9 ms·

Elon has never said this is what he wants to do with twitter. This is just something people keep assuming.

by natly 4y ago

api 4y ago
He said that moderation is working well if "the most extreme 10% of the left and the right are equally frustrated." That actually kind of mirrors my politics. I think freedom is what you get when every movement, crusade, and ideology simultaneously fails. This isn't nihilism. It's a belief that problems are best solved without force.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > said that moderation is working well if "the most extreme 10% of the left and the right are equally frustrated." The problem occurs when those ten percents use the ensuing outrage to recruit.
  - hef19898 4y ago
    And those 10% are the most vocal and loud ones. So if your platform has those 10% on both sides pissed I don't want to see the results...
    - wtetzner 4y ago
      Maybe the reason they're pissed is that Twitter is downplaying their tweets, making them less loud.
- IgorPartola 4y ago
  Sounds like enlightened centrism to me. Which is itself an ideology.
  - k1ko 4y ago
    I only see that term used by the left as an insult when it is a perfectly reasonable take.
    - IgorPartola 4y ago
      That is two unsubstantiated claims in one sentence :)
- root_axis 4y ago
  That's a totally unquantifiable metric.
- chasd00 4y ago
  > "the most extreme 10% of the left and the right are equally frustrated." yeah that sounds great but the devil is in the details and they have always been. I feel like Musk gets tunnel vision in his thought process. Like he goes "A leads to B, B leads to C, and then C leads to D and done." without contemplating the complexities along the way. It's interesting because he's not naive to business and how things work. He's certainly gotten things done in timelines that people thought impossible and even laughed in his face but other times he has wildly missed.
madeofpalk 4y ago
At the very very terrible TED interview last week: Interviewer: You've described yourself, Elon, as a free speech absolutist, but does that mean that there's literally nothing that people can't say and it's okay? Musk: Well, I think obviously Twitter or any forum is bound by the laws of the country that it operates in. So obviously there are some limitations on free speech in the US, and, of course, Twitter would have to abide by those rules. [...] No, I think, like I said, in my view Twitter should match the laws of the country
- madeofpalk 4y ago
  Just to elaborate on how uneducated these people are on the topic of "free speech" and running something like twitter: Interviewer: Right. So you can't incite people to violence like a direct incitement to violence. You can't do the equivalent of crying fire in a movie theater, for example. Elon Musk: No, that would be a crime. Shouting fire in a crowded movie theatre is not, and never was, illegal. It was an analogy in a court case which was then overturned. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theater https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_the... Interviewer: But here's the challenge, is that it's such a nuanced difference between different things. So there's incitement to violence. That's a no, it's illegal. There's hate speech, which some forms of hate speech are fine. I hate spinach. "I hate spinach" is not hate speech, and importantly, hate speech isn't even illegal.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
    "hate speech isn't even illegal. " Well, in US there are certainly attempts to make it so. There is definitely framework in place and there is the mores. The time seems ripe too given how people seem afraid of what people might say if you let them. There are definitely hate speech laws in other countries. For the record, I am sympathetic to your stance, but I am not sure it is accurate.
    - madeofpalk 4y ago
      My stance is "these people don't know what they're talking about". I'm not actually American, but my understanding is that there have been prior attempts, especially in some US states, to make hate speech illegal, but each time it just gets knocked down because it violates that pesky first amendment. The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that most of what would qualify as hate speech in other western countries is legally protected free speech under the First Amendment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_in_the_United_Stat... Now, if you're saying "All twitter should just follow the laws of the country", now you've got to decide which country?, because most Twitter users are not in the US, and Twitter operatates - has business entities and employees - in other countries apart from US.
SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
I'm quickly discovering that people see in Elon Musk whatever they want. Somehow he's going to both stop freedom of speech suppression AND shit-posting.
- chasd00 4y ago
  he definitely has overly obsessive fans and critics. I suppose it's the perfect recipe for a social media addiction.
jmeister 4y ago
Man, another million comment thread with the same arguments. Of course it can turn into a cesspool. Of course there are ways around that problem. Like allowing more customizability for users. For example: an ‘old Twitter’ filter that would only show content compatible with the old moderation norms. Use your imagination, intelligent tech folks, instead of airing the same hyperventilating opinions.
- strofcon 4y ago
  But what if - and just hear me out here - there are not ways around the fundamental problems of social media platforms as they exist today? I think we've had plenty of years to demonstrate a way to make it work without the toxicity and damage to society, yet we've not done so - even with the most scrutinized platforms in history and the world's most capable software engineers. We are social creatures. Social media is not at all an incarnation of 'society' in which we can function.
stack_framer 4y ago
In his TED interview with Chris Anderson last week, Elon said: "If in doubt, let the speech exist. If it's a gray area, I would say let the Tweet exist. In a case where there's perhaps a lot of controversy, you would not want to necessarily promote that Tweet. I'm not saying I have all the answers here, but I do think that we want to be very reluctant to delete things..." (Seek to about 19:40 in the interview: https://youtu.be/cdZZpaB2kDM https://youtu.be/cdZZpaB2kDM)

Elon has never said this is what he wants to do with twitter. This is just something people keep assuming.

by natly 4y ago

Elon has never said this is what he wants to do with twitter. This is just something people keep assuming.

api 4y ago

He said that moderation is working well if "the most extreme 10% of the left and the right are equally frustrated." That actually kind of mirrors my politics. I think freedom is what you get when every movement, crusade, and ideology simultaneously fails. This isn't nihilism. It's a belief that problems are best solved without force.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> said that moderation is working well if "the most extreme 10% of the left and the right are equally frustrated." The problem occurs when those ten percents use the ensuing outrage to recruit.
- hef19898 4y ago
  And those 10% are the most vocal and loud ones. So if your platform has those 10% on both sides pissed I don't want to see the results...
  - wtetzner 4y ago
    Maybe the reason they're pissed is that Twitter is downplaying their tweets, making them less loud.
IgorPartola 4y ago
Sounds like enlightened centrism to me. Which is itself an ideology.
- k1ko 4y ago
  I only see that term used by the left as an insult when it is a perfectly reasonable take.
  - IgorPartola 4y ago
    That is two unsubstantiated claims in one sentence :)
root_axis 4y ago
That's a totally unquantifiable metric.
chasd00 4y ago
> "the most extreme 10% of the left and the right are equally frustrated." yeah that sounds great but the devil is in the details and they have always been. I feel like Musk gets tunnel vision in his thought process. Like he goes "A leads to B, B leads to C, and then C leads to D and done." without contemplating the complexities along the way. It's interesting because he's not naive to business and how things work. He's certainly gotten things done in timelines that people thought impossible and even laughed in his face but other times he has wildly missed.

madeofpalk 4y ago

At the very very terrible TED interview last week: Interviewer: You've described yourself, Elon, as a free speech absolutist, but does that mean that there's literally nothing that people can't say and it's okay? Musk: Well, I think obviously Twitter or any forum is bound by the laws of the country that it operates in. So obviously there are some limitations on free speech in the US, and, of course, Twitter would have to abide by those rules. [...] No, I think, like I said, in my view Twitter should match the laws of the country

madeofpalk 4y ago
Just to elaborate on how uneducated these people are on the topic of "free speech" and running something like twitter: Interviewer: Right. So you can't incite people to violence like a direct incitement to violence. You can't do the equivalent of crying fire in a movie theater, for example. Elon Musk: No, that would be a crime. Shouting fire in a crowded movie theatre is not, and never was, illegal. It was an analogy in a court case which was then overturned. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theater https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_the... Interviewer: But here's the challenge, is that it's such a nuanced difference between different things. So there's incitement to violence. That's a no, it's illegal. There's hate speech, which some forms of hate speech are fine. I hate spinach. "I hate spinach" is not hate speech, and importantly, hate speech isn't even illegal.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
  "hate speech isn't even illegal. " Well, in US there are certainly attempts to make it so. There is definitely framework in place and there is the mores. The time seems ripe too given how people seem afraid of what people might say if you let them. There are definitely hate speech laws in other countries. For the record, I am sympathetic to your stance, but I am not sure it is accurate.
  - madeofpalk 4y ago
    My stance is "these people don't know what they're talking about". I'm not actually American, but my understanding is that there have been prior attempts, especially in some US states, to make hate speech illegal, but each time it just gets knocked down because it violates that pesky first amendment. The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that most of what would qualify as hate speech in other western countries is legally protected free speech under the First Amendment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_in_the_United_Stat... Now, if you're saying "All twitter should just follow the laws of the country", now you've got to decide which country?, because most Twitter users are not in the US, and Twitter operatates - has business entities and employees - in other countries apart from US.

SketchySeaBeast 4y ago

I'm quickly discovering that people see in Elon Musk whatever they want. Somehow he's going to both stop freedom of speech suppression AND shit-posting.

chasd00 4y ago
he definitely has overly obsessive fans and critics. I suppose it's the perfect recipe for a social media addiction.

jmeister 4y ago

Man, another million comment thread with the same arguments. Of course it can turn into a cesspool. Of course there are ways around that problem. Like allowing more customizability for users. For example: an ‘old Twitter’ filter that would only show content compatible with the old moderation norms. Use your imagination, intelligent tech folks, instead of airing the same hyperventilating opinions.

strofcon 4y ago
But what if - and just hear me out here - there are not ways around the fundamental problems of social media platforms as they exist today? I think we've had plenty of years to demonstrate a way to make it work without the toxicity and damage to society, yet we've not done so - even with the most scrutinized platforms in history and the world's most capable software engineers. We are social creatures. Social media is not at all an incarnation of 'society' in which we can function.

stack_framer 4y ago

In his TED interview with Chris Anderson last week, Elon said: "If in doubt, let the speech exist. If it's a gray area, I would say let the Tweet exist. In a case where there's perhaps a lot of controversy, you would not want to necessarily promote that Tweet. I'm not saying I have all the answers here, but I do think that we want to be very reluctant to delete things..." (Seek to about 19:40 in the interview: https://youtu.be/cdZZpaB2kDM https://youtu.be/cdZZpaB2kDM)