fediverse is lacking at this point, many of these points are acknowledged by members and implementers of the community. The biggest one IMO being the same challenge other federated and P2P communication systems (like Matrix) need to solve: DIDs, which should make users less under authority to their server admins, and server owners less under the authority of ICANN and registrars. The second one (which follows DIDs) being more effective models and tools for moderation and curation. If you're actually interested in exploring constructive conversation on how to move forward to where we don't need to rely on centralized authoritarian incumbents and getting a healthier ecosystem, come join in[2][3][4]. [0]: https://fediverse.party/ https://fediverse.party/ [1]: https://fediverse.party/en/miscellaneous/ https://fediverse.party/en/miscellaneous/ [2]: https://codeberg.org/fediverse https://codeberg.org/fediverse [3]: #socialcoding-foundations:matrix.org [4]: https://pad.public.cat/8yNgnlxmSsGYk3TfIau46A?view https://pad.public.cat/8yNgnlxmSsGYk3TfIau46A?view
dokka 4y ago
I rather like mastodon compared to the other implementations of activitypub (Misskey, Friendica and Pleroma). What I'd really like is to build my own activitypub server and client, but it's so hard. I'm going to keep using mastodon for now, but it sucks that the best activitypub implementation is basically a twitter clone. I'd really like something with a layout more like Facebook. Most of the people I try to convert to mastodon don't like twitter. I want to give them Friendica, but it needs a lot of UI work and a nice android client to really be useful to them.
viksit 4y ago
how does mastodon get distribution? a series of decentralised sites lacking distribution and discovery have no incentives for users to join at scale?
- INTPenis 4y ago
  This is where the magic of federation comes in. Each instance can federate with any other instance, meaning posts from the other instance will show up in your local instance's federated timeline. On top of that they can add AP relays that will further add posts to your federated timeline. I run a very small instance focused on geographically local users and the federation is so rapid that I have to scale up my background workers just to process all the URLs people post from across the world.
  - genewitch 4y ago
    is there a place to read up on relays (in general, or specifically misskey to mastodon/plemora)? I'm trying to populate my own server's timeline with stuff that won't scare off people, really.
    - INTPenis 4y ago
      Just search the web for ActivityPub relay, you might add github.com as the site because someone has gathered a list of known AP relays there. But beware that once you start adding relays you'll get a flood of messages in the federated timeline and much of it will be Japanese or other asian languages. Which might scare potential users away. So just silence them one by one, refuse media files from them. People can still follow users on these instances but they won't clutter your federated timeline.
- Normille 4y ago
  >This is where the magic of federation comes in... No. This is where the great misinformation about federated social media comes in. It's painted as being this great decentralised, liberated alternative to Twitter et al "If you don't like the instance you're on, just go elsewhere..." The reality is; you can't take your data elsewhere. There's no way to download your post history from one instance and upload it to another. There's no way to download your post history from one instance and upload it to your own server, if you decide to self-host. The so-called Fediverse is vastly over-hyped. It would be better named the Fragmentiverse.
2Gkashmiri 4y ago
remember people, mastodon runs on activitypub and a lighter alternative to mastodon is pleroma.social which just runs lighter. i installed on a vps some time ago, we are only 3 users as of now but its a big upgrade from being public like in twitter/facebook
Simon_O_Rourke 4y ago
I wonder if my China Weibo account is still up and running? Give it a few months and it may be even more pro free speech than Twitter.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
eriner_ 4y ago
I run one of the larger Mastodon servers in the fediverse, and as far as I know the largest non-cloud hosted Mastodon instance. Here's a ten-post thread I wrote about my experiences scaling this self-hosted instance: https://noagendasocial.com/@eriner/108115547628441425 https://noagendasocial.com/@eriner/108115547628441425 AMA I guess
- platz 4y ago
  hardware scalability isnt the issue, its management/operarions scalability. its being beholden to flaky operators who feud with other operators or end their service.
  - eriner_ 4y ago
    Agreed, running your own node gives you true ownership of your data. Those that can, should. For those that can't, community servers.
- cheesecake_luvr 4y ago
  Is there a way to monetize other than by subscription? $1/y is both too little (for the operator) and too much (for the user) at the same time.
  - eriner_ 4y ago
    Sure, value for value. I could form a business entity, open a PO box, create an <insert payment processor here> account, and accept value from those who use the service. People could pay whatever the service is worth to them. Some are in circumstances such that they're unable to pay. Those with means may be able to contribute more - it's whatever the service is worth to them. Value for value.
danielcid 4y ago
And if you are having a hard time finding accounts there, I have been maintaining this tool: https://search.noc.social/ https://search.noc.social/ to search for accounts across all instances.
akselmo 4y ago
Been using fediverse with mastodon for months now. People are often much nicer, there are actual discussions and trolls are easy to block. Can recommend.
- i5heu 4y ago
  The nicest thing is that you can block (as a normal user) entire instances. Which is very handy since shitty people tend to accumulate on certain instances. Blocking because of bad behaviour is the path to sanity.
cscurmudgeon 4y ago
For all the belly aching in the other thread about "The Algorithm^TM" being immune to open source, here is an example of a fully open-sourced system as an alternative.
CodeArtisan 4y ago
Mastodon became popular in Japan after Twitter banned lolicon and Pixiv[1] decided to start its own Mastodon instance named Pawoo[2]. It had a mobile app and all[3]. Last year, Pixiv stopped supporting the mobile app and transferred the instance to Russel[4]. I haven't followed recently but it seems to be still quite active (Japanese speaking mostly). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixiv https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixiv [2] https://pawoo.net/about https://pawoo.net/about [3] https://archive.ph/H6lz3 https://archive.ph/H6lz3 [4] http://www.russel.co.jp/newsrelease/newsrelease_pawoo.pdf http://www.russel.co.jp/newsrelease/newsrelease_pawoo.pdf
- haunter 4y ago
  >Mastodon became popular in Japan after Twitter banned lolicon I'm not sure CP is a good advert for Mastodon.
  - ranguna 4y ago
    It's not porn, it's just a fantasy drawing with almost no parity to real life except that they look like humans. It took me a while to realise this as well, but in the end, that's what it is. You should never fully compare anime to real life, it's a fallacy that can get you in trouble.
    - ALittleLight 4y ago
      "It's not child pornography, it's drawings of child pornography." This is one area I think Musk will have trouble with if he honestly does go in the "free speech" direction. There will immediately be speech that's so toxic it will drive off the majority of other users.
      - danaris 4y ago
        The defining feature of child pornography is that it includes an actual child. Drawings, animations, and written works that depict fictional children in sexual situations may be quite icky to me, but to claim that they are the same as something depicting an actual living child is to deeply miss the point.
Springtime 4y ago
Maybe I'm still not familiar enough with HN's algorithm but was a bit surprising to see this topic with 180 points in one hour is now on the second page since I last checked about ~15 minutes ago, while others hours older with less points are on the first page.
- robin_reala 4y ago
  There’s an unclear set of factors that can nerf a post. The most normal one is a high comment-to-post-upvote ratio (sign of a flamewar). I assume this triggered one or more of those factors.
mattdesl 4y ago
How does this prevent a single instance growing to massive proportions, and then its property (and private data!) being sold to highest bidder? Those who self-hosted their data will have no problem, but the majority of users aren’t self-hosting, and will lose posts & media upon switching to a new instance (which may lead to the same network effects we see now with Twitter users not willing to migrate).
- rvieira 4y ago
  It doesn't. IMO it's not that different from email. Most people will open an account with a few major players (instances) they trust. Others will self-host or use friends/work/neigbourhood D&D group instances. The rest will be taking a chance.
- i5heu 4y ago
  If a instance I sold, you can just move to another instance while you don’t lose contact to alle the people you follow. There is even a feature which enables you to say “this is my old account, over there is my new one”
  - mattdesl 4y ago
    But, 1) your past media and posts are not migrated to the new instance, so your timeline effectively has to 'start over', and 2) from what I understand the move is not seamless; you must announce your account has moved, and hope that your follow-base is proactive enough to re-follow you on the new account. Since the architecture doesn't prevent take-overs, and requires instances to be continually maintained and upheld by their owners, you might have to do this several times over the years (take-overs, instances shutting down), leaving behind a trail of dead accounts. I presume most users will just end up sticking to a single major instance due to network effects and the desire to avoid these migrations. More concerning is that all of the private data (including direct messages) on the old instance is now in the hands of its new owner, who may have a different idea of what to do with it.
imtemplain 4y ago
temp8428i 4y ago
I felt the obligation to mention that Mastodon is not friendly at all, and you will have to resort to blocking and filtering all the time. For example, there are instances which I won't name that are solely made to harass, doxx and stalk other people. There is also a significant amount of political extremism from both the right and the left, and drama is very prevalent just like on Twitter. You really have to consider that for some, Mastodon is a place to gather if you have been banned from Twitter.
- i5heu 4y ago
  I think mastodons approach is a very good approach. You can as a user block entire instances. And if you are on a good instance many abusive instances are already blocked. So everybody can have their little space without shitty people. Especially because city people tend to accumulate in certain instances since they’re not welcomed on eg. mastodon.social
  - temp8428i 4y ago
    Unfortunately, a lot of instances that block have a double standard where they won't allow nazis but allow anarchism and communism, and all the other ideologies, with people openly promoting harassment towards others. I have not seen an instance that blocks both yet.
    - i5heu 4y ago
      You can always create your own with like minded ppl. Maybe some non political instances are a shot worth. The problem there is that everybody has its own definition of “extreme left” and “extreme right”. So it could be that your preferences are just a bit niche or something like that :)
    - krainboltgreene 4y ago
      That's not a double standard. It's very weird to suggest nazis and anarchists are the same kind of thing.
- 3np 4y ago
DavideNL 4y ago
I just spent 30 minutes trying to figure out how to search/follow people/toots on other instances. I still don't know. Not sure what that says about either the onboarding/ui or perhaps it's just me :-) EDIT: aha, so i see this is not possible (yet): "[FEATURE] Follow public local timelines from other instances" https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/6942 https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/6942
- i5heu 4y ago
  Well.. you can follow people on other instances. Issue 6942 just is about the feed from all people on an instance. Just to make sure.
est 4y ago
Does ActivityPub support static site generators? I want to use it as RSS-like subscription format. Is it well supported?
- i5heu 4y ago
  I have had a look into it, but came not to a final conclusion. It seems possible, but I did not found a comprehensive guide what one would need to do so.

249 points by i5heu 4y ago

For literally anyone who wants to setup a mastodon instance but hasn't yet, read this please: https://ethanzuckerman.com/2017/08/18/mastodon-is-big-in-japan-the-reason-why-is-uncomfortable/ https://ethanzuckerman.com/2017/08/18/mastodon-is-big-in-jap...

geomark 4y ago
That was an eye opener for someone who was thinking of setting up an instance. Obviously there are risks to federating posts from other instances, but I wasn't ready for this.
- 3np 4y ago
  You could start with an allowlist approach; add servers to federation when you see they have content/people you want to connect with. Over time the list will grow. E.g. start with the biggest ones and maybe some that are specific to your interests. Over time you will see people resharing posts and commenting on threads from other instances and you can add those as well. If you run a server for other users you could have an account set up for your users to ping with servers they want you to add.
- SEJeff 4y ago
  Yeah… it’s why I shut mine down fyi. Got tired of fighting that mess that I linked you to.
INTPenis 4y ago
Yeah if you want to make your small instance a bit more federated you'll start adding AP relays and then you'll suddenly see a flood of different asian languages. Probably mostly Japanese. And along with them will come a lot of hentai and weird porn. So when you add like 10 AP relays you'll spend several hours just silencing instances based on this. But once you're done you do get a very active federated timeline that will help your local users discover the rest of the fediverse. I almost ban any misskey instance I see with Japanese characters now, not becasuse they're all bad but because I can't see what the instance is about easily. It requires JS and it has no "About" or "Explore profile directory" section like Mastodon does.

camjohnson26 4y ago

DigitalOcean has a one click app that lets you setup a Mastodon instance ridiculously easily. For my own reasons I’m trying to migrate away from Twitter, and have found it relatively easy to sync Twitter profiles with a self hosted Mastodon instance so I can follow the accounts I’m interested in without directly interacting with Twitter. Configuring email sending and DNS is a little tricky, but if you use namecheap and mail gun it’s not too bad. I routinely on Twitter criticize Musk’s bad behavior and lies about the full self driving product, but semi anonymously since Musk and his fans have a history of doxxing and harassing critics: https://www.inverse.com/article/47461-elon-musk-responds-to-controversy-over-tesla-critic-montana-skeptic https://www.inverse.com/article/47461-elon-musk-responds-to-... His purchase of the platform makes me worried that my identity and private messages could be misused, so any alternative is much appreciated. Unfortunately it looks like Mastodon still hasn’t renamed their “toots” to “posts,” which sadly makes it impossible to recommend to others because there’s no way they’ll take it seriously in the US, due to the double meaning.

JetAlone 4y ago
>Unfortunately it looks like Mastodon still hasn’t renamed their “toots” Maybe we wouldn't have so many reasons to leave twitter if people had taken tweets less seriously in the first place. If everyone knows that artificially short posts with insanely widespread potential reach are all 屁s, that could help fix a lot of what's wrong in our world.
- metamet 4y ago
  I suspect there's a limited number of people who want to be told so explicitly that they're just farting their thoughts out online.
  - rolandog 4y ago
    Well, if we overanalyze everything, the same could be said about the neediness of tweeting birds to get the attention of a possible partner [1]. [1] https://i.imgur.com/Ks17qEJ.png https://i.imgur.com/Ks17qEJ.png

tdhz77 4y ago

I wish I could be happy to use this, but I’m afraid big tech is just too big for me to jump ship. (Network effect) I’m starting to think that Government should think about breaking up social media sites or highly regulate them. The twitter Elon saga makes me think it will be impossible in the United States.

Barrin92 4y ago
>Government should think about breaking up social media sites or highly regulate them they don't need to do anything that drastic. They literally need to do one straight forward thing. Force Twitter to open up their API and let people build a bridge to ActivityPub. Hell Elon could do it if he is serious about decentralization.
- xiphias2 4y ago
  He never really said decentralization, I’m not sure where you read it. He wants to identify people like Facebook does it to get rid of bots. At the same time at least he is greatly incentivised to get rid of car emissions, which is good enough reason for me to side with him instead of other people.
- jfkimmes 4y ago
  The Digital Markets Act [1] was just passed in the EU. It does exactly that. Enforce interoperability for "gatekeepers". I think Twitter is not quite big enough, yet, though. [1]: https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/priorities-2019-2024/europe-fit-digital-age/digital-markets-act-ensuring-fair-and-open-digital-markets_en#what-are-the-benefits-of-the-digital-markets-act https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/priorities-2019-2024/euro...
- mariusor 4y ago
  There are already bridges from twitter to activitypub, however most of the people in the fediverse feel themselves superior to twitter and actively discourage this. If there's a way for twitter to interop with activitypub you will most likely see instances specifically blacklisting it (especially if it becomes a free speech platform). Personally I don't understand why, the negativity and the assholes are already there but maybe in lesser numbers.

fdschoeneman 4y ago

I'm curious to know why there aren't more conservative or libertarian mastodon sites. Seems like a good fit.

aaronbrethorst 4y ago
https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/29/mastodon-issues-30-day-ultimatum-to-trumps-social-network-over-misuse-of-its-code/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/29/mastodon-issues-30-day-ult...
Spellman 4y ago
Most Conservatives have instead gone to platforms that actively advertise for their specific niche. Especially places like Gab and Parlar. Although Telegram has been a very popular gathering place as well. Libertarian Tech folks are actually a small minority in the grand scheme of things, and any I know are definitely in favor of Mastadon. But non-tech folks have a much harder time understanding and building out the platform.
- _ehqz 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - bitstealer 4y ago
- imron 4y ago
  > Especially places like Gab Gab runs on a Mastodon fork: https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2019/07/statement-on-gabs-fork-of-mastodon/ https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2019/07/statement-on-gabs-fork...
  - nextlevelwizard 4y ago
    Could be funny to see how many Mastodon instances have blocked them

andreyk 4y ago

I've used this a bit , but did not stick around due to lack of people i've wanted to follow. Hopefully this will get a lot of people over from Twitter, I'd love to use it instead... Also, if any HN community member would take it on themselves to create an HN instance (yes, some of us on HN like Twitter), would love to join that.

ramyarjahani 4y ago

[flagged]

sjmm1989 4y ago

dotnet00 4y ago
r/Outside is far from sane :p
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
  1. Outside is great though, and quite underrated.
- sjmm1989 4y ago
  That's not 'Outside' though. That's 'r/Outside'. These are very different things. :p Also... of course anything attached to reddit isn't sane. It has humans in it.
lillecarl 4y ago
> "Here's a much better alternative to Twitter. It's called 'Outside'. Try meeting some people in it. They tend to be sane, and friendly. Usually." 1. These are not mutually exclusive 2. Very condescending tone Yes being outside is great, but there are parts of the world where you spend half the year inside because of the cold(outside). There's also been a pandemic going on for quite awhile where in many parts of the world the "outside" has been severely restricted. People outside might not be discussing topics that you're interested in. I'm indifferent to both Mastodon and Twitter, but they both have their place in the world.
- sjmm1989 4y ago
chrisco255 4y ago
Outside is great, but I recommend sticking to some remote nature trails and avoiding people altogether. People are crazy.
INTPenis 4y ago

Abishek_Muthian 4y ago

Folks, What are your recommendations for some Mastodon communities which might be of interest to typical HN audience and are 'absolutely legal'?

sohkamyung 4y ago
For those with an interest in books, try BookWyrm [1]. It's a Mastodon instance that caters for books (think 'federated Goodreads'). I use it to put up my reviews of books and to find new books and bookish people. [1] https://bookwyrm.social/ https://bookwyrm.social/
- gaius_baltar 4y ago
  Beware that Bookwyrm is distributed under the "Anticapitalist software license" [1] so you must be very veyr very careful before using it. It may be actually impossible to legally deploy it for a lot of people. [1] https://github.com/bookwyrm-social/bookwyrm/blob/main/LICENSE.md https://github.com/bookwyrm-social/bookwyrm/blob/main/LICENS...
apetresc 4y ago
I recommend https://fosstodon.org/ https://fosstodon.org/
- themodelplumber 4y ago
  I'm curious, is there any reason to sign up here if one is already on another tech instance?
  - boyter 4y ago
    Its activity pub so no? Assuming they have not blocked either other you should just follow across the peers.
  - 3np 4y ago
    The only reason I see would be if you want your posts to reach people you don't know and who don't follow you; they will end up on the local timeline of the instance you're on. Conversely if you don't want to spend time with setting up relays/subscriptions (which can get you the same thing) and want to easily discover things on the local timeline there, the local GUI helps with that. IMO that Mastodon's timelines work this way by default for non-private instances is unfortunate as it conflates physical infrastructure with social community too much. Other than that it should all be the same. Theoretically you should also be able to set up "relay accounts" on foreign servers that can mirror your profile and just mirror/reshare your content there. It's not something I've seen already so you'd probably have to script your own bot for that.

jerojero 4y ago

I'm in an instance with a couple thousand users, it's not very active. I think network effects are extremely important and eventually you have most people going into the biggest instances anyway. Though obviously this is still a preferable situation, mastodon's reach is still not good enough. People don't just want to say things, they want to say things and have others engage with them. But I mean, I would still encourage at least trying it; exploring different instances, finding a home.

nextlevelwizard 4y ago
Isn't the whole point that you don't need to "explore different instances" since instances talk to each other?
i5heu 4y ago
The accumulation on one instance is not necessary, because there is almost no difference in the user experience between a local use and a Federated user. Also you can cross post to Twitter. This is what I opted to use. Just use the reach from Twitter, but the main thing is mastodon
INTPenis 4y ago
Where do you measure activity? I'm a small instance admin that has chosen to focus only on one particular type of user to grow slowly, and thanks to 10+ AP relays our federated timeline is very active. It does wonders for discoverability to see one message every second show up from all over the world.

refurb 4y ago

To me Twitter is like tabloid journalism - sometimes interesting to read, but lots of garbage. I don't need an alternative. If Twitter goes to crap I'll just stop using it and find something better to do with my time.

wraptile 4y ago

My favorite Mastodon feature is the ability to subscribe to hashtags [1] which makes discovering people to connect with super easy and you don't feel like a victim to some magic algorithm. Another thing I love about it is the small niche little community instances like this photographer [2] community. Themed instances make a huge difference in organizing your social media time - it feels less of a distraction and more of a purposeful exchange. I talk photos, close the browser tab and it feels like I've done what I set out to do, whereas whole purpose of Twitter is to steal your attention for the sake of ad revenue - so you start with a purpose and end up feeling like you've done free work for someone. Like one of those early internet gigs that made you to surf semi-random ads for few pennies. 1 - https://i.imgur.com/gXhLLPG.png https://i.imgur.com/gXhLLPG.png 2 - https://photog.social/ https://photog.social/

brunoqc 4y ago
> My favorite Mastodon feature is the ability to subscribe to hashtags [1] You need to enable "advanced web interface", search for a hashtag, click the top right icon and then pin it, right? I had no idea I could do that. Thanks! EDIT: I'm having a hard time adding tags like "#matrix", it insists on me using autocomplete and propose #matrixdotorg.
- kertoip_1 4y ago
  Ahh, what a disappointment. Being able to subscribe to hashtags is the feature I wanted to see for so long and when I saw the first comment, I thought they did it finally. But no, it's not what I needed. It should not be called "subscribing hashtags", but "pinning" them
  - wraptile 4y ago
    That's what it is tho. You create a time-line filter that shows only posts containing those hashtags - is that not a subscription? There are also more literal implementations for this like SocialHome [1] where you can click + on hashtags you like and public post with them appear in your home timeline 1 - https://socialhome.network/ https://socialhome.network/

unicornporn 4y ago

My recommendation to anyone having difficulties getting started or finding interesting people: try to find a small instance that suits your interests. Mastodon got so much better for me when I left the generalist instances. I now see my instance as a micro community with the ability to connect to a greater community.

_ink_ 4y ago
Huh? Does it matter which instance you join? I don't use it, but thought that it does not matter since every post bubbles to every instance.
- M2Ys4U 4y ago
  Yes and no... Each instance has a local (instance) timeline and a federated timeline in addition to one's own personal timeline. The local timeline only shows posts from accounts on that instance. The federated timeline shows posts from all accounts followed by at least one user on the instance. So these two timelines can be dramatically different and they're a big factor in account discoverability and the "feel" of an instance. Of course you can go out and follow ~anyone from ~anywhere, and that's the Fediverse's killer feature, but the more local content matters too.
- gurchik 4y ago
  Because there is no algorithm news feed, finding new people to follow across the whole fediverse can be a challenge. If you instead find an instance that aligns with your interests, you can easily find other people on the same instance by looking at the Local feed. Also it is not 100% true that every post bubbles to every instance because instance admins can blacklist other instances.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
philshem 4y ago
I just found this site, which indexes instances: https://instances.social https://instances.social (but didn't find anything local or interesting...)

3np 4y ago

(Repost from last time Mastodon was on the front page) There are a multitude of Mastodon-compatible ActivityPub implementations[0][1]. Save for bugs, which devs and maintainers tend to be motivated to work out, they should all federate together, meaning you can follow and share between them. All have instances with open registrations and are also straightforward to self-host. There are moderation tools and admins can set policies for federation; some servers are picky with how they federate, some more free-speech-oriented. Fully unmoderated servers with open registration that try to federate promiscuously tend to get siloed of from the rest fairly quickly. For those of you raising issues with ways in which the AP-speaking fediverse is lacking at this point, many of these points are acknowledged by members and implementers of the community. The biggest one IMO being the same challenge other federated and P2P communication systems (like Matrix) need to solve: DIDs, which should make users less under authority to their server admins, and server owners less under the authority of ICANN and registrars. The second one (which follows DIDs) being more effective models and tools for moderation and curation. If you're actually interested in exploring constructive conversation on how to move forward to where we don't need to rely on centralized authoritarian incumbents and getting a healthier ecosystem, come join in[2][3][4]. [0]: https://fediverse.party/ https://fediverse.party/ [1]: https://fediverse.party/en/miscellaneous/ https://fediverse.party/en/miscellaneous/ [2]: https://codeberg.org/fediverse https://codeberg.org/fediverse [3]: #socialcoding-foundations:matrix.org [4]: https://pad.public.cat/8yNgnlxmSsGYk3TfIau46A?view https://pad.public.cat/8yNgnlxmSsGYk3TfIau46A?view

dokka 4y ago

I rather like mastodon compared to the other implementations of activitypub (Misskey, Friendica and Pleroma). What I'd really like is to build my own activitypub server and client, but it's so hard. I'm going to keep using mastodon for now, but it sucks that the best activitypub implementation is basically a twitter clone. I'd really like something with a layout more like Facebook. Most of the people I try to convert to mastodon don't like twitter. I want to give them Friendica, but it needs a lot of UI work and a nice android client to really be useful to them.

viksit 4y ago

how does mastodon get distribution? a series of decentralised sites lacking distribution and discovery have no incentives for users to join at scale?

INTPenis 4y ago
This is where the magic of federation comes in. Each instance can federate with any other instance, meaning posts from the other instance will show up in your local instance's federated timeline. On top of that they can add AP relays that will further add posts to your federated timeline. I run a very small instance focused on geographically local users and the federation is so rapid that I have to scale up my background workers just to process all the URLs people post from across the world.
- genewitch 4y ago
  is there a place to read up on relays (in general, or specifically misskey to mastodon/plemora)? I'm trying to populate my own server's timeline with stuff that won't scare off people, really.
  - INTPenis 4y ago
    Just search the web for ActivityPub relay, you might add github.com as the site because someone has gathered a list of known AP relays there. But beware that once you start adding relays you'll get a flood of messages in the federated timeline and much of it will be Japanese or other asian languages. Which might scare potential users away. So just silence them one by one, refuse media files from them. People can still follow users on these instances but they won't clutter your federated timeline.
Normille 4y ago
>This is where the magic of federation comes in... No. This is where the great misinformation about federated social media comes in. It's painted as being this great decentralised, liberated alternative to Twitter et al "If you don't like the instance you're on, just go elsewhere..." The reality is; you can't take your data elsewhere. There's no way to download your post history from one instance and upload it to another. There's no way to download your post history from one instance and upload it to your own server, if you decide to self-host. The so-called Fediverse is vastly over-hyped. It would be better named the Fragmentiverse.

2Gkashmiri 4y ago

remember people, mastodon runs on activitypub and a lighter alternative to mastodon is pleroma.social which just runs lighter. i installed on a vps some time ago, we are only 3 users as of now but its a big upgrade from being public like in twitter/facebook

Simon_O_Rourke 4y ago

I wonder if my China Weibo account is still up and running? Give it a few months and it may be even more pro free speech than Twitter.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

eriner_ 4y ago

I run one of the larger Mastodon servers in the fediverse, and as far as I know the largest non-cloud hosted Mastodon instance. Here's a ten-post thread I wrote about my experiences scaling this self-hosted instance: https://noagendasocial.com/@eriner/108115547628441425 https://noagendasocial.com/@eriner/108115547628441425 AMA I guess

platz 4y ago
hardware scalability isnt the issue, its management/operarions scalability. its being beholden to flaky operators who feud with other operators or end their service.
- eriner_ 4y ago
  Agreed, running your own node gives you true ownership of your data. Those that can, should. For those that can't, community servers.
cheesecake_luvr 4y ago
Is there a way to monetize other than by subscription? $1/y is both too little (for the operator) and too much (for the user) at the same time.
- eriner_ 4y ago
  Sure, value for value. I could form a business entity, open a PO box, create an <insert payment processor here> account, and accept value from those who use the service. People could pay whatever the service is worth to them. Some are in circumstances such that they're unable to pay. Those with means may be able to contribute more - it's whatever the service is worth to them. Value for value.

danielcid 4y ago

And if you are having a hard time finding accounts there, I have been maintaining this tool: https://search.noc.social/ https://search.noc.social/ to search for accounts across all instances.

akselmo 4y ago

Been using fediverse with mastodon for months now. People are often much nicer, there are actual discussions and trolls are easy to block. Can recommend.

i5heu 4y ago
The nicest thing is that you can block (as a normal user) entire instances. Which is very handy since shitty people tend to accumulate on certain instances. Blocking because of bad behaviour is the path to sanity.

cscurmudgeon 4y ago

For all the belly aching in the other thread about "The Algorithm^TM" being immune to open source, here is an example of a fully open-sourced system as an alternative.

CodeArtisan 4y ago

Mastodon became popular in Japan after Twitter banned lolicon and Pixiv[1] decided to start its own Mastodon instance named Pawoo[2]. It had a mobile app and all[3]. Last year, Pixiv stopped supporting the mobile app and transferred the instance to Russel[4]. I haven't followed recently but it seems to be still quite active (Japanese speaking mostly). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixiv https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixiv [2] https://pawoo.net/about https://pawoo.net/about [3] https://archive.ph/H6lz3 https://archive.ph/H6lz3 [4] http://www.russel.co.jp/newsrelease/newsrelease_pawoo.pdf http://www.russel.co.jp/newsrelease/newsrelease_pawoo.pdf

haunter 4y ago
>Mastodon became popular in Japan after Twitter banned lolicon I'm not sure CP is a good advert for Mastodon.
- ranguna 4y ago
  It's not porn, it's just a fantasy drawing with almost no parity to real life except that they look like humans. It took me a while to realise this as well, but in the end, that's what it is. You should never fully compare anime to real life, it's a fallacy that can get you in trouble.
  - ALittleLight 4y ago
    "It's not child pornography, it's drawings of child pornography." This is one area I think Musk will have trouble with if he honestly does go in the "free speech" direction. There will immediately be speech that's so toxic it will drive off the majority of other users.
    - danaris 4y ago
      The defining feature of child pornography is that it includes an actual child. Drawings, animations, and written works that depict fictional children in sexual situations may be quite icky to me, but to claim that they are the same as something depicting an actual living child is to deeply miss the point.

Springtime 4y ago

Maybe I'm still not familiar enough with HN's algorithm but was a bit surprising to see this topic with 180 points in one hour is now on the second page since I last checked about ~15 minutes ago, while others hours older with less points are on the first page.

robin_reala 4y ago
There’s an unclear set of factors that can nerf a post. The most normal one is a high comment-to-post-upvote ratio (sign of a flamewar). I assume this triggered one or more of those factors.

mattdesl 4y ago

How does this prevent a single instance growing to massive proportions, and then its property (and private data!) being sold to highest bidder? Those who self-hosted their data will have no problem, but the majority of users aren’t self-hosting, and will lose posts & media upon switching to a new instance (which may lead to the same network effects we see now with Twitter users not willing to migrate).

rvieira 4y ago
It doesn't. IMO it's not that different from email. Most people will open an account with a few major players (instances) they trust. Others will self-host or use friends/work/neigbourhood D&D group instances. The rest will be taking a chance.
i5heu 4y ago
If a instance I sold, you can just move to another instance while you don’t lose contact to alle the people you follow. There is even a feature which enables you to say “this is my old account, over there is my new one”
- mattdesl 4y ago
  But, 1) your past media and posts are not migrated to the new instance, so your timeline effectively has to 'start over', and 2) from what I understand the move is not seamless; you must announce your account has moved, and hope that your follow-base is proactive enough to re-follow you on the new account. Since the architecture doesn't prevent take-overs, and requires instances to be continually maintained and upheld by their owners, you might have to do this several times over the years (take-overs, instances shutting down), leaving behind a trail of dead accounts. I presume most users will just end up sticking to a single major instance due to network effects and the desire to avoid these migrations. More concerning is that all of the private data (including direct messages) on the old instance is now in the hands of its new owner, who may have a different idea of what to do with it.

imtemplain 4y ago

temp8428i 4y ago

I felt the obligation to mention that Mastodon is not friendly at all, and you will have to resort to blocking and filtering all the time. For example, there are instances which I won't name that are solely made to harass, doxx and stalk other people. There is also a significant amount of political extremism from both the right and the left, and drama is very prevalent just like on Twitter. You really have to consider that for some, Mastodon is a place to gather if you have been banned from Twitter.

i5heu 4y ago
I think mastodons approach is a very good approach. You can as a user block entire instances. And if you are on a good instance many abusive instances are already blocked. So everybody can have their little space without shitty people. Especially because city people tend to accumulate in certain instances since they’re not welcomed on eg. mastodon.social
- temp8428i 4y ago
  Unfortunately, a lot of instances that block have a double standard where they won't allow nazis but allow anarchism and communism, and all the other ideologies, with people openly promoting harassment towards others. I have not seen an instance that blocks both yet.
  - i5heu 4y ago
    You can always create your own with like minded ppl. Maybe some non political instances are a shot worth. The problem there is that everybody has its own definition of “extreme left” and “extreme right”. So it could be that your preferences are just a bit niche or something like that :)
  - krainboltgreene 4y ago
    That's not a double standard. It's very weird to suggest nazis and anarchists are the same kind of thing.
3np 4y ago

DavideNL 4y ago

I just spent 30 minutes trying to figure out how to search/follow people/toots on other instances. I still don't know. Not sure what that says about either the onboarding/ui or perhaps it's just me :-) EDIT: aha, so i see this is not possible (yet): "[FEATURE] Follow public local timelines from other instances" https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/6942 https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/6942

i5heu 4y ago
Well.. you can follow people on other instances. Issue 6942 just is about the feed from all people on an instance. Just to make sure.

est 4y ago

Does ActivityPub support static site generators? I want to use it as RSS-like subscription format. Is it well supported?

i5heu 4y ago
I have had a look into it, but came not to a final conclusion. It seems possible, but I did not found a comprehensive guide what one would need to do so.