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> Exactly! And in Turkey people get charged with supporting terrorism by tweeting negative stuff about Erdogan. Sadly, not just in Turkey but increasingly in w

> Exactly! And in Turkey people get charged with supporting terrorism by tweeting negative stuff about Erdogan. Sadly, not just in Turkey but increasingly in what you'd consider developed "western" countries. This is concerning. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2021/14/introduction/enacted https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2021/14/introduction/enac... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country Certainly he could retreat from places like Turkey and China. Alas, increasingly there is nowhere left to run. You can be inclined to believe what you want, we can just wait and see what happens no?

kubb 5y ago
> Sadly, not just in Turkey but increasingly in what you'd consider developed "western" countries. This is concerning. Bullsh*t alert! Name one western country that charges people for terrorism for criticizing Erdogan.
- kubb 5y ago
  Every single answer to this has moved the goalpost by the way. Unbelievable.
- namecheapTA 5y ago
  You can get locked up for very mild 'hate speech' in the UK. And I don't even mean hate speech, but posting "I hate these people and this is why", not "violent acts towards so and so!"
- nailer 5y ago
  A Scottish man in the UK was recently charged with saying the only good British soldier is a dead one.
  - kubb 5y ago
    what a legend, what did they charge him with?
    - recuter 5y ago
      https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/31/23004339/uk-twitter-user-sentenced-grossly-offensive-tweet-tom-moore-joseph-kelly https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/31/23004339/uk-twitter-user-... Twitter user sentenced to 150 hours of community service in UK for posting ‘offensive’ tweet
- OrlandoHakim 5y ago
  In Canada, protestors had their bank accounts frozen for saying mean things about Trudeau. It's not exactly the same as your example but it does rhyme.
  - dwater 5y ago
    That is incorrect. ~200 bank accounts were frozen for refusing to follow police orders to clear illegal blockades. Accounts were not frozen for speech, but for unlawful actions.
    - recuter 5y ago
      I am not Canadian and you're going to have to do your own fact checking but here is a post from an MP (whom I know nothing about but can assume you absolutely hate, try to put that aside): https://twitter.com/markstrahl/status/1495472037438967808 https://twitter.com/markstrahl/status/1495472037438967808 Briane is a single mom from Chilliwack working a minimum wage job. She gave $50 to the convoy when it was 100% legal. She hasn’t participated in any other way. Her bank account has now been frozen. I think regardless of your political affiliation freezing bank accounts and invoking emergency powers is controversial for obvious reasons. It is not a good precedent. Try to think ahead to a time when your political opponents are in power.
      - dghlsakjg 5y ago
        There’s more (or less) to that story: https://vancouversun.com/news/politics/mark-strahl-briane-truck-convoy-account-claim https://vancouversun.com/news/politics/mark-strahl-briane-tr... Sworn testimony in parliament makes it seem as if Mr Strahl’s story is either wholly or partially manufactured. No accounts were frozen for donating when the protest was still allowed. Additionally there is no evidence that a person by the name of “Briane” lives in that town, and no one with that name was listed as a donor to the protest.
        recuter 5y ago
        If you read more carefully (I can not stress enough that I am not Canadian, if you ask me the protests were dumb 'etc) that does not at all refute the point I am making. One day Mark Strahl or somebody like him will be in power and the shoe will be on the other foot. If you start banning people you don't like (from twitter, bank accounts, whatever) left and right you will end up in a very dark place by setting that precedent.
- recuter 5y ago
  In England recently there was a teenager that quoted a snoop song on her instagram got threatened with an ankle bracelet and a $1000 fine for using a slur - post was not even directed at anyone in particular but rather in memory of her friend that died in a car crash. Incidentally, Ahmadinejad is quoting 2pac on twitter: https://twitter.com/Ahmadinejad1956/status/1051937106392752129 https://twitter.com/Ahmadinejad1956/status/10519371063927521... Of course this is nothing new, the slippery slope in the UK started over a decade ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_Joke_Trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_Joke_Trial "Crap! Robin Hood airport is closed. You've got a week and a bit to get your shit together otherwise I'm blowing the airport sky high!!" Chambers was arrested by anti-terror police at his office, his house was searched and his mobile phone, laptop and desktop hard drive were confiscated. ..was found guilty at Doncaster Magistrates' Court, fined £385 and ordered to pay £600 costs. As a consequence he lost his job as an administrative and financial supervisor at a car parts company.
  - kubb 5y ago
    if they quoted Erdogan, I might give it to you, but 2Pac is too far removed. not everyone has to know all the lyrics to every rap song to distinguish between participating in pop culture and bomb threats by the way
    - recuter 5y ago
      Two separate cases. The "bomb threat" I quoted here in full, it is right in front of your eyes. Make of it what you will of course. You're welcome to explain to me how a teenager quoting snoop on her instagram is deserving of a court case whether somebody is familiar with the quote or not as opposed to Ahmadinejad quoting 2pac. Or the Taliban being explicitly allowed to stay on the platform for that matter: https://www.mediaite.com/news/twitter-says-taliban-spokesman-will-be-allowed-to-remain-if-he-doesnt-get-too-violent/ https://www.mediaite.com/news/twitter-says-taliban-spokesman...
      - kubb 5y ago
        the case should have been dropped by the prosecutor without going to court, someone was incompetent how do you think this is on par with Turkey consistently persecuting ---dissidents---?
- vincentmarle 5y ago
  It's not being charged with terrorism, but you can go to jail in the Netherlands for insulting the King: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36799639 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36799639 > The Netherlands' lese majeste law dates from 1881 and carries sentences of up to five years jail or a fine of 20,000 euros ($22,200; £16,700).
  - Denvercoder9 5y ago
    That law has been abolished a couple of years ago.
    - kubb 5y ago
      hmm, so actually the amount of free speech is INCREASING? interesting...
    - vincentmarle 5y ago
      > These laws have been abolished as of January 1, 2020. Insulting the King, the Royal Consort, the heir apparent or their consort, or the Regent, is now punishable on the same level as public officials in their official capacity, which adds one third to the maximum severity of the punishment for regular criminalisation of insulting of three months in prison (maximum) and/or a fine. Not really abolished, just a lower punishment.
- rileyphone 5y ago
  No, but allows them to be subjected his goons' violence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clashes_at_the_Turkish_Ambassador%27s_Residence_in_Washington,_D.C https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clashes_at_the_Turkish_Ambassa....
  - kubb 5y ago
    that's your army and police forces failing to protect your citizens from a turkish bodyguard on your own soil. nothing to do with persecuting Erdogan's critics
- jimbokun 5y ago
  Reagan told a variant of this joke: > 'It had to do with an American and a Russian arguing about their two countries,' Reagan said Monday, relating the story he told Gorbachev. 'And the American in the story said, 'I can walk into the Oval Office, I can pound the president's desk, and I can say, Mr. President, I don't like the way you're running our country.' > 'And the Soviet citizen said, 'I can do that.' The American said, 'You can?' He says, 'Yes. I can go into the Kremlin to the general secretary's office, I can pound his desk and say, Mr. General Secretary, I don't like the way President Reagan's running his country.'' https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/11/18/Reagans-jokes-draw-Soviet-frown/2291564210000/ https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/11/18/Reagans-jokes-draw-S...
  - kubb 5y ago
    the only thing that is funny about that joke is that Reagan believed people can just come see the president whenever they want
- vimy 5y ago
  Not terrorism but not a good look for Germany. > The Böhmermann affair (also known as Erdogate[1]) was a political affair following an experimental poem on German satirist Jan Böhmermann's satire show Neo Magazin Royale in late March 2016 that deliberately insulted Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan using profane language. ... After the show was aired on German public television channel ZDFneo, the Turkish government released a verbal note demanding that the German government begin criminal prosecution of Böhmermann. German Chancellor Angela Merkel further escalated the situation by apologizing for Böhmermann's "intentionally hurtful" poem – later she called this "a mistake".[2] On 15 April Merkel announced in a press conference that the German government had approved Böhmermann's criminal prosecution, but would abolish the respective paragraph 103 of the German penal code before 2018. Intense criticism followed the Chancellor's decision, with speculation that she decided to allow the prosecution in order to protect Germany's refugee deal with Turkey.[3] The case was dropped in October 2016 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Böhmermann_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Böhmermann_affair
  - kubb 5y ago
    they actually liberalized this outdated law, so they moved towards more freedom of speech, what's your point?

kubb 5y ago

> Sadly, not just in Turkey but increasingly in what you'd consider developed "western" countries. This is concerning. Bullsh*t alert! Name one western country that charges people for terrorism for criticizing Erdogan.

kubb 5y ago
Every single answer to this has moved the goalpost by the way. Unbelievable.
namecheapTA 5y ago
You can get locked up for very mild 'hate speech' in the UK. And I don't even mean hate speech, but posting "I hate these people and this is why", not "violent acts towards so and so!"
nailer 5y ago
A Scottish man in the UK was recently charged with saying the only good British soldier is a dead one.
- kubb 5y ago
  what a legend, what did they charge him with?
  - recuter 5y ago
    https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/31/23004339/uk-twitter-user-sentenced-grossly-offensive-tweet-tom-moore-joseph-kelly https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/31/23004339/uk-twitter-user-... Twitter user sentenced to 150 hours of community service in UK for posting ‘offensive’ tweet
OrlandoHakim 5y ago
In Canada, protestors had their bank accounts frozen for saying mean things about Trudeau. It's not exactly the same as your example but it does rhyme.
- dwater 5y ago
  That is incorrect. ~200 bank accounts were frozen for refusing to follow police orders to clear illegal blockades. Accounts were not frozen for speech, but for unlawful actions.
  - recuter 5y ago
    I am not Canadian and you're going to have to do your own fact checking but here is a post from an MP (whom I know nothing about but can assume you absolutely hate, try to put that aside): https://twitter.com/markstrahl/status/1495472037438967808 https://twitter.com/markstrahl/status/1495472037438967808 Briane is a single mom from Chilliwack working a minimum wage job. She gave $50 to the convoy when it was 100% legal. She hasn’t participated in any other way. Her bank account has now been frozen. I think regardless of your political affiliation freezing bank accounts and invoking emergency powers is controversial for obvious reasons. It is not a good precedent. Try to think ahead to a time when your political opponents are in power.
    - dghlsakjg 5y ago
      There’s more (or less) to that story: https://vancouversun.com/news/politics/mark-strahl-briane-truck-convoy-account-claim https://vancouversun.com/news/politics/mark-strahl-briane-tr... Sworn testimony in parliament makes it seem as if Mr Strahl’s story is either wholly or partially manufactured. No accounts were frozen for donating when the protest was still allowed. Additionally there is no evidence that a person by the name of “Briane” lives in that town, and no one with that name was listed as a donor to the protest.
      - recuter 5y ago
        If you read more carefully (I can not stress enough that I am not Canadian, if you ask me the protests were dumb 'etc) that does not at all refute the point I am making. One day Mark Strahl or somebody like him will be in power and the shoe will be on the other foot. If you start banning people you don't like (from twitter, bank accounts, whatever) left and right you will end up in a very dark place by setting that precedent.
recuter 5y ago
In England recently there was a teenager that quoted a snoop song on her instagram got threatened with an ankle bracelet and a $1000 fine for using a slur - post was not even directed at anyone in particular but rather in memory of her friend that died in a car crash. Incidentally, Ahmadinejad is quoting 2pac on twitter: https://twitter.com/Ahmadinejad1956/status/1051937106392752129 https://twitter.com/Ahmadinejad1956/status/10519371063927521... Of course this is nothing new, the slippery slope in the UK started over a decade ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_Joke_Trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_Joke_Trial "Crap! Robin Hood airport is closed. You've got a week and a bit to get your shit together otherwise I'm blowing the airport sky high!!" Chambers was arrested by anti-terror police at his office, his house was searched and his mobile phone, laptop and desktop hard drive were confiscated. ..was found guilty at Doncaster Magistrates' Court, fined £385 and ordered to pay £600 costs. As a consequence he lost his job as an administrative and financial supervisor at a car parts company.
- kubb 5y ago
  if they quoted Erdogan, I might give it to you, but 2Pac is too far removed. not everyone has to know all the lyrics to every rap song to distinguish between participating in pop culture and bomb threats by the way
  - recuter 5y ago
    Two separate cases. The "bomb threat" I quoted here in full, it is right in front of your eyes. Make of it what you will of course. You're welcome to explain to me how a teenager quoting snoop on her instagram is deserving of a court case whether somebody is familiar with the quote or not as opposed to Ahmadinejad quoting 2pac. Or the Taliban being explicitly allowed to stay on the platform for that matter: https://www.mediaite.com/news/twitter-says-taliban-spokesman-will-be-allowed-to-remain-if-he-doesnt-get-too-violent/ https://www.mediaite.com/news/twitter-says-taliban-spokesman...
    - kubb 5y ago
      the case should have been dropped by the prosecutor without going to court, someone was incompetent how do you think this is on par with Turkey consistently persecuting ---dissidents---?
vincentmarle 5y ago
It's not being charged with terrorism, but you can go to jail in the Netherlands for insulting the King: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36799639 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36799639 > The Netherlands' lese majeste law dates from 1881 and carries sentences of up to five years jail or a fine of 20,000 euros ($22,200; £16,700).
- Denvercoder9 5y ago
  That law has been abolished a couple of years ago.
  - kubb 5y ago
    hmm, so actually the amount of free speech is INCREASING? interesting...
  - vincentmarle 5y ago
    > These laws have been abolished as of January 1, 2020. Insulting the King, the Royal Consort, the heir apparent or their consort, or the Regent, is now punishable on the same level as public officials in their official capacity, which adds one third to the maximum severity of the punishment for regular criminalisation of insulting of three months in prison (maximum) and/or a fine. Not really abolished, just a lower punishment.
rileyphone 5y ago
No, but allows them to be subjected his goons' violence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clashes_at_the_Turkish_Ambassador%27s_Residence_in_Washington,_D.C https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clashes_at_the_Turkish_Ambassa....
- kubb 5y ago
  that's your army and police forces failing to protect your citizens from a turkish bodyguard on your own soil. nothing to do with persecuting Erdogan's critics
jimbokun 5y ago
Reagan told a variant of this joke: > 'It had to do with an American and a Russian arguing about their two countries,' Reagan said Monday, relating the story he told Gorbachev. 'And the American in the story said, 'I can walk into the Oval Office, I can pound the president's desk, and I can say, Mr. President, I don't like the way you're running our country.' > 'And the Soviet citizen said, 'I can do that.' The American said, 'You can?' He says, 'Yes. I can go into the Kremlin to the general secretary's office, I can pound his desk and say, Mr. General Secretary, I don't like the way President Reagan's running his country.'' https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/11/18/Reagans-jokes-draw-Soviet-frown/2291564210000/ https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/11/18/Reagans-jokes-draw-S...
- kubb 5y ago
  the only thing that is funny about that joke is that Reagan believed people can just come see the president whenever they want
vimy 5y ago
Not terrorism but not a good look for Germany. > The Böhmermann affair (also known as Erdogate[1]) was a political affair following an experimental poem on German satirist Jan Böhmermann's satire show Neo Magazin Royale in late March 2016 that deliberately insulted Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan using profane language. ... After the show was aired on German public television channel ZDFneo, the Turkish government released a verbal note demanding that the German government begin criminal prosecution of Böhmermann. German Chancellor Angela Merkel further escalated the situation by apologizing for Böhmermann's "intentionally hurtful" poem – later she called this "a mistake".[2] On 15 April Merkel announced in a press conference that the German government had approved Böhmermann's criminal prosecution, but would abolish the respective paragraph 103 of the German penal code before 2018. Intense criticism followed the Chancellor's decision, with speculation that she decided to allow the prosecution in order to protect Germany's refugee deal with Turkey.[3] The case was dropped in October 2016 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Böhmermann_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Böhmermann_affair
- kubb 5y ago
  they actually liberalized this outdated law, so they moved towards more freedom of speech, what's your point?