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Yep, if you are a famous player, it's easier to transition to streaming where you can decide your own hours and make even more money. Likewise, if you can conti

Yep, if you are a famous player, it's easier to transition to streaming where you can decide your own hours and make even more money. Likewise, if you can continue winning and command a high salary you are also incentivized to keep playing rather than stream. An NBA player, warming the bench on a poorest performing team, is still making 1 million dollars/year. The equivalent esports player is probably sharing a house with 4 other guys and eating ramen.

aerostable_slug 5y ago
> The equivalent esports player is probably sharing a house with 4 other guys and eating ramen. Riffing a bit on your point, as best as I can tell, they all pretty much live in team houses or compounds depending upon the country where the team is located — when in China, my relative's then-current team would have lived in dedicated athlete housing that was part of a larger indoor/outdoor multisport stadium complex (COVID changed that and they evacuated to Korea). In the US it's typical to have a large rented team house, often with amenities like a swimming pool. They eat ramen too, but that's because they like it. Efforts are made with team cooks, but what are you going to do, especially given the fact that these are all young people. Balenciaga kicks and 99c bowls of instant noodles do make an odd combo...
- throwaway48375 5y ago
  >Balenciaga kicks and 99c bowls of instant noodles do make an odd combo... I don't know anything about shoes, but I looked up Balenciaga and those have to be some of the ugliest shoes I have ever seen. https://www.balenciaga.com/en-us/defender-sneaker-green-685613W2RA63000.html https://www.balenciaga.com/en-us/defender-sneaker-green-6856...
  - snapcaster 5y ago
    Wow you're right, had heard this brand mentioned in music or pop culture but seeing it is making me feel really out of touch. I wouldn't wear these for free, let alone pay $1000. I guess i just don't understand fashion
  - jcranmer 5y ago
    To be fair, if I go up a level and look at the other sneakers they sell, they do have some models that aren't as ugly as that. Still, nothing I'd want to buy for 1/10th their asking price, though.
    - throwaway48375 5y ago
      Yeah I did pick the worst of the bunch, but in my defense it was the most prominently featured and like you said the others aren't that much better.
bena 5y ago
If you are the lowest paid NBA player, you are still making more than the highest paid eSports player. Johan Sundstein has made just over $7 million over 9 years. Or about $780k per year. No slouch, obviously. But that's under the average yearly salary for the NBA. If you are the best at your position in most sports, you're starting salary negotiations there. This is almost kind of cheating as NBA is one of the highest paying leagues on a per player basis.
- chii 5y ago
  for a fair comparison, you'd have to divide the 7mil take with the total revenue of the entire sport to see a % take of the total pie. A top esports player might take a higher % of the total pie, even though the absolute number is smaller.
  - bena 5y ago
    Why? Choosing to chase after a bigger slice of a smaller pie is still a choice. Especially when you can get more pie by getting a smaller slice of a much bigger pie. We don't compare salaries across companies along the lines of "percentage of total revenue". Getting 200k TC at FAANG is seen as better than getting 75K anywhere else even if that 75k may represent a higher percentage of that company's revenue.
    - Ntrails 5y ago
      I pretty firmly believe the majority of, say, Badminton pros who could have been pro in other more lucrative sports. In the same way you saw eg Magic Pro Tour players switching to poker. I don't hold for a moment that the average pro gamer has the skills to transition to "traditional" sports. So, like, at what level is a choice to grab the smaller pie, vs the choice to focus on a specific skill they do actually have over and above a desk job
      - bena 5y ago
        First, I'd dispute your claim that majority of Badminton pros could go pro in other sports. Definitely some of them, being fast with good hand-eye coordination is going to get you places. But there's a limit. If you can make it in NFL, NBA, MLB, etc, you do. And the true superstars often have the option of multiple sports. Patrick Mahomes was drafted for both the NFL and MLB. Lebron James got tryouts with a couple of teams. Bo Jackson had a professional football career and a professional baseball career concurrently. Football, baseball, rugby, soccer, and basketball all "poach" from the others' sports because athletes gonna athlete. But badminton is already a cousin to tennis. And if you can do well in tennis, you should do that. The only reason to be the best in badminton rather than the best in tennis is some weird obsession. You choose niches when you can't or don't want to compete in the general arena. Second. It's not a choice between eSports and traditional sports. It's a choice between eSports and almost anything else. The goal isn't to play something with sports in the title, the goal is to earn a living. And the best eSports player in the world is getting outearned by mid-level accountants. You could go to college for four years, spend under $40k, get an accounting degree, then go get a job at any accounting firm or in-house at any company, and be earning about $60k a year. And if college isn't for you, you can become an electrician's apprentice. Earn about $40k a year while you learn how to be a fully licensed electrician. Then after 4 years, you get licensed and can double your money. Ideally, you should choose the thing that can provide you a decent living while leveraging your skills and/or talents without overworking you. But eSports doesn't provide a decent living on average. And it overworks everyone. And that kind of ignores that ability and/or skill is only part of it. The people who are currently the best in areas where the money isn't there are only the best of the people who can be bothered to do it. The hypothetical best CounterStrike player possible probably does not even play the game. Because somewhere, early in the sieve, they did the math and realized the effort required to maintain their position was not worth the reward for doing so. And it could have been when they were the best Quake deathmatcher on their dorm floor. They realized they could continue playing or study for midterms. And they chose their midterms because that was going to secure the bag.
tshaddox 5y ago
Wouldn’t it make more sense to compare to professional basketball players who don’t play in the NBA? There are a lot of those, and they tend to get paid way less than $1m a year.
- majani 5y ago
  NBA vs OWL is a fair comparison IMO. Both are a top league of a top game
Semaphor 5y ago
> The equivalent esports player is probably sharing a house with 4 other guys and eating ramen. It’s been a while since I followed eSports (League of Legends in 2011-2014?), but all the US and EU players (after getting kicked in the butt by Asian teams who already did it like that) got people that made sure their players would have healthy lifestyles, eating properly, getting enough exercise etc.

aerostable_slug 5y ago

> The equivalent esports player is probably sharing a house with 4 other guys and eating ramen. Riffing a bit on your point, as best as I can tell, they all pretty much live in team houses or compounds depending upon the country where the team is located — when in China, my relative's then-current team would have lived in dedicated athlete housing that was part of a larger indoor/outdoor multisport stadium complex (COVID changed that and they evacuated to Korea). In the US it's typical to have a large rented team house, often with amenities like a swimming pool. They eat ramen too, but that's because they like it. Efforts are made with team cooks, but what are you going to do, especially given the fact that these are all young people. Balenciaga kicks and 99c bowls of instant noodles do make an odd combo...

throwaway48375 5y ago
>Balenciaga kicks and 99c bowls of instant noodles do make an odd combo... I don't know anything about shoes, but I looked up Balenciaga and those have to be some of the ugliest shoes I have ever seen. https://www.balenciaga.com/en-us/defender-sneaker-green-685613W2RA63000.html https://www.balenciaga.com/en-us/defender-sneaker-green-6856...
- snapcaster 5y ago
  Wow you're right, had heard this brand mentioned in music or pop culture but seeing it is making me feel really out of touch. I wouldn't wear these for free, let alone pay $1000. I guess i just don't understand fashion
- jcranmer 5y ago
  To be fair, if I go up a level and look at the other sneakers they sell, they do have some models that aren't as ugly as that. Still, nothing I'd want to buy for 1/10th their asking price, though.
  - throwaway48375 5y ago
    Yeah I did pick the worst of the bunch, but in my defense it was the most prominently featured and like you said the others aren't that much better.

bena 5y ago

If you are the lowest paid NBA player, you are still making more than the highest paid eSports player. Johan Sundstein has made just over $7 million over 9 years. Or about $780k per year. No slouch, obviously. But that's under the average yearly salary for the NBA. If you are the best at your position in most sports, you're starting salary negotiations there. This is almost kind of cheating as NBA is one of the highest paying leagues on a per player basis.

chii 5y ago
for a fair comparison, you'd have to divide the 7mil take with the total revenue of the entire sport to see a % take of the total pie. A top esports player might take a higher % of the total pie, even though the absolute number is smaller.
- bena 5y ago
  Why? Choosing to chase after a bigger slice of a smaller pie is still a choice. Especially when you can get more pie by getting a smaller slice of a much bigger pie. We don't compare salaries across companies along the lines of "percentage of total revenue". Getting 200k TC at FAANG is seen as better than getting 75K anywhere else even if that 75k may represent a higher percentage of that company's revenue.
  - Ntrails 5y ago
    I pretty firmly believe the majority of, say, Badminton pros who could have been pro in other more lucrative sports. In the same way you saw eg Magic Pro Tour players switching to poker. I don't hold for a moment that the average pro gamer has the skills to transition to "traditional" sports. So, like, at what level is a choice to grab the smaller pie, vs the choice to focus on a specific skill they do actually have over and above a desk job
    - bena 5y ago
      First, I'd dispute your claim that majority of Badminton pros could go pro in other sports. Definitely some of them, being fast with good hand-eye coordination is going to get you places. But there's a limit. If you can make it in NFL, NBA, MLB, etc, you do. And the true superstars often have the option of multiple sports. Patrick Mahomes was drafted for both the NFL and MLB. Lebron James got tryouts with a couple of teams. Bo Jackson had a professional football career and a professional baseball career concurrently. Football, baseball, rugby, soccer, and basketball all "poach" from the others' sports because athletes gonna athlete. But badminton is already a cousin to tennis. And if you can do well in tennis, you should do that. The only reason to be the best in badminton rather than the best in tennis is some weird obsession. You choose niches when you can't or don't want to compete in the general arena. Second. It's not a choice between eSports and traditional sports. It's a choice between eSports and almost anything else. The goal isn't to play something with sports in the title, the goal is to earn a living. And the best eSports player in the world is getting outearned by mid-level accountants. You could go to college for four years, spend under $40k, get an accounting degree, then go get a job at any accounting firm or in-house at any company, and be earning about $60k a year. And if college isn't for you, you can become an electrician's apprentice. Earn about $40k a year while you learn how to be a fully licensed electrician. Then after 4 years, you get licensed and can double your money. Ideally, you should choose the thing that can provide you a decent living while leveraging your skills and/or talents without overworking you. But eSports doesn't provide a decent living on average. And it overworks everyone. And that kind of ignores that ability and/or skill is only part of it. The people who are currently the best in areas where the money isn't there are only the best of the people who can be bothered to do it. The hypothetical best CounterStrike player possible probably does not even play the game. Because somewhere, early in the sieve, they did the math and realized the effort required to maintain their position was not worth the reward for doing so. And it could have been when they were the best Quake deathmatcher on their dorm floor. They realized they could continue playing or study for midterms. And they chose their midterms because that was going to secure the bag.

tshaddox 5y ago

Wouldn’t it make more sense to compare to professional basketball players who don’t play in the NBA? There are a lot of those, and they tend to get paid way less than $1m a year.

majani 5y ago
NBA vs OWL is a fair comparison IMO. Both are a top league of a top game

Semaphor 5y ago

> The equivalent esports player is probably sharing a house with 4 other guys and eating ramen. It’s been a while since I followed eSports (League of Legends in 2011-2014?), but all the US and EU players (after getting kicked in the butt by Asian teams who already did it like that) got people that made sure their players would have healthy lifestyles, eating properly, getting enough exercise etc.